2013 RT Fire, 26 July 2014

[Magdave]

MagDave have you filed a complaint with the NHTSA? I don't know if it will help your case or not but I don't think it would hurt. I filed a complaint after my fire and never heard a word from NHTSA but there is a woman who has actually been contacted by them about her complaint.

Yes I did Ann I mentioned the dripping gas and fire hazard it creates .

"I HAVE HAD THE PREVIOUS RECALL DONE AND THE BIKE IS STILL DRIPPING GAS IN MY GARAGE FROM THE EVAP OVERFLOW LINE ON THE RIGHT SIDE. THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR MONTHS AND THERE ARE MANY REPORTS OF THIS HAPPENING EVEN AFTER THE RECALL INSULATION. IT IS A FIRE HAZARD. *TR "

 

[finless]

Yes I did Ann I mentioned the dripping gas and fire hazard it creates .

Pretty sure I saw yours too Dave about dripping gas in the garage floor. That was one of the better written complaints I saw.

Bob

 

[robmorg]

Dave,

While I have not followed your entire case in your posts, from what you just described, I would say that you are justified in feeling the way you do. After reading your last post, would I be correct to assume that with you it's not just the heat? Are you getting the gas fumes, the boiling gas, and/or the overflowing evaporator canister as well? [I see this is correct - after posting this, I just read your response to Ann.]

If so, and you've tried everything possible, perhaps the time has come to force their hand with a call to NHTSA and by taking some legal action - especially if your Spyder is still under warranty. First, though, I would sit down and have a conversation with the owner of your dealership and explain your feelings. You cannot talk to BRP face to face, but you CAN do that with the dealer, even if you don't necessarily trust them. Tell him/her everything that you just said in that post, and that the last thing you want, is to oppose them litigiously, but you simply don't know where else to go with the problem. If he tells you that the dealership is powerless with BRP, tell him that BRP as advised you of the exact opposite - that you MUST deal with the dealer. Tell him that the reason you requested the meeting is in the hope that they WILL resolve the issues for you so that both of you can avoid the pain and additional expense of litigation. Have this conversation only with the owner, and only in private or with one other person in attendance. No one else will care, and the owner, if he's worth his salt, will understand your point of view - especially if you are gracious about it, insistent, but not raising your voice, etc. If the dealer seems insulted, ask him to put himself in your shoes - what would he do. (From reading your posts for a short time, I think you'll have no problem presenting your story clearly and civilly.)

The owner's response will tell you what you need to do. An attorney would likely recommend taking action against both the dealer and BRP. Find an attorney who will take the case on a contingency basis. Litigation will probably mean that, even if you get resolution, you will have to eventually find a different dealer. But if they back you into a corner, you've got no choice. The status-quo doesn't seem to be working for you.

Good luck with your dilemma.

 

[Dat Guy]

Carlo from BRP contacted me today and asked me to send him info and pics. I had not previously tried to reach them so they obviously monitor this website. I also got a call from the nearest BRP dealer near me (Coyne) with their service rep Kyle asking what happened and if I was ok (which was nice), so I believe they read this site too. Nothing further than that has been done so far.

They are watching this forum and they reached out to me first. That's a good start. We'll see where it goes from there.

 

[robmorg]

I'd say that is a VERY good start.

 

[Dat Guy]

I'll do my best to give them any info I can. I really hope this issue can be identified and fixed before someone else loses their Spyder. I'm already trying to accept the fact that I've probably lost a lot of money on the add-ons I bought for it. Aside from the heat and fumes we did have fun riding it and I spent a lot of time making the Spyder my own. I guess one of the reasons I'm so upset about this is that even though it gave me a lot of problems, at the same time it felt like it was really mine and I was proud of it.

Anyway, I'll post more when I have it to give.

 

[finless]

Carlo from BRP contacted me today and asked me to send him info and pics. I had not previously tried to reach them so they obviously monitor this website. I also got a call from the nearest BRP dealer near me (Coyne) with their service rep Kyle asking what happened and if I was ok (which was nice), so I believe they read this site too. Nothing further than that has been done so far.

They are watching this forum and they reached out to me first. That's a good start. We'll see where it goes from there.

Cool! Glad to hear that! Awesome start!

But have you reported the incident to the NHTSA? I don't see it in the list of user complaints so far.
You might be taken care of but for the better good of others that might be there too, you should.

Bob

 

[Magdave]

But have you reported the incident to the NHTSA? I don't see it in the list of user complaints so far.
You might be taken care of but for the better good of others that might be there too, you should.

Bob

:agree: I agree do it for those of us who have been ignored long enough. :thumbup: I am sure there are double or triple the complaints out there that people do not know how to file with NHTSA.I do not want to be the next one posting pics like yours :yikes:

 

[Magdave]

Dave,

While I have not followed your entire case in your posts, from what you just described, I would say that you are justified in feeling the way you do. After reading your last post, would I be correct to assume that with you it's not just the heat? Are you getting the gas fumes, the boiling gas, and/or the overflowing evaporator canister as well? [I see this is correct - after posting this, I just read your response to Ann.]

If so, and you've tried everything possible, perhaps the time has come to force their hand with a call to NHTSA and by taking some legal action - especially if your Spyder is still under warranty. First, though, I would sit down and have a conversation with the owner of your dealership and explain your feelings. You cannot talk to BRP face to face, but you CAN do that with the dealer, even if you don't necessarily trust them. Tell him/her everything that you just said in that post, and that the last thing you want, is to oppose them litigiously, but you simply don't know where else to go with the problem. If he tells you that the dealership is powerless with BRP, tell him that BRP as advised you of the exact opposite - that you MUST deal with the dealer. Tell him that the reason you requested the meeting is in the hope that they WILL resolve the issues for you so that both of you can avoid the pain and additional expense of litigation. Have this conversation only with the owner, and only in private or with one other person in attendance. No one else will care, and the owner, if he's worth his salt, will understand your point of view - especially if you are gracious about it, insistent, but not raising your voice, etc. If the dealer seems insulted, ask him to put himself in your shoes - what would he do. (From reading your posts for a short time, I think you'll have no problem presenting your story clearly and civilly.)

The owner's response will tell you what you need to do. An attorney would likely recommend taking action against both the dealer and BRP. Find an attorney who will take the case on a contingency basis. Litigation will probably mean that, even if you get resolution, you will have to eventually find a different dealer. But if they back you into a corner, you've got no choice. The status-quo doesn't seem to be working for you.

Good luck with your dilemma.

The owners response to another member here on the forum when he asked if they had "certified" BRP techs and where were their certificates was " I you don't like it here take your bike somewhere else." This was a guy down here in MB from NY I gave him another dealer to go to 2hrs away and he had all kinds off issues he was leaking a qt of oil every 500mi among them and the second dealer treated him right. So how do you think my conversation with the selling dealer would go. I doubt he even informed BRP of my complaints even though the techs said they did.:dontknow: No lemon laws in SC either I just want to ride and feel safe with my wife. We want to go cross country but I will not ride farther than 1hr from a dealer. I really do not know what to do right now. It sure looks pretty sitting in my garage and runs fine below 70deg though. :thumbup:

 

[Jeriatric]

Holding out hope.

The sad reality is. The first thirteens will soon have been on the road one year. BRP offered their fix, which may work for most. It is likely they have made a decision to deal with any further issues on a case by case basis(unless a government agency steps in). In the long run....it's much less costly for them. I say this in part based on how they refused to address RT heat issues and canister overflow problems, pre 2013. Talking RT's here. Not RS' s or even ST's for that matter.

 

[finless]

My bet

I bet something. Dat Guy may get taken care of by BRP but it will be an identical replacement of a 2013 from dealer stock!
Ann's case was so early on the dealer issue of having so many 2013's they may never sell was not thought of then.
Dat Guy has dealers all over this area holding 2013's they may never sell. My bet is this is how it goes down.

Identical replacement! That's my bet.....

Bob

 

[PMK]

Sorry, but I did not read every post. So if this repeats someone or others, I appologize.

BRP may or may not have tested this issue in their Palm Bay test facility. I would hope they have already visited the site or are there now, boiling fuel or whatever and finding a real fix for all.

The ability to test in private, and summer in South Central Florida should be warm enough.

BRP will probably gather facts, remain quiet and let their engineers have meetings and work on the issue. I doubt they will post updates and next you see will be a service bulletin, then maybe a mandatory recall.

The likelyhood of replacing all affected units is nil. A better compliance method is probable. The few burned Spyders being replaced I don't know, but BRP out of pocket is not a lot in the percentage game of dollars. I would suspect the internet is not BRP's friend at the moment, so no doubt they are planning their damage control to some extent. There is nothing left to buy back and sort out from this incident.

Had this happened in city traffic with serious injuries to not only the Spyder and it's rider or riders this would be huge on the news for a bit. That fire was probably intense enough that it would have ruined vehicles around that stationary, possibly setting them on fire also.

All the best with it, and I would possibly not send photos or talk to BRP at this time. First see what insurance will do. My not hurt to bring in a lawyer worthy of all factors. I hate to say it, but if BRP is not willing to learn from their past then give them a glimpse of what the future holds.

PK

 

[PMK]

I bet something. Dat Guy may get taken care of by BRP but it will be an identical replacement of a 2013 from dealer stock!
Ann's case was so early on the dealer issue of having so many 2013's they may never sell was not thought of then.
Dat Guy has dealers all over this area holding 2013's they may never sell. My bet is this is how it goes down.

Identical replacement! That's my bet.....

Bob

Not a smart move, if possible he should get a model or two levels up if possible to help overcome additional loses. As you mentioned their are units out there brand new. This deal though would have me thinking long and hard since the fires still could exist.

PK

 

[Bob Denman]

Careful getting down off that soapbox Bob, you might hurt yourself. Yes unfortunately the whole world is run by greed and the "GOD ALMIGHTY DOLLAR" or Yen-Ruble-wan etc. After Flying all over the world for a major Airline for 35 years I found out it is the same where ever you go no matter what country your in or who you are dealing with. You buy your ticket and you take your chances. I especially like the life time warranties. Most companies are in business a few years and never to be heard from again.

I am 99% sure BRP will not fix this problem but R&D it out of future products. Not all 2013 owners are affected anymore than 2010-2012 years. There are a lot of 2013's on the road with no problems and few complaints. My philosophy is and always has been "make the best with what you've got". Or "Dance with the one you brought".

In all reality, it is cheaper for BRP or any other corporation to stall and settle for pennies on the dollar on the few fires that occur rather than fix the whole fleet. Cost of four RT-S =$100,000 Vs cost of approximately 10,000 2013 RT-S = $250,000,000. Well you can do the math an figure the board decision. I do not like it, you do not like it, but that is pretty much how it is. I have served on several large boards and it is always the bottom line that rules.

Back to the subject at hand, I do feel that BRP will handle each case as it comes whether you or we feel it is fair. I do hope no one is seriously hurt or injured in any of this. If so it would be a turning point for Federal help to assist.

BRP is one of the worlds largest corporations and they got there by being the "Big Company with the Small Heart" as did most large corporations. I worked for one for 35 years.

Somebody help me. I have fallen off the "soap box" and can't get up!

Jack

Hi Jack!
I'm curious... :shocked:
Would you have voluntarily worked harder; for less money? :dontknow:

 

[Vidman]

OldGuy it is unlikely that the remains of his Spyder will tell much. I know mine was even more completely burned than DatGuys.

Anne, please do not take this as an assault on you or your opinion.

I believe they can find the cause of your fire and others.

An example of skills: We lost our house to a fire last July. The insurance company hired a fire investigator for the purpose of hopefully getting another company to help pay for the rebuild. The investigator and the forensic engineer found the cause to be a 40 year old fan. They found two VERY SMALL (emphasis not yelling) wires that had shorted. This fan was total toast and to find this was amazing to me. BTW, a melted Sony Play Station was operated on by the investigator. His skill was like a surgeon. He got down to minuscule wires to determine it was NOT the cause. I was amazed at the skills these people have.

My purpose for posting this is solely to show.....Where there is a will there is a way. I would be surprised that the same investigation techniques were not performed on these fires. Perhaps NHTSA will do them.

A lesson to be learned in this matter......Bigger companies have fallen then BRP. The most recent example is GM and Toyota. Thankfully no one has died in these situations.

 

[robmorg]

The owners response to another member here on the forum when he asked if they had "certified" BRP techs and where were their certificates was " I you don't like it here take your bike somewhere else." This was a guy down here in MB from NY I gave him another dealer to go to 2hrs away and he had all kinds off issues he was leaking a qt of oil every 500mi among them and the second dealer treated him right. So how do you think my conversation with the selling dealer would go. I doubt he even informed BRP of my complaints even though the techs said they did.:dontknow: No lemon laws in SC either I just want to ride and feel safe with my wife. We want to go cross country but I will not ride farther than 1hr from a dealer. I really do not know what to do right now. It sure looks pretty sitting in my garage and runs fine below 70deg though. :thumbup:

Dave,

I'm sure you've given this thing a LOT of thought, and you don't need anyone telling you what to do. So I'm just going to say three more [short] things and then I'll shut up about it - I promise

1. Don't let that the example you cited sway your mind. The fellow probably went in there with a "NY Attitude" (or at least that's the way the dealer saw it), and you KNOW that does not work very well in SC. (Heck, if I owned the shop and some guy implied that my people didn't know crap by asking where their BRP certifications were, I'd have been tempted to throw him out too.)

2. Sounds like you've got an uncaring selling dealer or maybe one with minimum integrity. Either way, he's using people. That's why I said in my earlier post, "even if you don't necessarily trust them". You paid your money. You don't need to put up with that.

3. Every 2013 RT owner has heat problems, but that's as far as it goes with most of us. (I've pretty much resolved mine by throwing a little money at it, as I've just posted in the RT forum.) BUT you've got something else going on that can and should be fixed by BRP. Having paid a lot of money for your 2013 RT, you owe it to yourself to force someone to make it right so that you can enjoy it. You should be able to make that cross-country trip with your wife.
​

Just follow the advice of Larry the Cable Guy... Git-r-Done! :thumbup:

 

[Bob Denman]

"Anne, please do not take this as an assault on you or your opinion.

I believe they can find the cause of your fire and others.

An example of skills: We lost our house to a fire last July. The insurance company hired a fire investigator for the purpose of hopefully getting another company to help pay for the rebuild. The investigator and the forensic engineer found the cause to be a 40 year old fan. They found two VERY SMALL (emphasis not yelling) wires that had shorted. This fan was total toast and to find this was amazing to me. BTW, a melted Sony Play Station was operated on by the investigator. His skill was like a surgeon. He got down to minuscule wires to determine it was NOT the cause. I was amazed at the skills these people have.

My purpose for posting this is solely to show.....Where there is a will there is a way. I would be surprised that the same investigation techniques were not performed on these fires. Perhaps NHTSA will do them.

A lesson to be learned in this matter......Bigger companies have fallen then BRP. The most recent example is GM and Toyota. Thankfully no one has died in these situations."




Where would you have suggested that they start? :dontknow:
I've spoken with arson investigators many times over the years; this would have been a really tough nut to crack... :shocked:
Obviously; not much can be learned by the uninitiated from only two pictures...
The fire started from a central location on the bike, and spread pretty evenly across the combustible surfaces.
But you already knew that!
Investigating a fire in a home is much easier; there simply is a lot more left after the conflagration has been extinguished.

 

[JkRbbt]

Hi Jack!
I'm curious... :shocked:
Would you have voluntarily worked harder; for less money? :dontknow:

I, too, worked for a major air carrier for nearly 30 yrs. I understand Jack's point about major corporations. I think that was his point. What's yours? :dontknow:

 

[Bob Denman]

Careful getting down off that soapbox Bob, you might hurt yourself. Yes unfortunately the whole world is run by greed and the "GOD ALMIGHTY DOLLAR" or Yen-Ruble-wan etc. After Flying all over the world for a major Airline for 35 years I found out it is the same where ever you go no matter what country your in or who you are dealing with. You buy your ticket and you take your chances. I especially like the life time warranties. Most companies are in business a few years and never to be heard from again.

I am 99% sure BRP will not fix this problem but R&D it out of future products. Not all 2013 owners are affected anymore than 2010-2012 years. There are a lot of 2013's on the road with no problems and few complaints. My philosophy is and always has been "make the best with what you've got". Or "Dance with the one you brought".

In all reality, it is cheaper for BRP or any other corporation to stall and settle for pennies on the dollar on the few fires that occur rather than fix the whole fleet. Cost of four RT-S =$100,000 Vs cost of approximately 10,000 2013 RT-S = $250,000,000. Well you can do the math an figure the board decision. I do not like it, you do not like it, but that is pretty much how it is. I have served on several large boards and it is always the bottom line that rules.

Back to the subject at hand, I do feel that BRP will handle each case as it comes whether you or we feel it is fair. I do hope no one is seriously hurt or injured in any of this. If so it would be a turning point for Federal help to assist.

BRP is one of the worlds largest corporations and they got there by being the "Big Company with the Small Heart" as did most large corporations. I worked for one for 35 years.

Somebody help me. I have fallen off the "soap box" and can't get up!

Jack

Please tell me where he made his point; I don't see it. :dontknow:

:lecturef_smilie: If you actually go back and read my original post on the topic; my point is rather clear.

EDIT: PM sent with my post...

 

[Jeriatric]

Why they burn.

"Anne, please do not take this as an assault on you or your opinion.

I believe they can find the cause of your fire and others.

An example of skills: We lost our house to a fire last July. The insurance company hired a fire investigator for the purpose of hopefully getting another company to help pay for the rebuild. The investigator and the forensic engineer found the cause to be a 40 year old fan. They found two VERY SMALL (emphasis not yelling) wires that had shorted. This fan was total toast and to find this was amazing to me. BTW, a melted Sony Play Station was operated on by the investigator. His skill was like a surgeon. He got down to minuscule wires to determine it was NOT the cause. I was amazed at the skills these people have.

My purpose for posting this is solely to show.....Where there is a will there is a way. I would be surprised that the same investigation techniques were not performed on these fires. Perhaps NHTSA will do them.

A lesson to be learned in this matter......Bigger companies have fallen then BRP. The most recent example is GM and Toyota. Thankfully no one has died in these situations."




View attachment 92277View attachment 92278 Where would you have suggested that they start? :dontknow:
I've spoken with arson investigators many times over the years; this would have been a really tough nut to crack... :shocked:
Obviously; not much can be learned by the uninitiated from only two pictures...
The fire started from a central location on the bike, and spread pretty evenly across the combustible surfaces.
But you already knew that!
Investigating a fire in a home is much easier; there simply is a lot more left after the conflagration has been extinguished.

One need not look back any further than Chevy's Corvair to understand why some burn. Design flaws and inadequate ancillary parts.