2013-9 ECM Update: 2013 RT Test Results & Data.

[Dat Guy]

(In light of my current situation, I've edited out a comment I made here months ago.)

 

[3 Wheel Addict]

So getting the ECM update in a CARB state was no problem for you? I know that was a big concern for you in other posts. Based on your findings i'm dumbfounded? Seems like the only improvement was fuel mileage and I bet you would trade that for cooler temps. Thanks for the feedback though we will have to wait to see it others experience the same results??

 

[cuznjohn]

i hate

i hate to be CHICKEN LITTLE with the sky is falling, the sky is falling, BUT with the numbers you posted and the heat on your foot and under the seat, are you sure they updated it

 

[Dat Guy]

I called the dealership a week ago and made sure that we were both looking at the same update before I made the trip. When I inquired about the update being done in California I was told it wouldn't be a problem. I even took the time to speak with the technician today about all of the issues I was having. He was very knowledgeable and friendly but was also aware of all of the problems that were plaguing the 2013 model Spyders. I specifically asked if the update was completed and he said yes, so I guess that takes care of that. Is there any way for me to check and see which version of software I'm currently running?

 

[3 Wheel Addict]

I called the dealership a week ago and made sure that we were both looking at the same update before I made the trip. When I inquired about the update being done in California I was told it wouldn't be a problem. I even took the time to speak with the technician today about all of the issues I was having. He was very knowledgeable and friendly but was also aware of all of the problems that were plaguing the 2013 model Spyders. I specifically asked if the update was completed and he said yes, so I guess that takes care of that. Is there any way for me to check and see which version of software I'm currently running?

Yes go here... http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?62659-New-mapping-for-2013-spyders/page3 and go to my post #52, it explains how to tell if the update got installed but you will need a current BUDS report on your spyder to get that info.

Magdave posted this link on the actual service bulletin.... http://www.spydertechnician.com/dlfi...C%20Update.pdf

 

[Dat Guy]

(In light of my current situation, I've edited out a comment I made here months ago.)

 

[SpyderAnn01]

That is very interesting. Did you take the temperature at the glove box?

 

[Dat Guy]

(In light of my current situation, I've edited out a comment I made here months ago.)

 

[flamingobabe]

25.33 to 33.30 mpg is a big difference....are you measuring the right foot.......my bike since new has been getting 36 to 19 mpg sometimes all in the same day with about the same conditions......starts in morning with best mpg and as the day progresses I get less mpg....I had the update...but have not had time to ride....looking forward to next week when my time is just for riding

 

[hotglue]

Was there a wind today? a cross wind from the left will push a lot of heat out to the right side.???

 

[Jeriatric]

opcorn: Nice move with the probe insde your boot.

I'll be following your post. Hope future heat updates are logged here.

 

[Dat Guy]

Yes, I was measuring the right boot. No matter where I place my foot on the floorboard I feel the heat from the radiator. As for wind, there wasn't any difference between the first trip and the second one.

Also, regarding the boot temps... have a look at this chart. Does this seem safe to you?
http://www.antiscald.com/prevention/general_info/table.php

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Celsius
Temperature[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Fahrenheit
Temperature[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2[SUP]nd[/SUP]Degree
Burn
No
Irreversible
Damage[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[SUP]rd[/SUP]Degree
Burn
Full
Thickness
Injury[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]45°[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]113°[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2 hours[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3 hours[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]47°[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]116.6°[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20 minutes[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]45 minutes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]48°[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]118.4°[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]15 minutes[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]20 minutes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]*49° [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]*120° [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8 minutes [/TD]
[TD="align: center"]10 minutes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]51°[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]124°[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2 minutes[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4.2 minutes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]55°[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]131°[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]17 seconds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]30 seconds[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]60°[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]140°[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3 seconds[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]5 seconds[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


I have taken my boots off before and my right foot was bright red and painful if touched. I think the only reason I haven't been injured yet is because I wear thick boot socks.

 

[Dat Guy]

I just checked my service invoice, the ECM update was definitely done. Duh, I missed it when I looked over it earlier. Too wrapped up in numbers to notice.

Anyway, the invoice says:

Job: 2013-9 Fuse Boxes, ECM Software, Belt Guard (Warranty Job)
Description
PLEASE COMPLETE FACTORY RECALL

Resolution
Done 02/19/14 *Tech Signature*
Update Complete

 

[spacetiger]

I noted the RPM drop riding at 70 mph from 5350 to 5100. Not sure how to account for that ~ 5% drop if you were in the same gear since the gearing is fixed. You can change fuel air ratios and ignition timing with S/W changes and they could help MPG, but it is not clear how those changes affect RPM if no mechanical changes are made.

It sounds like the mpg improved about 32%. ~5% of the improvement is coming from the rpm drop, so the change looks to more in the neighborhood of a 25% improvement. If you were running an A/F ratio about 11.7 ( a bit on the rich side) and you changed it to 14.7 (leaner), then that would be a 25.6% change that could account for the extra heat...

Too bad you didn't have a F/A gauge to know the before/after changes.

Jerry

 

[NancysToy]

Actually, unless it was a calm day, the wind would have made a difference, possibly for both the foot heat and the mpg. The wind is blowing from the exact opposite direction on the return trip. I'd say more testing is in order. The update should not have significantly affected engine coolant temperatures, however. Yours are normal...right where they are controlled by the thermostat. Your foot heat would primarily be the result of the radiator discharge air...which wouldn't vary more than the sum of the change in ambient temperature plus the change in coolant temperature...which is minimal in this case. The update might reduce exhaust temperatures, which would reduce heat under the tupperware and heat radiated from the exhaust pipes near your knees and left foot (and more so the passenger's left foot). Your problem needs to be addressed in another fashion.

 

[spacetiger]

Scotty,

The MPG changed 31.6%, wind would not account for that much of a change but could be a factor. A leaner Air/Fuel ratio could account for mpg improvement and hotter operating temps even with a proper operating thermostat.

But what changes net a reduced rpm without a mechanical change?

Jerry

 

[Rd_Runner]

Change in RPM?

All...here is my two cents for what its worth....

The only thing I can think of to "change" the RPM" due to a software update would be a mod in the software that counts either:
1. the pulses from the crank trigger and thus measures/calculates the engine RPM. This is not likely because that would likely affect MANY things such as fuel curves and ignition curves pretty drastically.

2. Change in software code that measures/calculates ground speed. Again this reading is based upon a trigger input and pulse count algorithm in the software. This is more plausible because the software changes would not affect the fuel and ignition curves greatly (at least no more than the ground speed input is supposed to induce adjustments in the fuel and ignition by design).

It is possible the software change "corrected" a ground speed error problem. Thus you recorded a fairly significant difference in engine RPM in the previous software release on the way to the shop vs. the new release after leaving the shop.

Of course the only way to know for sure would require a BRP engineer to identify the technical changes or modifications in the software code.
opcorn:

If you are interested in checking the accuracy of the speedometer with the new software update you can always do the following: Hook up you trusty GPS, find a flat stretch of road, set the bike cruise control then record your ground speed on your GPS and the digital MPH from the console. I would recommend a freeway or someplace where you can go relatively fast. At low speeds any actual error generated by the electronics of the bike vs. the GPS will be much smaller and thus harder to determine. The faster your "test speed" the greater the difference will generally be between the speedo and the GPS (if you have a speed error in the electronics that is). I trust modern GPSs to provide accurate speed because of their design. A good GPS will lock on 8 or more GPS satellites (the large the number of locked satellites the lower the calculated Position, Velocity and Time error). A good Garmin or equivalent GPS receiver will tell you your position to within 8 - 12 meters. So if your position is accurate, then it has sufficient information to give you an equivalent level of accuracy in the calculated velocity or MPH that it displays.

 

[NancysToy]

Scotty,

The MPG changed 31.6%, wind would not account for that much of a change but could be a factor. A leaner Air/Fuel ratio could account for mpg improvement and hotter operating temps even with a proper operating thermostat.

But what changes net a reduced rpm without a mechanical change?

Jerry

I agree that that is a substantial change in mpg...although I have seen more due to wind. The operating temps are right at the thermostat trip opening point. Coolant temperatures over 220 are not uncommon with the Spyder at those ambient temperatures, so I don't think that few degrees is really significant. At any rate, the increase in radiator discharge air temps should not rise more than the change in ambient plus the increase in water temperature. There are other variables at play and wind or road speed are possible factors.

The rpm change could be due to wind or slightly different average speeds. This is interesting data, but the variables are many and have not been isolated enough to be truly meaningful, IMO.

 

[Pirate looks at --]

Wow

Hi folks. So I had the software update (as well as the other items) completed at the dealership on my Spyder today. Expecting some differences, I made plans in advance and meticulously took data today to see if there really were any changes, and as it turns out, there were. Not what I expected at all though. Here's how things worked out.

Spyder info:
2013 RT SE5 with just over 2000 miles on it. Digital water temp installed for accuracy with exhaust pipes wrapped and heat shield mat installed around fuel tank and body panels. Prior to this modification the heat was intolerable, afterward the heat above the seat and under it was noticeably less, and heat on my right ankle from the exhaust was reduced to comfortable levels. Still suffered from hot toe/foot when riding.

Details:
I live in the California southern desert. The dealership is 108 miles from my home one way. This makes the trip around 1.5 hours each direction. I filled the tank when I left at a Chevron that is .78 miles from my home with 91 fuel, and then filled again at a Mobil gas station that is .32 miles from the dealership with 91 fuel also. When I left the dealership I used the same fuel stations in reverse so that I had a full tank of gas before each trip and traveled the same distance between both locations, being 106.9 miles. I inserted the fuel nozzle a half inch each time and stopped fueling after it shut off automatically. To calculate other averages, I had my phone set to remind me every 15 minutes to check and record data including foot temperature using a digital thermometer with the cord ran down into my right boot with the temperature probe in the toe of my boot, and air temp (using the Weather.com phone app for accuracy, since the temps on the Spyder are way off).

DATA:

Trip to dealership prior to ECM update
Average speed: 70 MPH (cruise control)
Average HWY RPMs: 5350
Average Air Temp: 75°F
Average boot Temp: 124°F
Average Water Temp: 188°F
Refuel: 4.22 Gallons
Miles Per Gallon: 25.33
This data is consistent with previous findings. I have never got better than 26 MPG, and I have tracked fuel consumption since I got the Spyder.


Trip back home after ECM update
Average speed: 70 MPH (cruise control)
Average HWY RPMs: 5100
Average Air Temp: 79°F
Average boot Temp: 162°F
Average Water Temp: 193°F
Refuel: 3.21 Gallons
Miles Per Gallon: 33.30
No noticeable difference in throttle response and acceleration. Heat under the seat was very high during refuel.


Results:
So then, what are the main differences?
Pros: After the update I somehow got just over 33 MPG. That's awesome.
Cons: The blazing hot foot is back. So uncomfortable that on the way back I actually had to hang my foot off the side of the floorboard to cool it off several times, which means the actual boot temp could have been higher. I have a very high pain threshold, but I just couldn't keep my foot there the whole time.


I'm not sure what to think about this. I expected the MPG to drop after the ECM update and the heat to decrease. But surprisingly the opposite occurred. There's obviously been a large improvement in MPG, which I wasn't expecting, and somehow the heat has increased on my foot again, even though the engine water temps were relatively the same. I suspect that I gained MPG due to the slightly richer fuel providing more power and requiring fewer RPMs, but the difference between the two RPM averages seem so small it's hard to believe. I can't explain the heat increase (it wasn't the sun, as I was riding into and away from it both ways). Keep in mind this is data related specifically to my Spyder, and it seems a lot of them are a little different in their own way.

So what do you folks think?

sounds like a really fun ryde:roflblack:

 

[AlEverett]

I had my update on my 2013 RT-S a week ago. I have not kept these type of records but I notice an increase in heat in the glove box and on the seat. Not what I expected. I never had a complaint about heat before and now it does get a little uncomfortable. These are just my impressions so I can't document anything but I was surprised. I'm doing a long >300 mile ride this weekend and I'll check mileage. Used to get about 27/gal but I'm a big guy so that seemed ok. Getting my Cal-Sci windshield installed tomorrow so I'll ask the tech what he's heard about this.