2009 GS SM5, running roughly after oil change - any ideas?

[Jman]

Hello all,

Working on a spyder for my coworker who isn't very mechanically inclined. Bike has been sitting for maybe about a year. (Minnesota weather:gaah When I picked it up from him the battery was dead, replaced it with a brand new battery and noticed check engine light was on. Code-P0520 figured possibly due to needing fresh oil and filter.

Bike idled fine, drove fine, got to operating temp and then pulled her into the garage. Drained oil and refilled following the factory service manual. Went to start up, rough idle and code still hanging in there. Triple checked filter installation, compared to factory before installing so 99% sure that's not the issue. Bought the kit from Bajaron, already have 4Qts in the bike, no level showing on dipstick though. (Not at operating temperature due to only running short periods until problem solved) No leaks so ruled that out.

I've ordered a new OEM oil pressure sensor, anything else to try/test? After some digging here I tried lightly blipping the throttle but was met with misfire? or rougher running conditions.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Navydad]

Vacuum lines? Those smarter than me will weigh in.

 

[Jman]

Don't think I messed with any of those, I removed the airbox cover to inspect air filter but replaced the big line on the right hand side. Pulled spark plugs as well, cleaned and replaced, guess it's possible I bumped something in that process. Not sure how advanced these computers are, but I'd think I'd have another code if that were the case?

 

[BajaRon]

Don't think I messed with any of those, I removed the airbox cover to inspect air filter but replaced the big line on the right hand side. Pulled spark plugs as well, cleaned and replaced, guess it's possible I bumped something in that process. Not sure how advanced these computers are, but I'd think I'd have another code if that were the case?

I'd say that's your problem right there. You don't say how many miles this Spyder has. But the spark plug wires are of very poor quality. If you disturb them at all your Spyder will usually run much worse than it did before the work was done. You need new wires and you should change plugs to an Iridium version. It will start quicker, have better throttle response, and just run better overall.

When you go back in, be sure to change the 2 small vacuum hoses mentioned previously. If they aren't leaking now, they will sooner or later.

You were able to remove the front cylinder spark plug without removing the lower portion of the air box?

 

[Peter Aawen]

For whatever it's worth to you, here's some random thoughties about a few things that might be contributing to this...

Firstly, are you 100% POSITIVE that new battery got at least 8 hours on a proper battery charger BEFORE it's installation?? If not, that might be part of the reason you got thst Check Engine light & the code.... These things are notoriously power hungry and those Spyders with the batteries under the seat are all orone to the Earth cable not securing to the frame all that well, giving you a dodgy earth and rapidly exposing any weakness in the battery's state of charge &/or health - and I've found over many Spyders now that if the battery voltage EVER drops below 12v during the start process & when idling after the start, there's a good chance you'll get cascading Check Engine lighrs, VSS Warnings, and odd codes like P0520....

However, (& secondly ) while that P0520 code is an Engine Oil Pressure Sensor Circuit Malfunction code that often appears if the battery is low on grunt/green steam, my notes (collated from reports here over the years ) also suggest that damaged/chewed wires or loose/damaged connector plugs are amongst the common causes behind this one popping up - any chance you've had rodents of any type chewing at the wires?? :dontknow:

Mind you (thirdly... ) no oil level showing on the dip-stick at all after running for some time when you KNOW there's 4 Qts in there does sorta point at oil either not being picked up &/or circulated properly by the pumps; or maybe it's going somewhere internally that it's not really meant to?! :dontknow:

Then again (& fourthly :shocked: ) the plug wires on those early Spyders are notoriously fragile, so even just touching them, let alone moving them juuust a little while opening the airbox cover could've been enough to damage them sufficiently to cause those idling issues... and it does sound like you did a whole lot more than just touching them.... :gaah: So it's very likely that now, new plug leads are in order, if not new plugs as well!?!

All up, it looks like you may well have found a cascade of problems on this Spyder that all started with a loose wiring connector plug &/or maybe some chewed wires; followed by the string of check engine light (that's often simply a 'catch all' code/warning for anything the system can't really identify properly) & oil pressure sender problems if not actual oil pressure problems, then dodgy plug leads causing the engine to run like a hairy dog with a thorn in its foot; all simply cos you looked at the Spyder too hard after it'd been sitting around untouched for too long!! :gaah:

Spyders that've sat around for a while like that tend to have these sorta issues that cascade/occur one after the other simply cos you finally gave it some attention - after all, they are French-Canadian, so while they're exciting and great things to ride, they are also bloody fickle things too!! :banghead:

Good Luck! :cheers:

 

[Jman]

I'd say that's your problem right there. You don't say how many miles this Spyder has. But the spark plug wires are of very poor quality. If you disturb them at all your Spyder will usually run much worse than it did before the work was done. You need new wires and you should change plugs to an Iridium version. It will start quicker, have better throttle response, and just run better overall.

When you go back in, be sure to change the 2 small vacuum hoses mentioned previously. If they aren't leaking now, they will sooner or later.

You were able to remove the front cylinder spark plug without removing the lower portion of the air box?

It has about 12k miles if I remember correctly, 344hrs. Thought spark plugs were listed on the scheduled maintenance but after going back, they aren't. I just got done going through a V45 Magna, you get pretty good at working in tight spaces.

For whatever it's worth to you, here's some random thoughties about a few things that might be contributing to this...

Firstly, are you 100% POSITIVE that new battery got at least 8 hours on a proper battery charger BEFORE it's installation?? If not, that might be part of the reason you got thst Check Engine light & the code.... These things are notoriously power hungry and those Spyders with the batteries under the seat are all orone to the Earth cable not securing to the frame all that well, giving you a dodgy earth and rapidly exposing any weakness in the battery's state of charge &/or health - and I've found over many Spyders now that if the battery voltage EVER drops below 12v during the start process & when idling after the start, there's a good chance you'll get cascading Check Engine lighrs, VSS Warnings, and odd codes like P0520....

However, (& secondly ) while that P0520 code is an Engine Oil Pressure Sensor Circuit Malfunction code that often appears if the battery is low on grunt/green steam, my notes (collated from reports here over the years ) also suggest that damaged/chewed wires or loose/damaged connector plugs are amongst the common causes behind this one popping up - any chance you've had rodents of any type chewing at the wires?? :dontknow:

Mind you (thirdly... ) no oil level showing on the dip-stick at all after running for some time when you KNOW there's 4 Qts in there does sorta point at oil either not being picked up &/or circulated properly by the pumps; or maybe it's going somewhere internally that it's not really meant to?! :dontknow:

Then again (& fourthly :shocked: ) the plug wires on those early Spyders are notoriously fragile, so even just touching them, let alone moving them juuust a little while opening the airbox cover could've been enough to damage them sufficiently to cause those idling issues... and it does sound like you did a whole lot more than just touching them.... :gaah: So maybe new plug leads are in order, if not new plugs as well?!

All up, it looks like you may well have found a cascade of problems on this Spyder that all started with a loose wiring connector plug &/or maybe some chewed wires; followed by the string of check engine light (that's often simply a 'catch all' code/warning for anything the system can't really identify properly) & oil pressure sender problems if not actual oil pressure problems, then dodgy plug leads causing the engine to run like a hairy dog with a thorn in its foot; all simply cos you looked at the Soyder too hard after it'd been sitting around untouched for too long!! :gaah:

Spyders that've sat around for a while like that tend to have these sorta issues that cascade/occur one after the other simply cos you finally gave it some attention - after all, they are French-Canadian, so while they're exciting and great things to ride, they are also bloody fickle things too!! :banghead:

Good Luck! :cheers:

Battery is definitely fully charged, smart charger kicked into auto maintain before I even shut the lights off for the night. Thought about double checking grounds, but everything else on the bike works perfectly. Not sure where exactly he stores it; but after a quick look-over, nothing obvious.

Regarding the oil, I haven't gotten it to operating temp since oil change. I know according to manual and instructions on the oil tank it says to check at temp. Just figured I'd at least see a low level or something at room/little above temp. :dontknow:

Never thought something so new would be so brittle. I own an 82 Honda and you could just about smack everything on the bike with a hammer and she'd still be happy to wake up and go kick some dust like she just left mother Honda yesterday. :2thumbs:

Just trying to make sure this thing is ready to go for him, he might be road tripping to Texas this summer, so she'll see some good miles. :riding:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I've read all of above .......If that is YEAR old gas and no STABIL (or similar) was in that gas, I'd drain the tank or put in some "HEET" and/or SEAFOAM and see if that helps ..... get the OIL fixed first though .... good luck ... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Peter Aawen]

....
Battery is definitely fully charged, smart charger kicked into auto maintain before I even shut the lights off for the night. Thought about double checking grounds, but everything else on the bike works perfectly. Not sure where exactly he stores it; but after a quick look-over, nothing obvious.

Regarding the oil, I haven't gotten it to operating temp since oil change. I know according to manual and instructions on the oil tank it says to check at temp. Just figured I'd at least see a low level or something at room/little above temp. :dontknow:

......

Hmmm, that bit could be a good sign; or it could be a sign of a battery that has no 'load capacity' left at all (or never had any real under-load cranking capacity! ) such that it's very rapidly picking up just a 12v 'surface charge' that's actually asked to do something/put under load!! This is something that's fairly often seen with batteries that don't see a lot of use, but that do spend a lot of time on a tender that doesn't have any or even a good enough maintenance cycle. Because they never see a good load, they develop a very shallow 'usable voltage' surface charge, sorta like what happens in a bucket that's always got a dribble of highly mineralised water topping it up - the bucket fills up and then continually over-flows at the rate of dribbling top-up while the minerals in the water gradually settle out and solidify in the bottom of the bucket, gradually filling the bucket from the bottom up with a solid lump of rock, but still looking like they're full cos the water's up to the top and dribbling over all the time - ie, the battery is still showing 12 volts plus, but there's no real cranking capacity at that 12 volts! :banghead: And while it's not exactly what you'd call 'common-place', most people are still very surprised at how many brand-new batteries get installed with this 'light surface charge, but no or very little under-load cranking capacity' condition built in ready to ruin your Spyder ryding day!!! :shocked:

So I'd still suggest you get that battery load tested, or at least use a multi-meter to watch what the voltage does during the entire process of starting it. With the older magneto style charge systems these early Spyders have, you should see a voltage of at least about 13v when the battery has been 'resting' for some hours; then for all our Spyders, the battery voltage needs to remain above 12v during the entire starting process, including while the starter is actually cranking and all of the computer systems are flashing up; then it needs to show close to or above 13v while the engine's running at anything over idle after starting, and it should still show above 12v even at idle, pretty much regardless of the load... Many old school vehicles will get away with a battery that might drop as low as 10.5v while actually cranking, and many 'load testers' (devices &/or people) will report on that battery as still being 'good' - but for our Spyders, anything less than 12v is simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH!! They are quite power hungry, and if your battery no longer has (or never had!) the capacity/depth of charge to remain above 12v while your Spyder is going thru it's power-hungry start-up process, then your battery isn't up to the task facing it! :lecturef_smilie:

As for the oil, I too would've expected to see some oil on the dipstick after any running if there's definitely 4 Qts in there.... So there's something odd going on there too, but I reckon you can't do much more than check everything was done correctly during the oil change (you haven't got the wrong filter in there have you? :dontknow: ) then put that aside until you can actually run the engine for long enough to get the oil up to ITS operating temp in order to see what's actually going on with the level... Or until you can't stand not knowing any longer and drain out all the oil you just put in before refilling it again, just to check that you DID put the necessary qty/volume in?! (Do you really need to ask how I KNOW this does actually happen?? pps: )

 

[Freddy]

Do what BajaRon said.

 

[Jman]

Ordered new spark plug wires from Bajaron, spoke with him on the phone. Started the bike again today after getting home, code still there. But seems to run better now:dontknow: let me blip the throttle now without much issue but still didn't seem 100%. Will have to wait for the new wires and see what happens.

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Searched the forum for your P0520 code. There was a cluster of reports of oil pressure switch failure from that 08 and 09 era Spyder. It’s just a switch, not a sensor, per se. The new switch you have on order should solve your code problem. The vacuum lines referenced are on the left side of the throttle body assembly. Two go to the MAP sensor, front and rear. The 09 GS engine also has a 3rd line going to the fuel pressure regulator. Also in that same area. Items 11 and 12. Heat and age kill the Spyder rubber components. Replace them now or replace them later. Not surprised at all that no oil shows on the dipstick when the proper amount is installed with cold oil. It's probably just below the stick. 4 QTS is just under capacity, anyway. That's why the only accurate reading is with the OIL at operating temperature, right after you turn off the engine, with dipstick FULLY screwed in.

 

[Jman]

Searched the forum for your P0520 code. There was a cluster of reports of oil pressure switch failure from that 08 and 09 era Spyder. It’s just a switch, not a sensor, per se. The new switch you have on order should solve your code problem. The vacuum lines referenced are on the left side of the throttle body assembly. Two go to the MAP sensor, front and rear. The 09 GS engine also has a 3rd line going to the fuel pressure regulator. Also in that same area. Items 11 and 12. Heat and age kill the Spyder rubber components. Replace them now or replace them later. Not surprised at all that no oil shows on the dipstick when the proper amount is installed with cold oil. It's probably just below the stick. 4 QTS is just under capacity, anyway. That's why the only accurate reading is with the OIL at operating temperature, right after you turn off the engine, with dipstick FULLY screwed in.

Definitely also saw the reports of the pressure "switch" being faulty from these years. It is under a different part number now, and believe it is actually a different/hopefully improved part.

One thing I noticed going through old fourms is a fair amount of the posters don't come back to say what solved/fixed the issue. :sour: I will be sure to return back and report my findings/solutions for future reference to other riders. :cheers:

 

[Jman]

All parts arrived and I got to work. hyea:

Installed new spark plugs/wires from Bajaron, very nice quality, came quicky and worth the money in my opinion. Definitely an upgrade from the OEM and going to the Iridiums is a smart decision to make if you'll be in there anyways. (Vacuum lines as well.)

New oil pressure switch/sensor installed. $14 part for OEM, very well priced I'd say. Didn't drain all the oil out, just removed lower panel and had a funnel/oil bottle handy and worked perfectly to catch the very little bit that leaked out. P0520 code was gone right when I turned the key on, without even starting the bike.

Now that she ran flawlessly it was time to go warm her up; took her out for a ride and pulled back into the shop; let idle for 1 minute and checked oil level. Tad low, added very little and was good to go. This is Why it is very important to have the oil at temp and check it properly, while cold there was not a level shown.

Everything checks out now, main problems were spark plug wires and oil pressure switch. Had some spare LED bulbs laying around, so decided to throw them in the tail/brake lights. Caused it to throw codes and go into limp home mode.:roflblack: While fun to ride, she's definitely a picky machine.:spyder2:

Thanks to all who pitched in some comments/recommendations. Hopefully this information comes to use to help save some riders money doing it at home instead of the dealership.:cheers:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

All parts arrived and I got to work. hyea:

Installed new spark plugs/wires from Bajaron, very nice quality, came quicky and worth the money in my opinion. Definitely an upgrade from the OEM and going to the Iridiums is a smart decision to make if you'll be in there anyways. (Vacuum lines as well.)

New oil pressure switch/sensor installed. $14 part for OEM, very well priced I'd say. Didn't drain all the oil out, just removed lower panel and had a funnel/oil bottle handy and worked perfectly to catch the very little bit that leaked out. P0520 code was gone right when I turned the key on, without even starting the bike.

Now that she ran flawlessly it was time to go warm her up. Pulled back into the shop, let idle for 1 minute and checked oil level. Tad low, added very little and was good to go. This is Why it is very important to have the oil at temp and check it properly, while cold there was not a level shown.

Everything checks out now, main problems were spark plug wires and oil pressure switch. Had some spare LED bulbs laying around, so decided to throw them in the tail/brake lights. Caused it to throw codes and go into limp home mode.:roflblack: While fun to ride, she's definitely a picky machine.:spyder2:

Thanks to all who pitched in some comments/recommendations. Hopefully this information comes to use to help save some riders money doing it at home instead of the dealership.:cheers:

ONE MINUTE ???? .... No way your engine was up to Temp ..... LED's can cause issues if swapping out from filiment bulbs ,.....Mike :thumbup:

 

[Jman]

ONE MINUTE ???? .... No way your engine was up to Temp ..... LED's can cause issues if swapping out from filiment bulbs ,.....Mike :thumbup:

Sorry, "took her out for a ride and pulled back into the shop." * Should've maybe been more clear, lol.

 

[BajaRon]

All parts arrived and I got to work. hyea:

Installed new spark plugs/wires from Bajaron, very nice quality, came quicky and worth the money in my opinion. Definitely an upgrade from the OEM and going to the Iridiums is a smart decision to make if you'll be in there anyways. (Vacuum lines as well.)

New oil pressure switch/sensor installed. $14 part for OEM, very well priced I'd say. Didn't drain all the oil out, just removed lower panel and had a funnel/oil bottle handy and worked perfectly to catch the very little bit that leaked out. P0520 code was gone right when I turned the key on, without even starting the bike.

Now that she ran flawlessly it was time to go warm her up; took her out for a ride and pulled back into the shop; let idle for 1 minute and checked oil level. Tad low, added very little and was good to go. This is Why it is very important to have the oil at temp and check it properly, while cold there was not a level shown.

Everything checks out now, main problems were spark plug wires and oil pressure switch. Had some spare LED bulbs laying around, so decided to throw them in the tail/brake lights. Caused it to throw codes and go into limp home mode.:roflblack: While fun to ride, she's definitely a picky machine.:spyder2:

Thanks to all who pitched in some comments/recommendations. Hopefully this information comes to use to help save some riders money doing it at home instead of the dealership.:cheers:

AWESOME! Looks like you nailed it. There are some other DIY mods that can make the 998 much less issue prone. As far as lighting (or any electronic add-ons), you'll find the Spyder to be very electrically sensitive. Cut & Splice wiring can give you issues, as well as lighting that is not compatible. Usually, this includes cheap lighting kits. It's well worth the extra money to get lights that are proven compatible with your Spyder. (Don't ask me how I know!)