2009 Front Sprocket - WHAT shape are the teeth on the shaft?

[Gilly]

Good morning all , I have a question about the front sprocket on my 09 GS 990 ES. last time I had it out I noticed a ratcheting sound when down shifting in first and second gear. I adjusted the rear wheel enough to slip the drive belt off. I then realized the teeth on the front sprocket were stripped. My question on is the shaft, WHAT is the shape of the teeth on the shaft. The sprocket will only go on one way, there is a squared off tooth and the rest come to a point . Guess I'm looking to find out if I just need to replace the sprocket or the shaft also. Can't find a good picture of a shaft to compare mine to. I will order a new sprocket for sure... that might help. Thanks for any help. ray:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

Good morning all , I have a question about the front sprocket on my 09 GS 990 ES. last time I had it out I noticed a ratcheting sound when down shifting in first and second gear. I adjusted the rear wheel enough to slip the drive belt off. I then realized the teeth on the front sprocket were stripped. My question on is the shaft, WHAT is the shape of the teeth on the shaft. The sprocket will only go on one way, there is a squared off tooth and the rest come to a point . Guess I'm looking to find out if I just need to replace the sprocket or the shaft also. Can't find a good picture of a shaft to compare mine to. I will order a new sprocket for sure... that might help. Thanks for any help. ray:

A picture is worth a thousand words..... and your explanation is about 925 short :roflblack: ..... At this point a pic is necessary to know exactly what you're dealing with ..... The current issue with sprockets is the RED DUST ( ie.fretting ) this wasn't an issue for Spyders prior to 2015 ( F-3's ) which has now included all Spyders from 17 and up. ..... help us to help you ..... Mike :thumbup:....PS how many miles do you have on your GS???? - and did you ever lower the belt tension from BRP specs???? .....excessive tension will have an effect on both the Belt and the sprockets.

 

[Freddy]

It's been a problem since day 2 as you will now recall BN - reply 24.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...t-blocked-how-to-remove&p=1617226#post1617226

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...n/page3&highlight=Front+Sprocket+BRP+Bulletin

 

[Gilly]

Don't like the looks of the teeth on the shaft Freddy. Looked at the pictures on the other post... wished mine looked that good. Not sure if the pictures I up loaded came in. I think it did work? One tooth is square and the rest come to a point...

 

[Gilly]

I have 20,800 klm's on the bike. The shop put a new rear tire on it last year and all I ever did was adjust the belt to run in the right spot.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

It's been a problem since day 2 as you will now recall BN - reply 24.

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...t-blocked-how-to-remove&p=1617226#post1617226

https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums...n/page3&highlight=Front+Sprocket+BRP+Bulletin

Thanks for your post ..... I didn't mention the fact that in the beginning of the Spyders .... the tension spec was very high, and BRP soon discovered that this was causing sprocket issues, both for tooth wear and shaft damage ..... RED Dust ie.fretting was not an issue at that time ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Freddy]

The tension spec on the pulley bolt was very low, that's why they increased it a couple of times. Red dust was an issue way back then.

A pity about the shaft splines Gilly. It should be replaced really, but at least one pulley, as I recall, has been welded on to avoid the huge cost.

I have over 100,000km on mine. I fitted a new bolt and torqued it to 115ftlb when I got the trike.

 

[Gilly]

Freddy ... welding was a thought - Sprocket and shaft being toast. I've seen the service bulletin reading 81 to 89 ft/lb for the bolt. I will phone the shop today and get a price on parts and labor. I will need to find the NEW belt tension specs also.
I will scare you with a price later. Thank you both for the info. Have a great day and be safe.

 

[Gilly]

Well guys... I called the shop this morning - the sprocket is $173.39; the Shaft with seal is $397.29; The labor is 10 - 12 hours @ $105 per hour; plus any gaskets that are needed. Of course, the engine has to come out. Looking at just over $2200 plus.
The welder is starting to look better and better. I think Freddy you said to put a new sprocket on, then weld it on??? Have to look at all my options.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Well guys... I called the shop this morning - the sprocket is $173.39; the Shaft with seal is $397.29; The labor is 10 - 12 hours @ $105 per hour; plus any gaskets that are needed. Of course, the engine has to come out. Looking at just over $2200 plus.
The welder is starting to look better and better. I think Freddy you said to put a new sprocket on, then weld it on??? Have to look at all my options.

I don't know that it was Freddy who did this, but certainly there have been some reports here on the Forum of this being done, and AFAIK there's been no followup reports of any issues.... :dontknow:

Still, while it certainly does look as tho your Spyder's output shaft has taken a beating & is no longer in good nick, I can but wonder if it might not be a tad smarter to try just fitting a new sprocket first, albeit with the addition of some sort of filler/adhesive/shock resistant material to the mating splines?! :dontknow: . At least that way you stand a chance that it might work & it won't necessarily have forced you straight into an expensive strip down & replace job right off the bat?!? :banghead: . That's always been one of the guidelines I've used for any bush mechanical work &/or dodgying up a fix that I've done (& there's been a lot of that! ) - Always try not to do anything irreversible on your first attempt! :lecturef_smilie:

 

[Freddy]

10 to 12 hours for the job would be a huge challenge even for a brilliant mechanic like me. :yikes:

Mine is not welded as it never had a chance to get loose at the higher torque on a new bolt. Peter's suggestion on new pulley and bolt s worth a try. I would use Loctite 660. Welding is a last resort but it's been done before.

 

[Gilly]

If I bite the bullet and get it done right, I want to make sure it doesn't happen again. Bolt at 115ftlb's and need to find the tension for the belt. (New sprocket $200 tax inc.)
As far as the 10 - 12 hours... that's what I was told.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

If I bite the bullet and get it done right, I want to make sure it doesn't happen again. Bolt at 115ftlb's and need to find the tension for the belt. (New sprocket $200 tax inc.)
As far as the 10 - 12 hours... that's what I was told.

Most folks here have lowered the BRP tension specs by quite a bit ..... early Spyders had a lot of SHAFT damage due to overly high tension .... I lowered mine to 160 lbs. measured with a KritKit II guage ... with the rear wheel on-the-ground ... this is equal to lbs. needed for OFF-the Ground measurements ..... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Piratezz]

My two cents worth, Try a new sprocket first, with a sticky lube (as Peter stated), welding is really a last resort, it would make the next sprocket change a lot harder, even impossible without destroying the oilseals, that would be really expensive.
Find a shop who specialize in gearboxes and shafts, they for sure would know what lube, or material you could use, to spruce up the worn splines, mayby a thin sheet of copper, to fill the gaps.

 

[Freddy]

12 hrs is what the BRP book probably says. I would double it and expect the person doing it to regret they ever got involved.

Over tight belt also caused the driven pulley bearing to flog the bore it fits into, causing it to be loose. This can be checked by grabbing the big pulley at 12 and 6 o'clock and see if wobbles a little, which it should not.

 

[JimH]

Thanks for your post ..... I didn't mention the fact that in the beginning of the Spyders .... the tension spec was very high, and BRP soon discovered that this was causing sprocket issues, both for tooth wear and shaft damage ..... RED Dust ie. fretting was not an issue at that time ..... Mike :thumbup:

I had my Spyder in for service two weeks ago - 2017 F3-Limited. The guy came out and mentioned the dreaded red dust and said the sprockets for 2017 were problematic and mine was ready to fail. I had 20K on it. Once the front sprocket is replaced, does that reliability issue go away, or I am stuck with it since I have a 2017 model?

Thanks in advance for any information.
Jim

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

I had my Spyder in for service two weeks ago - 2017 F3-Limited. The guy came out and mentioned the dreaded red dust and said the sprockets for 2017 were problematic and mine was ready to fail. I had 20K on it. Once the front sprocket is replaced, does that reliability issue go away, or I am stuck with it since I have a 2017 model?

Thanks in advance for any information.
Jim

I try to read every post concerning " Red Dust " .... so far BRP -NEW - WHITE drive pulley was ONLY to fix a Whine sound issue ..... the NEW ones are failing at about the same rate .... F-3's seem to be worse , but it also now effects the newer RT's. .... I have a 14 RT w/ 66,000 mi. and no Red Dust :clap::clap::clap: and I have NO intention of touching it ..... good luck .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Gilly]

Ok guys, my new sprocket was ordered today. If they put an order in today, I could see it Friday. If not ordered until tomorrow, I will see it Tuesday. I was told a bolt and washer comes with the new sprocket . " FINGERS CROSSED "

 

[Gilly]

Freddy ... the big pulley you're talking about, is that the one on the rear wheel? And if so, is it the double row bearing that the pulley rides? If so, I will order it and the seal for it.

 

[Freddy]

Yes. You may need loctite 660 to fix it if it's loose in the bore.