'13 RSS won't start...Help?

[LisaJ]

It started last summer..I went for a ride,turned it off and returned 10 mins later and it wouldn't restart..get all the right dash lights(can't recall if the safety msg came up) ,kill switch was off and would press the brake and nothing.Try a few more times and it started...got to my destination,went to leave a couple hrs later and it did the same thing..putzed around with the cables and all of a sudden it started...When I got home,I got the battery tested and it was on it's way out..Bought a new one and everything was good.

Fast forward to the fall and it did the same thing...I would go to start it by turning the key and it would not show the safety message and go straight to the menu screen.Checked everything,checked the cables which were tight and it started so I thought it was just a wonky cable on the post.
Brought the battery in for the winter (it gets -50 with windchill here) and had the battery on a maintainer.Install it fully charged and again it bypasses the safety message and and won't turn over when I press the brake and press the engine switch and nothing.So I checked my cable/posts again,everything is good and tight.Try it again...wouldn't start then a few tries later and it starts.

I let it sit a week (cold spring) and go to start..same scenario...checked the battery and its at 5volts.Take the battery back(still on warranty) and they do a load test and the battery is good.Bring it back home,fully charged,make sure cables are tight...double and tripled checked and still bypasses safety message screen but goes straight to the display and still won't start.Checked all my fuses/relays..everything looks ok.Take the front cover off find where the + and - cable goes to(from the battery)..put my meter across,read the same as at the battery...-12.74V ..and the connections are tight.

This has me so flustered,it's a SE5 and when I try to start the dash shows it in 1st gear but from what I understand,when it starts ,it slips into neutral..it just won't start!
Anybody have any ideas? It's just so intermittent and I have read almost every "bike won't start" post here just to get some ideas...Just thought I'd ask for advice beffore I have to trailer it to the dealer who is an hr and half away.
Thanks in advance!

 

[SpyderAnn01]

Could be the stator. Had it happen to my 10, same deal had to jump it a few times then changed the battery and it still wouldn’t start.

 

[LisaJ]

Could be the stator. Had it happen to my 10, same deal had to jump it a few times then changed the battery and it still wouldn’t start.

Thanks for the tip..if I take it in,I'll be sure to mentioned that

 

[LisaJ]

Well..replaced the battery..still a no go.. still bypasses startup screen...shows it is in 1st gear.Tried starting it in usual sequence..clicking from the pre-start relay..swapped it out and no change.Checked all the other fuses and relays..Kill switch in right position. Grounds seem to be right. Guess its another trip to the dealer..starting to lose faith with these bikes..especially for only riding it only 2 summers fresh out of the crate and only having 7000 kms on it.Already had to have rear bearings replaced..lol..thought buying new I wouldn't have problems for awhile.

 

[Freddy]

Thanks for the tip..if I take it in,I'll be sure to mentioned that

What did they say?

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

A key piece of information here is that the pre-start relay operates each time you push the start button. That tells you that all of the pre-start conditions are satisfied and the computer wants to start the motor. At this point, it would be a matter of following the power. The pre-start relay provides power to energize the starter solenoid, which in turn then supplies power from the battery to the starter motor. That circuit arrangement is used so that the full starter motor current doesn’t have to pass through the push button. Once you gain access to it, the start solenoid can be quickly checked, or bypassed in order to test the starter motor. Connection tightness can be checked as well.

 

[LisaJ]

Well..out of the blue it started three days later...drove it with no issues and tried it today (over two weeks later)..it had sat for a day and a half and the battery was drained down to 9v..tried a new battery and the original issue came back and it's sitting in the carport waiting to be towed into the dealer when they have an opening.So..still have no clue whats wrong.Not too happy.

 

[LisaJ]

A key piece of information here is that the pre-start relay operates each time you push the start button. That tells you that all of the pre-start conditions are satisfied and the computer wants to start the motor. At this point, it would be a matter of following the power. The pre-start relay provides power to energize the starter solenoid, which in turn then supplies power from the battery to the starter motor. That circuit arrangement is used so that the full starter motor current doesn’t have to pass through the push button. Once you gain access to it, the start solenoid can be quickly checked, or bypassed in order to test the starter motor. Connection tightness can be checked as well.

Hi Doug...thanks for the info!..It did start 3 days later out of the blue..and I rode it for a couple weeks until this morning when the original issue came back..it had sat for a day and ahalf and the new battery was down to 9v..got to talk to the mechanic via a phonecall and he was baffled without taking a look at it.he thought it possibly could be the key..and told me one should,after reinstalling a battery..to insert the key,switch on and off quickly as he had a customer who had the same problem and this fixed it..something about reprogramming the key I think...Unfortunately wasn't a fix for me.So now I have to find a trailer and drive it an hr and half to get them to check it...Thanks again.

 

[stevencovert]

You said you measured the voltage - measure it when the bike is running. Should be 14+ volts. If it is, something seems to be draining the battery. If not, the stator as mentioned usually is the culprit.

I had a 2013 ST that would let the brake switch stick on. I'd walk away not knowing it was on, but that frame is different than yours. Also, maybe somehow the computer isn't shutting off? You know the trick of pulling the key, wait for 30 seconds and try again is let the computer shut down. I don't know what you could check other than something clicking after 20-30 seconds when you shut it down. On my 2016RT there are definite clicks and the lights shut down.

Any aftermarket stuff connected to the battery that could be failed and draining it?

 

[LisaJ]

You said you measured the voltage - measure it when the bike is running. Should be 14+ volts. If it is, something seems to be draining the battery. If not, the stator as mentioned usually is the culprit.

I had a 2013 ST that would let the brake switch stick on. I'd walk away not knowing it was on, but that frame is different than yours. Also, maybe somehow the computer isn't shutting off? You know the trick of pulling the key, wait for 30 seconds and try again is let the computer shut down. I don't know what you could check other than something clicking after 20-30 seconds when you shut it down. On my 2016RT there are definite clicks and the lights shut down.

Any aftermarket stuff connected to the battery that could be failed and draining it?

If I ever get it started again,I will measure the running voltage ..I have had a meter on it and when I turn the key..it drops from 12.6 to about 12.4..then when I press on the brake it goes down about just as much..turning the key takes it to about 12.2 and a relay clicks.Turning the key off,I hear a relay click in about 25 secs and the voltage returns to 12.6.

I tried the trick of pulling the key and there is no change..plus there are no aftermarket electrical accessories on it but yes, I agree..something has to be draining the battery.It's a strange one..seems when the battery is low,it's just like something locks up and doesn't allow it to start again..but then again,it has started a couple three times since this issue started so thats whats so frustrating.If i ever get a booking into the dealer he will prob look at the starter..hopefully thats it.

 

[LisaJ]

A key piece of information here is that the pre-start relay operates each time you push the start button. That tells you that all of the pre-start conditions are satisfied and the computer wants to start the motor. At this point, it would be a matter of following the power. The pre-start relay provides power to energize the starter solenoid, which in turn then supplies power from the battery to the starter motor. That circuit arrangement is used so that the full starter motor current doesn’t have to pass through the push button. Once you gain access to it, the start solenoid can be quickly checked, or bypassed in order to test the starter motor. Connection tightness can be checked as well.

That sounds logical....now I will just have to figure out and find the wiring to each of them and hopefully follow the power (if it's there)..Thanks!

 

[RazzleH]

LisaJ, your frustrating symptoms are pretty identical to mine. Eventually, after proving that all was well with the charging system and battery, it continued to intermittent refuse to start and occasionally stall at traffic light stops. (Now That's a heart starter).

My service centre replaced two solenoids. The first one had been electrically leaking a tiny amount all the time, including while the GS was parked and switched off. The second solenoid, that operates after the first one, was basically worn out. My 2009 now runs perfectly and my confidence has returned.

 

[Freddy]

Gee Razz, it'd be nice to know those part numbers or where/what their function is - please.

 

[LisaJ]

LisaJ, your frustrating symptoms are pretty identical to mine. Eventually, after proving that all was well with the charging system and battery, it continued to intermittent refuse to start and occasionally stall at traffic light stops. (Now That's a heart starter).

My service centre replaced two solenoids. The first one had been electrically leaking a tiny amount all the time, including while the GS was parked and switched off. The second solenoid, that operates after the first one, was basically worn out. My 2009 now runs perfectly and my confidence has returned.

Hi Razzle...I am glad yours is running again..thankyou for sharing your problem..

 

[LisaJ]

Well..after a week and a day in the shop,they installed a new module (I apologise I forget which one) but it didn't solve the issue. Eventually they replaced the DESS module and installed a new ignition switch and I got new keys.It's the second day and it starts, so knocking on wood hoping it keeps doing so. This has certainly decreased my faith in the reliability of these bikes.One year out of the crate and I had to get the rear bearings replaced,the next year (now) with only 7000 kms on it this module thing happens. A trip to the dealer is an hr and half away and I have to bother someone to either use their trailer to transport and then later arrange for ride there so I can go pick it up.It's alot of hassle for a toy thats only used for 3 or 4 months of the year..you would think spending $15k for something brand new that it would actually go thru one summer season without something breaking down on it. I really don't have much faith in planning a long trip anymore..But anyways..thankyou to everyone for their input and advice and happy riding!

 

[jsimonson0]

Well..replaced the battery..still a no go.. still bypasses startup screen...shows it is in 1st gear.Tried starting it in usual sequence..clicking from the pre-start relay..swapped it out and no change.Checked all the other fuses and relays..Kill switch in right position. Grounds seem to be right. Guess its another trip to the dealer..starting to lose faith with these bikes..especially for only riding it only 2 summers fresh out of the crate and only having 7000 kms on it.Already had to have rear bearings replaced..lol..thought buying new I wouldn't have problems for awhile.

When it's in gear, you need to press the brake (not the parking brake) before it will start. What probably happened is the trans eventually reset over time and that's why it started "out of the blue" for you. Either that or during your attempts at debugging the trans got reset to N.

 

[LisaJ]

When it's in gear, you need to press the brake (not the parking brake) before it will start. What probably happened is the trans eventually reset over time and that's why it started "out of the blue" for you. Either that or during your attempts at debugging the trans got reset to N.

Well.I have always attempted starting it with my foot firmly on the brake...even when it was in gear and it wouldn't start.I would manually shift it into neutral with a 13mm wrench and the display would show it in N.