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Is this a Major Electrical Short??? Any suggestions?

My 2012 RT SE5 has gone insane. I came home from a ride, and parked it as usual. It starts and runs, but the transmission does not operate, the windshield control does not operate, the turn signals do not operate, the hi/lo beams do not operate, etc. I've checked the fuses as best I can... none blown. Seems like I have a major electrical short, but I don't know how to isolate it or repair it. My Can Am dealer is reluctant to even diagnose my Spyder because of its age. Any suggestions?
 
That doesn't sound great, and it could well be a short somewhere; but I'd still suggest that your very first step should be to load test your battery, checking to ensure that it has AT LEAST 12 volts under starting load (our Spyders are VERY power hungry, and any less than 12 volt capacity under load in your battery means that you are likely to experience things just like those you describe! :oops:) and while you're there, make sure all of your battery terminals and earth connections are tightly secured onto clean, bright metal (just don't strip the captive nut on the earth point under the seat or break the nut out of its captive position! 😣)

Once you know that your battery is good, you've either resolved the issue (properly charged or got a new battery &/or checked/fixed the charging system ;)) or you've at least got a proper baseline to start troubleshooting from, but until then, you're just wasting your time & maybe money - so do the battery check FIRST! (y)

Good Luck! ;)
 
There is good news and bad news. First the good news, you don’t have a short circuit. Now the bad news, you have an open circuit. Looking at the fuses won’t tell you much if the fuse looks good you still don’t know if it has power to it so you will need a voltmeter for best information. I don’t know anything about the electrical schematic on your RT but looking at the symptoms listed and knowing something about automotive electrical diagnostics it could be the ignition switch circuitry to start the engine is good but other circuits the switch controls are inoperative. It might be good to know if that’s the case. Measuring changes in voltage to those fuses with key off and then key on might be the best and easiest access points. Maybe a bad ignition switch with burned contacts, or maybe a wiring harness connection point. Without a schematic or knowledge about the wiring system it would be nearly impossible if you’re not lucky.
 
That doesn't sound great, and it could well be a short somewhere; but I'd still suggest that your very first step should be to load test your battery, checking to ensure that it has AT LEAST 12 volts under starting load (our Spyders are VERY power hungry, and any less than 12 volt capacity under load in your battery means that you are likely to experience things just like those you describe! :oops:) and while you're there, make sure all of your battery terminals and earth connections are tightly secured onto clean, bright metal (just don't strip the captive nut on the earth point under the seat or break the nut out of its captive position! 😣)

Once you know that your battery is good, you've either resolved the issue (properly charged or got a new battery &/or checked/fixed the charging system ;)) or you've at least got a proper baseline to start troubleshooting from, but until then, you're just wasting your time & maybe money - so do the battery check FIRST! (y)

Good Luck! ;)
I will definitely give those suggestions a try! I've tightened the battery terminal connections, and the battery itself in only about 2 years old. I keep a battery "tender" plugged in through the "cigarette lighter" port in the rear trunk. I unplug it before starting the bike, and it turns over a big sluggishly but does start and run smoothly. If charging the battery, or replacing it would resolve the faults being reported, I'd be very pleased. Thanks for your knowledge and advice!
 
I know about the relays in the frunk, in the same box as many "regular fuses". I'll have to pull them out to test them. Not sure what connections and settings to use on the voltmeter, and not a clue about what readings are good vs bad. Are there any other relays that are somewhere else because these are the only ones I know about? Thanks!
 
There is good news and bad news. First the good news, you don’t have a short circuit. Now the bad news, you have an open circuit. Looking at the fuses won’t tell you much if the fuse looks good you still don’t know if it has power to it so you will need a voltmeter for best information. I don’t know anything about the electrical schematic on your RT but looking at the symptoms listed and knowing something about automotive electrical diagnostics it could be the ignition switch circuitry to start the engine is good but other circuits the switch controls are inoperative. It might be good to know if that’s the case. Measuring changes in voltage to those fuses with key off and then key on might be the best and easiest access points. Maybe a bad ignition switch with burned contacts, or maybe a wiring harness connection point. Without a schematic or knowledge about the wiring system it would be nearly impossible if you’re not lucky.
I don't have a clue about the wiring on my RT. To have a qualified person check out the circuits and such, I'd have to tow it to the nearest Can Am dealer...about 45 miles away. I'll give them a call after I check the battery voltage and strength. Thanks!
 
I will definitely give those suggestions a try! I've tightened the battery terminal connections, and the battery itself is only about 2 years old. I keep a battery "tender" plugged in through the "cigarette lighter" port in the rear trunk. I unplug it before starting the bike, and it turns over a big sluggishly but does start and run smoothly. If charging the battery, or replacing it would resolve the faults being reported, I'd be very pleased. Thanks for your knowledge and advice!

That doesn't necessarily mean your battery still likely to be in good nick, especially if it's always been on a tender!! Is it just a basic 'tender' you've been keeping it on, which likely only keeps it at its present state of charge; or a proper tender/maintainer with multiple cycles, including charge, float, de-sulphate, etc? :unsure: Broadly, in order to avoid getting bogged down in the wide range of options &/or technical detail, it sorta goes like this... Unless the battery has been cycled (charged/discharged) fairly regularly (which a good battery tender/maintainers should do) you may have just killed your battery prematurely thru what you thought was kindness?! 😣

And then when you rode it, how long was that usually for?? Riding for anything less than about 30 minutes wouldn't even put back the charge lost thru starting it, and 'tenders', especially those that're not 'tender/maintainers', aren't really good at 'charging' a battery so much as keeping them at their present state of charge, whatever that might be - which, especially with the magneto charge system on the V-twins, wouldn't necessarily be all that great if you'd just done a short ride, and would gradually get worse if you mainly only do short rides. :rolleyes:

That said, batteries can still be bad or even just 'not great' from the factory, and if it also wasn't properly charged before installation, it's never going to last long. Then add to that your 'I unplug it before starting the bike, and it turns over a big sluggishly but does start' bit and the likely poor state of charge, it sorta suggests that keeping it on a tender all the time like that likely just hid its poor capability as it gradually got worse over time!! If you're not going to ride your Spyder for an extended period of time and you don't have a good tender/maintainer with those multiple modes to keep your battery in good condition, you're best bet is to disconnect it and leave it disconnected until a day or so before you want to ride next, then give it a good charge, at least 8 hours on a proper charger, not a tender! ;)

So, while it still could be other things, like a dud or sticking relay (you don't necessarily need to remove them to do a very basic test, just hold your finger lightly on the main starting fuse when someone operates the key & then starter, feel for the click. ;)) everything you've told us so far suggests that you really need to get your battery properly load tested first, and make sure it can maintain 12 volts even under starting load. You can even take the battery out of the bike & take it somewhere to get that done if you need to, still looking for at least 12 volts, but you won't be able to check the charge system if you do (no real biggie if the battery is dead, but do get it checked once you can start & run the bike!) Only if you do take it out/put it back/install a new battery (properly charged for at least 8 hours before installation, and don't just take the retailer's word for that), be very careful you don't strip/break free that captive nut on the earth under the seat which the pre-2013 Spyders have!! :cautious:

Good Luck! (y)
 
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Personally I hate battery tenders. Most times they give you a false sense your battery will last longer. Your better off putting a switch or disconnecting the battery for long storage, then before riding season put it on a low amp charge before riding season or use your tender to top it off. The tenders constant trickle charge doesn't allow it to discharge and recharge like when your riding.

On to battery, you should be able to take it to a local parts store and have it load tested. Make them do it with a real load tester, not the little computer looking thing. These CAN BUS bikes are really fussy about voltages. And what I used to tell my automotive students was that a short blows fuses and open things don't work. So voltage is looking to do work, if it takes a "short" cut it goes to ground before doing that work. If its open, it has no path to get there. If you learn to use your DVM you may be able to start where the fuse is and go to the plug for whatever item and see if it Ohm checks.
 
I will definitely give those suggestions a try! I've tightened the battery terminal connections, and the battery itself in only about 2 years old. I keep a battery "tender" plugged in through the "cigarette lighter" port in the rear trunk. I unplug it before starting the bike, and it turns over a big sluggishly but does start and run smoothly. If charging the battery, or replacing it would resolve the faults being reported, I'd be very pleased. Thanks for your knowledge and advice!
If I were you, I would get a good pig tail to hook directly to the battery instead of the port your using! It's a lot better connection point, I have had to many GPS using that port having troubles with keeping a good connection with power! I believe your battery's not as charged as you think.
 
That doesn't sound great, and it could well be a short somewhere; but I'd still suggest that your very first step should be to load test your battery, checking to ensure that it has AT LEAST 12 volts under starting load (our Spyders are VERY power hungry, and any less than 12 volt capacity under load in your battery means that you are likely to experience things just like those you describe! :oops:) and while you're there, make sure all of your battery terminals and earth connections are tightly secured onto clean, bright metal (just don't strip the captive nut on the earth point under the seat or break the nut out of its captive position! 😣)

Once you know that your battery is good, you've either resolved the issue (properly charged or got a new battery &/or checked/fixed the charging system ;)) or you've at least got a proper baseline to start troubleshooting from, but until then, you're just wasting your time & maybe money - so do the battery check FIRST! (y)

Good Luck! ;)
I haven't been able to work on the bike much lately because we're having rain - day after day. And since the bike "lives" outdoors, I can only work on the electrical "stuff" when is warm and dry (or cold and dry). I did a voltage check before the rain, and it read 12-13 volts. Eventually, I'll have to remove the battery, and take it to a shop for a totally full charge (and testing). Since mine is a 2012, the battery is in the most inconvenient position imaginable. But I'll get it out and to the shop for a thorough charge! Thanks for bearing with me. I'm undergoing some health/medical stuff right now, so my "free time", when its not raining) is somewhat limited. I appreciate your patience with me... :-)
 
I haven't been able to work on the bike much lately because we're having rain - day after day. And since the bike "lives" outdoors, I can only work on the electrical "stuff" when is warm and dry (or cold and dry). I did a voltage check before the rain, and it read 12-13 volts. Eventually, I'll have to remove the battery, and take it to a shop for a totally full charge (and testing). Since mine is a 2012, the battery is in the most inconvenient position imaginable. But I'll get it out and to the shop for a thorough charge! Thanks for bearing with me. I'm undergoing some health/medical stuff right now, so my "free time", when its not raining) is somewhat limited. I appreciate your patience with me... :-)
If you have a decent volt meter (one that reads to 1/10 or .1 volts) you can test your battery while in the bike. The battery voltage after sitting over night should be more than 12.6 and preferably at 12.8 for a fully charged AGM battery. But the load test voltage should be above 10.5v or even higher when you crank the engine before it starts. If the battery is fully charged at rest and you check it while cranking and it drops below 10.5v. its probably time for a new battery. You may require an assistant to help you with the cranking test because you need to watch for the lowest number when cranking; this is almost instantaneous because its gone once the bike starts. Good luck :)
 
You may require an assistant to help you with the cranking test because you need to watch for the lowest number when cranking; this is almost instantaneous because its gone once the bike starts. Good luck :)
If you twist the grip to full throttle before cranking it shuts off the ignition and you can crank as needed without it starting. The main reason for this is to clear a flooded engine.
 
My 2012 RT SE5 has gone insane. I came home from a ride, and parked it as usual. It starts and runs, but the transmission does not operate, the windshield control does not operate, the turn signals do not operate, the hi/lo beams do not operate, etc. I've checked the fuses as best I can... none blown. Seems like I have a major electrical short, but I don't know how to isolate it or repair it. My Can Am dealer is reluctant to even diagnose my Spyder because of its age. Any suggestions?
I need your considered opinions, please! Since several "faults" occurred within a day or each other, is it possible that the 'electronic brain" burned out, and failed to control anything anymore? I can get CDI-ECU-ECM box recovered from a crashed 2012 RT SE5. Could replacing my present box with this one possibly clear out the plethora of faults, and restore my bike to running condition??? Is swapping these boxes something a lame brain (me) could do, or would it have to go to a Can Am shop?>

I haven't seen the rodent issue mentioned. Not that this IS your problem. But rats can created the kind of chaos that you're describing.
I live in the country, and we have a LOT of feral cats running around, and some even sleep on the Spyder's seat. I think mice and rats would steer clear of this immediate area. :-)
 
I need your considered opinions, please! Since several "faults" occurred within a day or each other, is it possible that the 'electronic brain" burned out, and failed to control anything anymore? I can get CDI-ECU-ECM box recovered from a crashed 2012 RT SE5. Could replacing my present box with this one possibly clear out the plethora of faults, and restore my bike to running condition??? Is swapping these boxes something a lame brain (me) could do, or would it have to go to a Can Am shop?>
First, if you haven't tested relays and looked for bad connections, and based on what I understand to be your symptoms, I would not assume that you have a bad ECM. The ECM is Engine Control Module, and your engine starts and runs. Things like turn signals are not controlled by the ECM. Turn signals a run by the cluster, and there is a big connector to it.

Second, swapping an ECM is not a simple process - you'll need a Service Manual and BUDS.
 
First, if you haven't tested relays and looked for bad connections, and based on what I understand to be your symptoms, I would not assume that you have a bad ECM. The ECM is Engine Control Module, and your engine starts and runs. Things like turn signals are not controlled by the ECM. Turn signals a run by the cluster, and there is a big connector to it.

Second, swapping an ECM is not a simple process - you'll need a Service Manual and BUDS.
I've checked the fuses and relays in the most basic way, but running a full BUDS scan would be ideal. Obviously, I don't have a BUDS module. My "local" Can Am dealer (45 miles away) has the full BUDS set up, and could diagnose the entire system. Depending on the scan results, they either will or won't repair the problems (because the Spyder is a 2012). My secondary problem is getting it there, and getting it back home. AAA will probably tow it up there at no charge because I have the "+RV" coverage, but getting it back home will be a major issue. It won't fit in a normal 5 by 8 trailer. Then there's the price of the repairs (if they're willing to do them). My best chance is a winning lottery ticket... LOL
 
Can you read a wiring diagram? It can be used to help isolate the issue. For example, I've been studying the wiring diagram. There are two main relays. One powers the ECM, fuel pump, and other things needed to start the engine. The other powers the cluster, transmission control module, windshield, and more. If the engine starts and runs and the cluster is active, it suggests that both relays are working. By identifying the failing components on the wiring diagram, you can trace back to try to locate a common point of failure. I would start there, then check fuses and relays in that path first. By "check" I don't mean visually, but electrically with a multimeter and (to test relays) 12V power and test leads. If you or someone local is not able to do that, a dealer is probably your only choice.
 
Can you read a wiring diagram? It can be used to help isolate the issue. For example, I've been studying the wiring diagram. There are two main relays. One powers the ECM, fuel pump, and other things needed to start the engine. The other powers the cluster, transmission control module, windshield, and more. If the engine starts and runs and the cluster is active, it suggests that both relays are working. By identifying the failing components on the wiring diagram, you can trace back to try to locate a common point of failure. I would start there, then check fuses and relays in that path first. By "check" I don't mean visually, but electrically with a multimeter and (to test relays) 12V power and test leads. If you or someone local is not able to do that, a dealer is probably your only choice.
I can read a SIMPLE wiring diagram, but if I actually identified a failing component, I'd have no clue how to repair it. I'm going to do a "relay swap test", and see if I can ID a blown relay that way. I'll pull a relay known to be working, and swap it with a relay labelled as controlling a component that isn't working. If that component works (with the known good relay), I'll continue through the balance of the relays, and see if any of them "come to life" I'll have a couple of brand new relays on hand, and can replace the original known good one with a new one, and so forth until I've checked all the relays. If some components don't work with the old relay or the known good one, I'll figure I have a problem with the components "powered" by that specific relay. I'll let you know the results!
 
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