Sharing performance modifications DATA for the 1330 TR-S

[Dennis in Lodi]

I started the process of dialing in my 1330 Ace motor. This is not about top mph but trying to get Maximum passing performance for a two lane highway situation where you really need all you can get too safely and quickly pass. I have dialed in dozens of racing bikes in my 40 year cycle racing career. In talking with Blue Knight, (the person who won the drags @ Spyder fest this year with a 1330 motor) I concurred the stock air box is the first starting point. I have a local 1/4 mile where I do my testing; I do not watch times but focus on speeds at the finish line.
1. All stock I get 90 mph ish at my test location.

2. All Stock, Modifying the air box with 15 specific 1/2 holes for extra intake air. The bike now lays down about 5 feet of rubber and finished 92 to 93 mph. The faster speed seems mostly from the faster hit and rubber burning off the line.

3. Adding the cat delete, air box mod, with the stock muffler now lays down about 15 feet of rubber off the line. Almost too much traction loss as my best mph is a wash @ 93 mph.
Blocking my air box mod holes, cat delete, stock muffler. Almost no tire spin and basically back to stock times of 90 mph ish.
Step one conclusion, air box modification improves instant acceleration but only gives modest gains through mid-range and top end.
PHASE TWO RESULTS.
4. Two Brothers pipe and cat delete. Total noise with nothing to show for it. Bottom end dies, mid-range suffers and the top end only slightly improves. I thought I just wasted my money. I called tech support @ two brothers. Their pipe is designed to run with the cat in place. They suggest I run it with the PX-1K power tip.

5. Two brothers pipe, air box mod with cat in place. Whole new animal. Power slightly up staring at 3.2k. Huge power gain from 4 to 6 K. There is a little loss of power off the line and almost no tire spin. 96 to 97 mph and still climbing. This is real step in the right direction. The bike is quite down low and not too loud on top. When I block my air box mod holes I lose 2 mph. If I shift the bike down to 4th or 3rd gear in the 40 to 50 mph range it really jumps and pulls. I was stunned with the sound and passing performance improvements. Heads really turn at the new sound. Adding the PX-1K power tip is a wash for speeds but improves low end to the point of about 5 feet of rubber off the line.

6. Two Brothers pipe, PX-1K power tip, CAT Delete, air box modification. This is the future for this bike when the market allows for addressing ECU timing restrictions and fuel management. It can still be fairly quiet down low but gets a little loud for a touring bike on top. This set up really maximizes the triple wail and verifies the 1330 ACE has great performance potential on tap down the road.

 

[Bob Denman]

:clap: Great job of testing and reporting!! :firstplace: :2thumbs:
Even thought it's not part of the 1330; what do you anticipate doing about the need for more traction?

 

[Dennis in Lodi]

Traction seems to be a common complaint for Spyder performance

The Kenda tires hardly qualify for sport traction. I checked the Tire Rack and found a couple of "Summer only" tires with great dry traction ratings. I'm not sure this peice of the puzzle has a good fix. The weight transer to the front when the rear lifts during starting accelleration is the culprit. I have a particular stop sign that crosses a local highway. I always try and lift the front tire of any bike I am driving over the centerline hump in the middle of the road I am crossing. Believe it or not, with my current set up, in 1st gear with a rolling start , at 5K rpm I can lift the front end about 6"over this hump. So moving traction isn't the problem, it's that cart in front of the horse issue that has to be solved.
Thanks

:clap: Great job of testing and reporting!! :firstplace: :2thumbs:
Even thought it's not part of the 1330; what do you anticipate doing about the need for more traction?

 

[TexAmRider]

how about some video wit audio to hear the sound?

Dennis, would love to hear the sound. video would be nice too!

thks, RT

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

DIS-CLAIMER

I am BLUEKNIGHT911, and I have had a few conversations with Dennis.......as He has stated...............However I DID NOT WIN AT THE 2015 DRAGS WITH MY 1330 RT.........................I DID WIN IN 2014 WITH MY RSS WITH THE V-TWIN, and told the poster this , so there may have been some confusion on this point. There was a lot of info passed back and forth in a few different PM's.........Annnnnd someone named " BLUEKNIGHT " may actually have won.......it just wasn't me ......................I just wanted this clarified.....I do not take credit for something I didn't accomplish.............Mistakes happen .....All's good, :thumbup:..................................Mike

 

[Lew L]

Air box pix??

Thanks for your experimentation on power mods 4 the 1330 motor. I've never left any motor vehical stock and made many intake mods on all my bikes. Most sucessful--- one-- not so much.

Would love to see a picture of the air box mods. Would larger holes or just one large extra intake inlet work better than a bunch of smaller holes ( consider the area, turbulence, flow?)

Hard to break into the ECU on the :spyder2:.. But some wizard will soon do it!!!

Kaos

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

TIRES

If you are really into this endeavor, Try and score a COMPLETE rear wheel assembly on E-bay or similar site and get a DOT legal TRACK TIRE from DISCOUNT TIRE or TIRE RACK with a UTOQ of 100 .............You can drive it to the track if it's not to far and the traction will be AMAZING .....Mike :clap:

 

[PMK]

3. Adding the cat delete, air box mod, with the stock muffler now lays down about 15 feet of rubber off the line. Almost too much traction loss as my best mph is a wash @ 93 mph.
Blocking my air box mod holes, cat delete, stock muffler. Almost no tire spin and basically back to stock times of 90 mph ish.
Step one conclusion, air box modification improves instant acceleration but only gives modest gains through mid-range and top end.
PHASE TWO RESULTS.

5. Two brothers pipe, air box mod with cat in place. Whole new animal. Power slightly up staring at 3.2k. Huge power gain from 4 to 6 K. There is a little loss of power off the line and almost no tire spin. 96 to 97 mph and still climbing. This is real step in the right direction. The bike is quite down low and not too loud on top. When I block my air box mod holes I lose 2 mph. If I shift the bike down to 4th or 3rd gear in the 40 to 50 mph range it really jumps and pulls. I was stunned with the sound and passing performance improvements. Heads really turn at the new sound. Adding the PX-1K power tip is a wash for speeds but improves low end to the point of about 5 feet of rubber off the line.

Awesome topic and post.

Much of what you explained is solid and works for many engines. Unless for race or really tuned, some exhaust back pressure is good for bottom and mid power, plus drivability.

In my opinion, based on your words, #3 is the performer. I say this on account of the long wheel spin may be killing a 60' time and lowering top speed.

As for getting back to making the bike squirt away to pass at highway speeds, seems again #3 may be best.

The exhaust in #3 has lengthened the tubes resonance and commonly a longer tube before restriction gives more torque.

Regarding the intake, I agree it is very long and doubtful it has been tuned in any way. The intake runs a respectable still airbox, which likely is difficult to refill.

Sadly, BRP designed the intake snaking from the inlet at the left front, to the filter at the left mid, accross the front to the plenum on the right, into the TB on the right and finally into the engine. The intake cross section should handle the airflow, the filter and bends choke it some, but worse yet is the constantly changing shape, that and length that is not tuned.

PK

 

[Dennis in Lodi]

Where I put my mod holes

I experimented with the box open and the filter out just to see if the engine could use more air. It seemed to respond in the low end. In talking with Blue Knight he confirmed what my camera inspection of the inside of the box looked like. All the air for this system comes from 3 small slots in the front left corner.
I focused not not opening up holes big enought for mice and not letting direct water to come in. Keep in mind I was gassing the motor and holding the brake to create most of the momentum for breaking the tire loose. I drilled as many 1/2" holes in the front intake slots as the space allowed. Where the cover for the filter is, just to the left is a flat area facing upward and slightly to the rear. I felt this would be less likely to take on rain water in this location. That is where I drilled my second round of holes. Easy enough to cover these holes back up if you don't feel it improves your situation.

I am really committed #5 as this delivers the best sound and performance. What Two Brothers refers to as a power tip is really a restrictor baffle. I can really hear the air box starting to honk with intake air at around 4k through 6k. I don't like the straining/clunking sound of the shifting system above 7k so I am focused on 6k for shifting.
I am pleased with the improved power delivery in the 4K to 6K area. Roll through a right hand turn in 1st gear and do two shifts @ 6K and this bike is really moving over stock. Enter the intestate in 4th gear around 50 mph and hold to 6K you are passing traffic in seconds. Using this new power will really make a difference when you need to pass.

Thanks for your experimentation on power mods 4 the 1330 motor. I've never left any motor vehical stock and made many intake mods on all my bikes. Most sucessful--- one-- not so much.

Would love to see a picture of the air box mods. Would larger holes or just one large extra intake inlet work better than a bunch of smaller holes ( consider the area, turbulence, flow?)

Hard to break into the ECU on the :spyder2:.. But some wizard will soon do it!!!

Kaos

 

[Lew L]

Tupperware/??

Which tupperware pieces do you need to take off for the air box mod???? is it easier to take off the Frunk??
Best air box mods I've done were on a ZX-11 ( insulation, good sealing, Kouchmann defuser) and a V-Max (increased the air box opening and inlet by about 15% and insulation).

I know that inlet air temp makes a big difference--- any ideas on how to get ambient air temp to the air box rather than heated air???

Kaos

 

[Dennis in Lodi]

Not the Frunk

You are taking off the left side items starting with the left mirror as sitting on the bike. The front intake collects direct ambient air as you drive. On my 2015 RT-S, looking at the front of the bike, it is a small slotted triangle vent intake. This is one place where I drilled holes to get more air into the box.

Which tupperware pieces do you need to take off for the air box mod???? is it easier to take off the Frunk??
Best air box mods I've done were on a ZX-11 ( insulation, good sealing, Kouchmann defuser) and a V-Max (increased the air box opening and inlet by about 15% and insulation).

I know that inlet air temp makes a big difference--- any ideas on how to get ambient air temp to the air box rather than heated air???

Kaos

 

[Dennis in Lodi]

More speed data

I conducted timed test as follows. 4th gear, 4K rpm to 6k rpm, 55 mph to 85mph. Level ground.

1. My Stock 2015 RT-S takes just a whisker over 10 seconds to go from 55 mph to 85 mph in 4th gear.
2. Air box mods, two brothers pipe, cat in place. Just under 7 seconds.
3. same as 2. but with P1 baffle in place. just over 7 seconds

The Two brothers Baffle is a restrictor that just about matches the stock pull off idle. With the baffle it is close to stock in sound levels until that magic 4k performance area where you hear an uptick in exhaust sound AND INTAKE box sound.

With just the Two Brothers pipe and no Baffle the pull is softer than stock until about 3.2K. It gets stronger than the baffle set up starting at 5.5k. There is many you-tube clips for the pipe sound. But they don't reflect the working sound under load. From a 4k rolling start in 1st gear, shifting at 6k through 4th is an amazing acceleration improvement over stock. That's real world driving improvements for passing, merging, or blasting out of a slow corner for fun. The bonus is the bike can be surprisingly quite when just tooling around. Seems like a win win for me.

 

[PMK]

Made some mods...took some photos...more to follow.

PK

 

[Lew L]

Air box access

Good morning Dennis,
What panels must be removed to get access to the air box cover where you drilled the holes. I going to pull the trigger on this mod as soon as I get the 3000 mi service done. Like others, BRP probably has to meet noise restrictions, and intake roar can really add to the exhaust sound. The cat delete will be next. i modded both my ZX-11 and Yamaha V-Max intakes for sucessful gains ( abeit small ones ) and am looking foward to get a bit more from the 1330 motor.

Thanks,

Kaos

 

[Bob Denman]

Take a look at his answer in Post #11

 

[PMK]

Before you make any decisions, let me post the photos. I did remove the left side intake pipe. It is a big deal to remove and reinstall. Not only a big deal but a huge PIA.

Also, the air intake is not exactly as it is described in the first post. There is a lot more air entry than those few slots. I have photos, just need time to pull them off the camera and upload them here.

Last night was the first ride with the modded inlet. For us, two up, the jury is still out as for increased power.

PK

 

[PMK]

I experimented with the box open and the filter out just to see if the engine could use more air. It seemed to respond in the low end. In talking with Blue Knight he confirmed what my camera inspection of the inside of the box looked like. All the air for this system comes from 3 small slots in the front left corner.
I focused not not opening up holes big enought for mice and not letting direct water to come in. Keep in mind I was gassing the motor and holding the brake to create most of the momentum for breaking the tire loose. I drilled as many 1/2" holes in the front intake slots as the space allowed. Where the cover for the filter is, just to the left is a flat area facing upward and slightly to the rear. I felt this would be less likely to take on rain water in this location. That is where I drilled my second round of holes. Easy enough to cover these holes back up if you don't feel it improves your situation.

I am really committed #5 as this delivers the best sound and performance. What Two Brothers refers to as a power tip is really a restrictor baffle. I can really hear the air box starting to honk with intake air at around 4k through 6k. I don't like the straining/clunking sound of the shifting system above 7k so I am focused on 6k for shifting.
I am pleased with the improved power delivery in the 4K to 6K area. Roll through a right hand turn in 1st gear and do two shifts @ 6K and this bike is really moving over stock. Enter the intestate in 4th gear around 50 mph and hold to 6K you are passing traffic in seconds. Using this new power will really make a difference when you need to pass.

The text that I highlighted in red I do not see as correct. The three slots are not the only air inlet. About 4 inches aft of the slots, the intake tube is open. There is a second oem inlet below the slots and this second inlet feeds more into the intake pipe.

In regards to the blue text, I did not find this restriction. With the air intake tube flex elbow removed, the air has a straight unrestricted access to the air filter.

I have not explored the second still airbox nor the cross tube from the filter airbox to the still airbox. Possibly restrictions or baffles live inside those, not sure but certainly would not make sense to be there.

PK

 

[Bob Denman]

PK,
Are you still running the stock exhaust system?
(Other than the Catalytic Converter by-pass pipe?)

 

[PMK]

Some photos taken while I was opening up the front intake area on our 2014 RTs.

IMG 1448 shows the air filter inside the airbox, this is looking through the opening where the 90 degree flex elbow is secured. The flex elbow connects the intake pipe to the first airbox.

IMG 1449 is a closeup into the airbox. The white and orange is the air filter.

IMG 1450 is looking in the flex elbow. The intake pipe and fog light are in the background. The frunk has been removed for this photo and the work to be accomplished.

IMG 1451 Shows the underside of the intake pipe and two of the three securing bolts in gold cad color.

IMG 1452 more detail of intake pipe from underside.

IMG 1453 more detail of intake pipe from underside.

IMG 1454 this is the slot intake that will be modified.

IMG 1455 The intake pipe removed from the frunk. At left is the slotted inlet, to the right is the flex elbow to connect at the airbox.

IMG 1456 Shows the removed intake pipe. The left end is the flex elbow. The right end is the area of the slots. NOTE the huge open section of intake pipe to the left of the slotted end. If you zoom the pipes right end, you can even see the slots. The slots do not feed the majority of intake air.

IMG 1457 Is the intake slots being modified. This view is normal to how the tube sits in the frunk. Notice the second flat plastic beneath the slotted area. This is the second scoop visible on the frunks exterior. This scoop feeds air into the large opening in the previous photo.

IMG 1458, 1459, 1460, 1461, are all similar. This is showing the opening in the inake pipe, which allows you to see the slots that have been modified. Also, note the second scoop that allows air to enter into the tube open wall you are looking through to see the modified slots. This front air entry is somewhat sealed by the installation of the radiator inlet duct and metal FOD screen. You are seeing the orange bucket through the area where the FOD screen is normally installed.

IMG 1462, 1463, 1464, 1465, 1466 show looking into the reassembled modified slotted intake and the second intake beneath it.

I can’t argue with the original poster times at the track. Again, the jury is still out on this mod for me. Not to concerned about rain since the intake pipe has a huge drain (inlet) behind the slots.

As I mentioned there is a lot of work to get that intake pipe removed. I spent a few hours start to finish and had bodypanels and fasteners stacked about.

All the best in this mod.


PK

 

[PMK]

reserved for photos