My dealer experience this morning

[PMK]

Very true...but being a pretty patient person for the most part...if they're all gone I will just wait for a used one to show up.

Guessing you saw the link...

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

FEE'S AND THINGS

That could be, but keep in mind the old adage, "How do you know if a salesman is lying? See if his lips are moving!"

BRP owning the trucks and drivers being employees sounds fishy. BRP very well may have contracted firms doing the deliveries though. If they owned the trucks then they would have to either dead head them back to the factory, which means delivery costs would be about double, or be a Common Carrier so they could do back hauls. Neither of those options sounds sensible to me, especially for a Canadian company for whom the US is the single biggest market. Trucking is not a lucrative business. The only company I can think of off hand that has its own trucking fleet is WalMart, and they are multiple times larger than BRP. Even Harley uses a contract carrier for their trikes, Haul Bikes.com.

If, as you say, BRP pays the dealer to assemble the bike, which I really doubt, then you can be sure that the average cost of doing so is built into the invoice price.

In the end the cost to buy a bike includes the cost of manufacturing + mfr margin to get the bike to the loading dock, then the cost of delivery from factory to dealer, the cost of getting it ready to go out the dealer's door, and the dealer's margin. On average none of these will be zero or negative or the business goes broke. On an individual unit sale, because of various circumstances like really old unsold new stock, some parts of the pricing may be negative. If the buyer can snag a deal where one of those components is taken to zero or negative then he/she will have a great deal.

I'm sorry you were right ( damnit )....I called the Salesperson back and after some ARM twisting I got them to admit they LIED to me about the free shipping and set-up charges.........He said He actually paid for them Himself ...from his own pocket .......because He felt I was such a WONDERFUL, SWEET, LOVABLE , ETC. GUY...:yikes: ...................Mike :thumbup:.........................:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:...........:lecturef_smilie::lecturef_smilie::lecturef_smilie:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

MEA CULPA ,MEA CULPA

Hmm..on the phone right now and they have never heard of Trevor...his name is Dillon!!!....:agree:

He's trying to work a deal out for me!

Sorry, I don't know why I keep calling Him " Trevor " .................Good Luck, but it is late for getting a 2014...........Mike :thumbup:

 

[gparr]

FWIW,

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?77117-2014-RT-Limited-Loaded

PK

I sent him a PM...thanks for the find...hopefully luck will be on my side.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I'm sorry you were right ( damnit )....I called the Salesperson back and after some ARM twisting I got them to admit they LIED to me about the free shipping and set-up charges.........He said He actually paid for them Himself ...from his own pocket .......because He felt I was such a WONDERFUL, SWEET, LOVABLE , ETC. GUY...:yikes: ...................Mike :thumbup:.........................:roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack::roflblack:...........:lecturef_smilie::lecturef_smilie::lecturef_smilie:

Next time I'm at the dealer I'm going to ask the owner how shipping is figured in and paid for. Not that he will actually tell me, but at least I can try. The 2014 I was looking at the other day had a handwritten price tag listing shipping at something like $500. That's half of what I paid to Haulbikes.com to bring my 2013 from Wisconsin to Idaho but the dealer gets them shipped in a crate. A lot cheaper than shipping a fully assembled bike. Harley apparently ships their trikes fully assembled. Maybe they don't trust the dealers to assemble them right? :dontknow: I bought my Spyder used off Craigslist.

 

[3 Wheel Rider]

GPARR...How does your quest end?

gparr... Please keep us posted on how your quest ends. Hoping you'll be looking at a Pearl White RT Limited in your garage soon.

 

[gparr]

Thanks, 3 Wheels!!!

I have a PM into Lone Spyders...hopefully that will work out...if not I will continue to be patient and see what happens.

 

[Questions]

Don't forget about your local dealer. They are not to far off on price. I know that the Texas deal is a great deal, and it is legit, but what happens when the big dealers run your local guys out of business? Will you drive to Texas to have warranty and recall service done? I know that is not necessarily going to happen, but just hypothetically speaking. If they are good folks to work with then don't give up on them. You may need them to stick their necks out for you with BRP before its over.

 

[Questions]

That could be, but keep in mind the old adage, "How do you know if a salesman is lying? See if his lips are moving!"

BRP owning the trucks and drivers being employees sounds fishy. BRP very well may have contracted firms doing the deliveries though. If they owned the trucks then they would have to either dead head them back to the factory, which means delivery costs would be about double, or be a Common Carrier so they could do back hauls. Neither of those options sounds sensible to me, especially for a Canadian company for whom the US is the single biggest market. Trucking is not a lucrative business. The only company I can think of off hand that has its own trucking fleet is WalMart, and they are multiple times larger than BRP. Even Harley uses a contract carrier for their trikes, Haul Bikes.com.

If, as you say, BRP pays the dealer to assemble the bike, which I really doubt, then you can be sure that the average cost of doing so is built into the invoice price.

In the end the cost to buy a bike includes the cost of manufacturing + mfr margin to get the bike to the loading dock, then the cost of delivery from factory to dealer, the cost of getting it ready to go out the dealer's door, and the dealer's margin. On average none of these will be zero or negative or the business goes broke. On an individual unit sale, because of various circumstances like really old unsold new stock, some parts of the pricing may be negative. If the buyer can snag a deal where one of those components is taken to zero or negative then he/she will have a great deal.

BRP does not own their own trucks, they are contracted. The dealer pays the trucking company freight, not BRP.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

KNOWLEDGE

BRP does not own their own trucks, they are contracted. The dealer pays the trucking company freight, not BRP.

Interesting , and you know this because you are a BRP / Spyder Dealer ???????.....................Mike :thumbup:

 

[MRH]

if you are willing to travel ... stick to your offer... some dealers just don't want to cut their profit margin...that's ok.. save them the trouble of depositing your money into their bank account... some dealers figure a smaller profit is better than NO PROFIT.. its to your advantage to be informed.. the internet is your best friend for getting better prices... then call the dealer.. get a signed buyer order faxed to you.. then go get it... and enjoy the ride home with a big smile of your face....

osm

I run a small business and have run up against this argument a number of times. That small "profit" may not be profit at all. It may not represent enough money to cover reasonable costs of running the business, which include feeding the dealer's family. There is an importance to maintaining the integrity of one's pricing for all of one's clients, and selling too cheap can cost money in future sales.

Now, some dealers have no business being in business, but there are many others who work very hard (and take a lot of risk in their business) to make it possible for us to ride and service our Spyders.

No question about it, this is a free market and we can all take our business where we like, but the thread of anger that seems to be running underneath the unwillingness of the dealer to sell the Spyder for what they buyer wants to pay doesn't seem warranted to me.

 

[Questions]

Interesting , and you know this because you are a BRP / Spyder Dealer ???????.....................Mike :thumbup:

I do work for one, yes sir.

 

[MRH]

I do work for one, yes sir.

Do you know if all dealers end up paying the same cost for each unit, or do rebates, quality discounts, and other factors come into play that put the cost to one dealer at a different level than the cost to another dealer?

 

[gparr]

If anyone knows Lone Spyders please get him to respond to my PM for his for sale ad in the classifieds.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Do you know if all dealers end up paying the same cost for each unit, or do rebates, quality discounts, and other factors come into play that put the cost to one dealer at a different level than the cost to another dealer?

That is the $30,500 question! I would guess if ACE knows the answer he's not going to tell because he will want to keep his job. There is no doubt in my mind there are variables like what you ask about and those variables can, and probably do, impact the final selling price a dealer will quote. It's my understanding pricing schemes got changed in the auto world with the advent of automotive web sites. The factory invoice price that a site like Edmunds quotes is, I believe, a real invoice price that gets put on the books as the flooring cost of the car to the dealer. When the dealer says this is what the car cost me to bring into my showroom, he's not lying. What we don't know, and what's not widely known, is what the year end rebate or other factory incentives there are that determine the real cost of the car to the dealer. From what I have seen and experienced those numbers have successfully been kept under wraps. It's all part of the cat and mouse game dealers and customers play with each other. I just looked at one car price on Edmunds. The average selling price for a new car was about 8% less than the MSRP and $50 above factory invoice. There's no way dealers will stay in business selling new cars with only a $50 margin. They have to be getting money somewhere else in the entire scheme of moving new cars. And one thing you can hang your hat on is they are not going to tell us! Those are just as secret as the Colonel's 11 herbs and spices recipe!

My oldest brother worked for a grocery wholesaler years ago. He said that groceries, especially items like canned goods, went through the local grocer with at best a 2 or 3% markup. Where the grocer really made his money was with the year end rebates from the food producers and wholesalers. Crazy pricing method, but it helps the manufacturer to maintain a more stable selling price to the public, which helps all the retailers by minimizing the margin available for undercutting each other.

 

[Rob Rodriguez]

I believe this is the way it works based on knowing a former BRP dealer.

Each Dealer is charged the same price for new BRP product being delivered to their store. The difference comes in depending the the BRP classification of the dealer. If the dealer is classified as gold rather than silver than he will receive a discount (or larger kick back) on the product from BRP. So, he may pay the same amount as all the other dealers (on paper) but once the numbers are played out he ends up with more profit (theoretically..........also has more room to discount) in the end.

The same holds true for service work. A dealer that has a higher classification level will get paid a higher hourly rate for BRP warranty service work. The higher the BRP classification level the more "perks" a dealer receives.

The real question is how does a dealer achieve a higher classification? I think that has to do more with what they buy from BRP than anything. What they buy meaning. If a dealer "buys" service tech training from BRP every year for their techs they receive a higher classification. If the dealer fully subscribes to the BRP parts and maintenance software they receive a higher classification. If a dealer sells more product they receive a higher classification. So, a dealer has to invest more in order to receive a higher classification and therefore potentially make more.

 

[Questions]

You are very close!

I believe this is the way it works based on knowing a former BRP dealer.

Each Dealer is charged the same price for new BRP product being delivered to their store. The difference comes in depending the the BRP classification of the dealer. If the dealer is classified as gold rather than silver than he will receive a discount (or larger kick back) on the product from BRP. So, he may pay the same amount as all the other dealers (on paper) but once the numbers are played out he ends up with more profit (theoretically..........also has more room to discount) in the end.

The same holds true for service work. A dealer that has a higher classification level will get paid a higher hourly rate for BRP warranty service work. The higher the BRP classification level the more "perks" a dealer receives.

The real question is how does a dealer achieve a higher classification? I think that has to do more with what they buy from BRP than anything. What they buy meaning. If a dealer "buys" service tech training from BRP every year for their techs they receive a higher classification. If the dealer fully subscribes to the BRP parts and maintenance software they receive a higher classification. If a dealer sells more product they receive a higher classification. So, a dealer has to invest more in order to receive a higher classification and therefore potentially make more.

Trying not to say to much, I will try and help. You are very close on your thoughts. The "Platinum" status of a dealership does help with certain of these things. But the manner of which you become platinum is a little off. It is becoming harder to reach the platinum status of dealerships. BRP has cracked down on the dealers and held them more accountable than in the past. It is in some part the amount of units that you sell, rather than how many you buy. But this is by far not all its based on. You must have a reputable service dept., which maintains multiple certified techs and at least one master tech. Your parts room plays a big role in the classification. Also, more than you guys know, the little surveys you guys send in play a big role. I know that BRP has its flaws, and all dealers, including ours, does as well, but BRP does make it challenging to maintain "Platinum" status. If you have noticed the number of these dealers have dropped significantly. Yes the dealer has to invest more per say, but its not how much money they give BRP. I do believe it has improved the quality of dealers out there, which is a big win for the consumer.
Now the question of how does some dealers sell cheaper than others. The more units a dealer sells, the larger the holdback or "bonus" a dealer will receive. The big dealers knowing the amount they will attain, will work this in as discounts on the bikes, same as all of the other dealers do the rebates. As far as I know all dealers pay the same for the unit, shipping costs may vary, and a dealer decides what to charge for the setup fee (not paid by BRP.) This is why your small local dealer cannot offer you the same price as a larger one in a big city. So don't be so hard on the small guys when they cant get the price as low as the others.

 

[Tango]

Selling cars and selling bikes are way different. Car dealerships have a 3% hold back on the retail price. Example, $30,000 sticker, $900 hold back. The hold back is paid to the dealer quarterly. There are also monthly, quarterly bonuses for selling a certain amount of cars. And there are factory to dealer incentives on certain models. Some more so than others. So, with that said. A dealer can sell at cost, and make a lot of money! Also there are flooring plans that delay billing a car to the dealer for a certain amount of time. I was in my motorcycle dealer once when the sales manager said he just dropped $200,000 on ATV's. When I asked if that was good. His reply, "awesome"! We get them for 180 days free floor planning. So, there are a number of back door deals available. :thumbup: Tom :spyder:

 

[Rob Rodriguez]

Exactly, all BRP dealers work off a "floor plan". They have X amount of time to sell product with no payments and then start making payments on the inventory once that grace period is up. This insures BRP receives their money when the product is delivered to the dealer. The dealer may have 50 new units on the floor he hasn't paid for but BRP has been paid in full and the floor plan company is waiting on their money from the dealer. This set up has pros and cons obviously but its typically the way business is done for items like this.

 

[MRH]

Exactly, all BRP dealers work off a "floor plan". They have X amount of time to sell product with no payments and then start making payments on the inventory once that grace period is up. This insures BRP receives their money when the product is delivered to the dealer. The dealer may have 50 new units on the floor he hasn't paid for but BRP has been paid in full and the floor plan company is waiting on their money from the dealer. This set up has pros and cons obviously but its typically the way business is done for items like this.

For those who don't know (I didn't until right now), the internet tell me that Floor Plan Companies are loan companies that actually pay for the vehicles (instead of the dealerships, because that much inventory requires very deep pockets). Those companies, of course, charge interest on that money. So, the longer something sits in the showroom, the more expensive it becomes for the dealer.

(Think about all those 2013 RT's that seem to be very hard to move, and continue to cost the dealers money every month they sit unsold.)