Just how do the Brake Switches work?

[Cambello]

Question 1, So I'm under the RT and I'm looking up at the brake section. on the left is a fully depressed switch, now I think this is the pressure switch, how does this unit work?

Question 2, On the right is another switch, this switch operates the brake lights and is depressed until you put your foot on the brake, At this point the switch opens and the lights come on, is this switch N/O or N/C

I was standing behind the bike the other day and the brake lights were flickering even when i had taken the key out, I also suffer from my cruise control switching off intermittently when I'm riding and I do have the revs above 3750 and my feet are off the pedals.

 

[jwulf74]

Sounds like you may need to trim the little rubber stopper that the pedal rests against, or ,ay need to adjust the pedal so that it comes up farther so it isn't triggering the light switch.

Just my guesses though.

 

[samewok]

The brake light switch will affect the cruise control.

 

[Cambello]

Trimming

Sounds like you may need to trim the little rubber stopper that the pedal rests against, or ,ay need to adjust the pedal so that it comes up farther so it isn't triggering the light switch.

Just my guesses though.

I've seen this mentioned a few times,was it common in the first models

 

[Bob Denman]

If your brakelights are staying on; you've got a problem that yor dealer will need to address... :shocked:

 

[Cambello]

Brake Switch working

There are two microswitches associated with the brakes on the RT.
A NO switch which controls the brake lights (BLS) via a connection to ECM.
A NC switch which senses low pressure (LPS) and is connected to the VCM.

The flickering light syndrome is best fixed (I am told) by trimming the rubber snubber on the brake pedal lever.

Great thats what I needed to know, the BLS switch is simply an open or closed, but the LPS works only if the foot pedal is pressed to a point beyond that of normal use. This would then tell the system that either the brake fluid is low or the Pads are low, either case you get the warning light up.

So the BLS connects directly to the ECM and not to a relay unit that controls the lights. This must be the reason why the ECM has a fit when you have your foot on the brakes and your hand on the throttle. That gives the ECM two inputs and that's what gives you orange alarm lights. Now it's making sense., Thanks

 

[NancysToy]

Great thats what I needed to know, the BLS switch is simply an open or closed, but the LPS works only if the foot pedal is pressed to a point beyond that of normal use. This would then tell the system that either the brake fluid is low or the Pads are low, either case you get the warning light up.

So the BLS connects directly to the ECM and not to a relay unit that controls the lights. This must be the reason why the ECM has a fit when you have your foot on the brakes and your hand on the throttle. That gives the ECM two inputs and that's what gives you orange alarm lights. Now it's making sense., Thanks

Low brake fluid is indicated by a float switch in the brake reservoir. Limp mode is triggered when the brake switch indicates the brake pedal is depressed, but the brake system shows no pressure.

 

[Cambello]

testing the system

Ok the chapter goes on,
So, last night I un-plugged the BRAKE switch, now this is the one at the back of the brake bracket. Its the unit that has two wires. Now these wires, so I am told go back to the ECM. (Great) But then I thought what does the PRESSURE switch do, because as you know you need to stand on the BRAKE in order to start the bike. Any way the bike started as normal when I pressed the pedal and it fired up. And true to course not long after that 10 miles, the alarms came back. which must mean that the big switch PRESSURE SWITCH must be failing(or I'm hoping it is).

Conclusion,
So the ECM receves two signals from the brake pedal. The brake switch tells the ECM that you are applying the brake and the pressure switch tells the ECM that all is ok to do that. When it goes pair shaped is when the ECM see's the PRESSURE switch signal and not the BRAKE switch signal. So when we talk about the brake switch being the problem it might not be, it might be the pressure switch. Either way the only course left is to replace the two of them and then see if the fault clears.

Just as a thought!!!!!!!! does tyre wear cause these failings??????

 

[spyderyderjim]

Probably have low brake fluid in front section reservoir

Ok the chapter goes on,
So, last night I un-plugged the BRAKE switch, now this is the one at the back of the brake bracket. Its the unit that has two wires. Now these wires, so I am told go back to the ECM. (Great) But then I thought what does the PRESSURE switch do, because as you know you need to stand on the BRAKE in order to start the bike. Any way the bike started as normal when I pressed the pedal and it fired up. And true to course not long after that 10 miles, the alarms came back. which must mean that the big switch PRESSURE SWITCH must be failing(or I'm hoping it is).

Conclusion,
So the ECM receves two signals from the brake pedal. The brake switch tells the ECM that you are applying the brake and the pressure switch tells the ECM that all is ok to do that. When it goes pair shaped is when the ECM see's the PRESSURE switch signal and not the BRAKE switch signal. So when we talk about the brake switch being the problem it might not be, it might be the pressure switch. Either way the only course left is to replace the two of them and then see if the fault clears.

Just as a thought!!!!!!!! does tyre wear cause these failings??????

The brake fluid needs to be filled to edge of brake reservoir front fill hole leaving just enough room on top for rubber in cap to fit.
Most brake problems are solved by just adding brake fluid.
When rear brake shoes wear, brake fluid gets low enough to affect float switch, they are touchy to low fluid.
Hope this helps.
Jim

 

[NancysToy]

When it goes pair shaped is when the ECM see's the PRESSURE switch signal and not the BRAKE switch signal. So when we talk about the brake switch being the problem it might not be, it might be the pressure switch. Either way the only course left is to replace the two of them and then see if the fault clears.

I imagine the scenario you have expressed could cause limp mode, but most commonly it is the other way around...the system sees the brake switch but no brake pressure (or inadequate brake pressure). Merely resting your foot on the brake pedal is enough to cause this. Note that unlike many other vehicles, it is my understanding that the Spyder monitors the actual brake pressure, not just a threshold. The brake pressure can be read via BUDS for diagnostic purposes.

 

[Cambello]

Interesting

I imagine the scenario you have expressed could cause limp mode, but most commonly it is the other way around...the system sees the brake switch but no brake pressure (or inadequate brake pressure). Merely resting your foot on the brake pedal is enough to cause this. Note that unlike many other vehicles, it is my understanding that the Spyder monitors the actual brake pressure, not just a threshold. The brake pressure can be read via BUDS for diagnostic purposes.

Humm, I'm just thinking now that maybe it could be more than the switches, I definately had the alarms come up when I had no feet on the pedal brake. I took the top off the brake bottle and the fluid was right at the top. p0504 keeps popping up on every alarm as well as 5 others which I think is the system just going potty.

It all seems to be directed at the brakes, I went on a bit of a run last weekend and the bike tripped out twice within 20 miles. After speaking to a fellow rider about this I decided to ride with my foot pushing the pedal up!! and guess what!! NO ALARMS, but since then I hav'nt been able to reproduce the trouble free ride. the ride was about 150 miles

 

[Cambello]

Stuck in the UK, planted in Wales

I imagine the scenario you have expressed could cause limp mode, but most commonly it is the other way around...the system sees the brake switch but no brake pressure (or inadequate brake pressure). Merely resting your foot on the brake pedal is enough to cause this. Note that unlike many other vehicles, it is my understanding that the Spyder monitors the actual brake pressure, not just a threshold. The brake pressure can be read via BUDS for diagnostic purposes.

We in the UK dont have the pleasures of a lot dealers with BUDs I think it's only 2 and 0 in Wales. (But I could be wrong) and at roughly 400-450 Spyders thats not enough, so all this help is really appriciated, I think Can Am should look at this situation and maybe invest in a system were by you can plug your :spyder2: into the net and it would connect to Head office. And then do a diagnostic, that way issues like this can be sorted quite easily for owners in remote places., for a small cost of course!!

 

[NancysToy]

Humm, I'm just thinking now that maybe it could be more than the switches, I definately had the alarms come up when I had no feet on the pedal brake. I took the top off the brake bottle and the fluid was right at the top. p0504 keeps popping up on every alarm as well as 5 others which I think is the system just going potty.

It all seems to be directed at the brakes, I went on a bit of a run last weekend and the bike tripped out twice within 20 miles. After speaking to a fellow rider about this I decided to ride with my foot pushing the pedal up!! and guess what!! NO ALARMS, but since then I hav'nt been able to reproduce the trouble free ride. the ride was about 150 miles

Bad or sticking brake switch, brake pedal return rubber too thick, aftermarket pedal extension, or pedal pivot needs lubrication. I'd shave the return bumper first, and clean and lube the pedal pivot.

 

[Cambello]

Sticky switch

Bad or sticking brake switch, brake pedal return rubber too thick, aftermarket pedal extension, or pedal pivot needs lubrication. I'd shave the return bumper first, and clean and lube the pedal pivot.

I'm going with the switches first. Being in the UK everthing is expensive, the two switches cost aroung $95 but in the UK that would be around £110 with posting and tax, and thats $140, so looking on local websites I found this,





Cost for the two switches in the UK £11 ,,,,,$16.. a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Cambello]

Testing time

OK so tonight I put the last switch in the brake plate and wired it up. I put a bit of double sided sticky tape between the switches first then I screwed them down and locked the nuts off. Had a bit of trouble with the brake piston alignment but in the end It went back in and I screwed it all the way home. After that the panels went back on fairly quick but I'm still finding the mirrors proving to be very awkward. The new switches DID feel much better, especially the brake switch, it felt really crisp!!
Finally found the rubber stopper everyone keeps on telling me about:yes:



Test ride
So I took her out for a spin tonight, just a couple of miles with lots of turns and braking and all went well. If this rain stops I'll take her into work tomorrow as she use to alarm at the same point every time, so it will be a good test.
Fingers crossed.


Total cost of the switch's replacement 17 dollars.That's Brake switch and Brake pressure switch
Total time taken...............................3 hours

 

[Cambello]

A Big thanks!

Just writing to say thanks for all the help you all offered when i had the problem with the brake switches. Glad to say that it seems to have been fixed with the replacement of those two items.
:clap::clap::clap:

 

[markyodo]

Your scenario and errors are similar to mine but the symptoms are reversed. I have had no brake lights.
Do you think a switch could be the issue with no break lights?
https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?121815-No-brake-lights-(not-the-fuse)

 

[UtahPete]

Just writing to say thanks for all the help you all offered when i had the problem with the brake switches. Glad to say that it seems to have been fixed with the replacement of those two items.
:clap::clap::clap:

I'm glad someone resurrected this thread; it's very helpful in resolving spurious limp home mode / VSS warnings caused by stuck or faulty brake switches.