Making the 2013 Spyder RT-S "Perfect"

[stewartj239]

My guess is that they will run the engine with different A/F ratios to address the heat issue. If true, that is likely to mean a slight reduction in mpg.

I agree. If the bike is running hot / lean, they more than likely are richening it up which in turn would decrease your MPG. My last bike (VFR800) had the lean issue and after adding the PCV, I lost 4-5 MPG, but the bike ran perfect. I personally am not concerned about the MPG.

I think once this 2013 RT-S is as perfect as you can get it, the factory solutions will not work on this bike.

I agree, but that is OK, because the PCV and AutoTune will use the new ECM map as the base map and adjust from there. With that said, I don't even need the ECM update for the map, but was told by my dealer that there is other software in there that affects things other than the map that are specific to the overall systems on the bike. Therefore, I will get the update.

So what will this mean to the factory warranty? This is the key item stopping me (for the moment) from making some of the changes (anything that touches the electronic A/F or ignition management).

All of these changes are benign and can be reversed. These are all very common changes made to all types of motorcycles. This is why the aftermarket exists. Realistically, warranties are usually handy for major mechanical issues, but how rare is that? You would be hard pressed to find a major mechanical failure due to any one of the modifications that is being outlined in this thread. I think the warranty altering changes would come when you actually open up and modify the engine - big bore, cams, etc.

 

[stewartj239]

To be truthful the warranty is as good as the Dealer applying it. They present it in the proper context too BRP it should not be any issues.

Yes, a good dealer is already aware of the shortcomings of the machine and should be working with you to provide solutions.

frankly I am doing to the bike what should be done but the factory is hamstrung by stupid regulation and costs.

You are spot on. This is exactly why the aftermarket exists. If you want your bike to run the way the hard core engineers designed it to, then you can't leave it stock.

 

[spacetiger]

I agree. If the bike is running hot / lean, they more than likely are richening it up which in turn would decrease your MPG. My last bike (VFR800) had the lean issue and after adding the PCV, I lost 4-5 MPG, but the bike ran perfect. I personally am not concerned about the MPG.



I agree, but that is OK, because the PCV and AutoTune will use the new ECM map as the base map and adjust from there. With that said, I don't even need the ECM update for the map, but was told by my dealer that there is other software in there that affects things other than the map that are specific to the overall systems on the bike. Therefore, I will get the update.



All of these changes are benign and can be reversed. These are all very common changes made to all types of motorcycles. This is why the aftermarket exists. Realistically, warranties are usually handy for major mechanical issues, but how rare is that? You would be hard pressed to find a major mechanical failure due to any one of the modifications that is being outlined in this thread. I think the warranty altering changes would come when you actually open up and modify the engine - big bore, cams, etc.

The mpg might go down, but I think it also has the possibly of going up if you wanted t tune the bike for that. For certain, the performance envelope should increase. Do you have a feel for what you will do with the ignition curve? Seems to me it can be really optimized for best power per RPM (I am sure the emissions might not be improved; the reason it was never optimized in the first place).

Jerry

 

[stewartj239]

The mpg might go down, but I think it also has the possibly of going up if you wanted t tune the bike for that. For certain, the performance envelope should increase. Do you have a feel for what you will do with the ignition curve? Seems to me it can be really optimized for best power per RPM (I am sure the emissions might not be improved; the reason it was never optimized in the first place).

Jerry

The beauty of the PCV is that you can tune it for whatever you want - performance or even economy. For right now, I am not planning to do any specific manual tuning. I want to see what the AutoTune comes up with first. After putting one on my prior bike, the included PCV base map was so much better that I just left it alone.

 

[spacetiger]

The beauty of the PCV is that you can tune it for whatever you want - performance or even economy. For right now, I am not planning to do any specific manual tuning. I want to see what the AutoTune comes up with first. After putting one on my prior bike, the included PCV base map was so much better that I just left it alone.

I think the possibility of firing the ignition at the optimal crank location is a cool thing that will do good things for the HP and torque curves. Too bad we cannot change the gearing to take advantage of the power gains. I think you would see better mpg for sure.

Jerry

 

[Ramjet]

Look me up when you're here. Will you have the Spyder with you?

Trying to decide if we should drive or fly. If we drive I can trailer the spyder out we have four of us coming out. But if we bring it I will PM you.

 

[Ramjet]

I am counting on the Auto tune to be real plus for pulling the Spyder trailer.

 

[stewartj239]

There won't be any updates for this weekend and next because we're taking the kids to Florida for winter break. After getting another foot of snow last night, I can't wait. When I get back, I should have the headers / Y-pipe and then will focus on the PCV / AutoTune installation.

 

[Ramjet]

Oh you are lucky man enjoy the warmth I am just heading out to plow the snow we got but it was not that much.....yikes

I ordered my Y-pipe some time ago still do not have it.

 

[stewartj239]

I ordered my Y-pipe some time ago still do not have it.

I think it a took a few weeks for mine to come. The KewlMetal air filter kit is what took forever - something like 6 weeks. It makes me wonder if these smaller vendors are trying to build up orders before doing another production run.

 

[spacetiger]

stewartj239,

I need some info from you please.

There is someone who is fabricating a Y pipe to replace the cat. As I understand it, the PC with auto tune requires an O-2 sensor to be in the loop. That means you need to have an O-2 sensor in the exhaust system down stream below where the 2 exhaust pipes come together. That puts it in the Y-pipe.

Since you are in the process of putting in this setup but have not done so, you are in the best position to measure length of O-2 sensor and possible mounting options. I know the Y-pipe is going to be different, but anything you can do to help the fabricator understand where to place the O-2 bung would be invaluable.

Can you post the length of the O-2 sensor and a pic of where you were planning on mounting it in the Y-pipe you have? This should help the Y-pipe fabricator best estimate where to place the bung on his design.

Thanks
Jerry

 

[Ramjet]

For the single sensor auto tune 16" from the heads is the optimum position according to the Power Commander Guru that I spoke to today.

he is doing the dual channel wide band sensors so he will have those seniors located in the header pipes not the Y-Pipe.

 

[stewartj239]

stewartj239,

I need some info from you please.

There is someone who is fabricating a Y pipe to replace the cat. As I understand it, the PC with auto tune requires an O-2 sensor to be in the loop. That means you need to have an O-2 sensor in the exhaust system down stream below where the 2 exhaust pipes come together. That puts it in the Y-pipe.

Since you are in the process of putting in this setup but have not done so, you are in the best position to measure length of O-2 sensor and possible mounting options. I know the Y-pipe is going to be different, but anything you can do to help the fabricator understand where to place the O-2 bung would be invaluable.

Can you post the length of the O-2 sensor and a pic of where you were planning on mounting it in the Y-pipe you have? This should help the Y-pipe fabricator best estimate where to place the bung on his design.

Thanks
Jerry

Jerry - You do not want to put the O2 bung on the Y-pipe. Here is a quote from the AutoTune installation instructions: "It is recommended to position the weld bung / sensor approximately 6" - 18" from the exhaust port of the cylinder". That means it needs to go on the header pipe.

Here is another quote regarding the cat: "If you have to drill a hole for a new bung ... , we recommend doing so BEFORE the catalytic converter (if applicable)". Therefore, putting it on the Y-pipe is too far downstream.

If you have the AT-200, you only need to weld in a single bung and you can put it on either header pipe. If you have the AT-300, then you need a bung on each header pipe.

I went with the AT-300, so I have marked the spots on both pipes to make sure they are within the 6" - 18" limit and so that they clear all rails and bodywork. The shop has promised me that they will have them done by Friday, so I will post pictures which will show you where the new bungs were welded in.

 

[stewartj239]

For the single sensor auto tune 16" from the heads is the optimum position according to the Power Commander Guru that I spoke to today.

Yes, you beat me to it

 

[spacetiger]

okay, I mis understood how many you needed. Thanks guys on the responses.

Jerry

 

[stewartj239]

okay, I mis understood how many you needed. Thanks guys on the responses.

Jerry

No problem. Hopefully by Friday I'll have photos from both headers that show the new O2 bung locations.

 

[stewartj239]

I am starting to lose patience with the shop that is ceramic coating the headers. They still haven't gotten to them yet. It has been 2 months. I understand that it is snowmobile season and I understand they need to get that work done due to the season, but at the same time I am a paying customer too. I told them that I want / need them by next Friday. They apologized for the delay and said they would have them ready. If not, then I'm finding another shop. I guess this weekend, I'll focus on getting the PCV and AutoTune installed instead. I was hoping to have the pipes back on the bike first.

 

[Ramjet]

Well I have the Kewl air filter on Y pipe on, my Viritka intake body panels should be here next week then off to paint. the room under the Tupper ware when that huge monstrosity if An air dam is removed.

My fuel managment system will not be the Power Commander I will wait till I get everything done but lets put I this way I will be able to adjust the AF on the fly and it will also Auto Tune. uses a Bosch wide band O2 sensor.

I will post more on this later.

I will order the Elka shocks on Monday I am going to heat tape the pipes once I get the bung welded in we have great company in Wisconsin that has quick turn a round on ceramic but I think the tape will work better than the ceramic for heat containment.

 

[stewartj239]

Well I have the Kewl air filter on Y pipe on, my Viritka intake body panels should be here next week then off to paint. the room under the Tupper ware when that huge monstrosity if An air dam is removed.

Sounds like great progress and there is no doubt that the open space will now allow for better air circulation.

My fuel managment system will not be the Power Commander I will wait till I get everything done but lets put I this way I will be able to adjust the AF on the fly and it will also Auto Tune. uses a Bosch wide band O2 sensor.

I will post more on this later.

I definitely would like to hear more about this and how it works.

I am going to heat tape the pipes once I get the bung welded in we have great company in Wisconsin that has quick turn a round on ceramic but I think the tape will work better than the ceramic for heat containment.

I don't want to proclaim that ceramic is better, but in the research I did, that is the conclusion I came to which is why I'm going through the trouble. Since you haven't done either yet, can you share what research you did that has you going with heat tape instead? Since mine has not been coated yet, I still have the option to go with heat tape.

 

[Ramjet]

Here is why I came to that conclusion if you look at the heat sink capability of ceramic vs insulation (heat tape) insulation wins for not allowing heat to migrate.

The coating of ceramic vs the thickness and heat transfer incapability of insulation so fundamentally R value for what you actually have.

Put heat tape in the oven and put a ceramic cup in the oven grab both which one do think will be hotter for longer? I know simple and maybe flawed but that is how I went through my thought process.