Overheated 2013's

[Frank G]

I have been reading all the posts on the overheating issues with the 2013's, and all the "fiixes" appear to be covering up the the real cause of the overheating, whatever that is. There have been several posts that elude to the maping of the engine as the cause. To prove this someone or a group of individules would have to install Exhaust Gas Temperature Meters in two identical 2013 spyders, One with issues and one with no heat issues and compair the results. If the cause is high exhaust gas temperatures then the solution would be to change the air fuel mixtures through a power commander. (I think)

I fly right seat in my son's twin Aztec and the EGT on all 12 cylinders is continueally monitered and is a consideration in the setting of the fuel mixture rato. These insterments can be purchased from Aircraft Spruce although I am sure that there are more economical unites available. Parts that fly are not cheep.

There has to be some engine guys/gals out there that have considerable knowledge in this area. (mine is very limited) Not to be negitive, but if BRP leaves you out in the cold finding the root cause and fixing it may be your only solution.

PLEASE, stay focused with a constructive discussion.

 

[Magdave]

The problem Frank is the PCV just came out and is for RT's only at this point. What you mentioned is one of the things BRP is supposed to be looking at and they have several BUDS reports from affected bikes. You are correct we are using band aids on boo boos right now but in the long term if BRP comes up with some new mapping that works we will all get it. Doing it on our own may very well void our warranty. That is why I am cautious about what I do at this point I believe Lamont when he says they are working on it but it takes time and now that the season is winding down (heat too) there will be less reports. Us 2013 owners hope we get the correct software/hardware fixes for our hybrid 13/14 bikes. When you start mixing things together sometimes things do not turn out as expected. You know Spyderlovers are a passionate bunch and can be stubborn :thumbup:

 

[stewartj239]

It is my opinion that the issue is due to a lean FI mapping. Adding a PCV will fix the bikes that are known to be running lean. A PCV is a very common addition when it comes to 2 wheels. I do not see how this could void your warranty. It is a bolt-on. If someone is concerned, then just remove it before taking it to the dealer. Does an aftermarket exhaust void your warranty? I would hope not!

 

[Magdave]

It is my opinion that the issue is due to a lean FI mapping. Adding a PCV will fix the bikes that are known to be running lean. A PCV is a very common addition when it comes to 2 wheels. I do not see how this could void your warranty. It is a bolt-on. If someone is concerned, then just remove it before taking it to the dealer. Does an aftermarket exhaust void your warranty? I would hope not!

But should we have to pay $500 because BRP maps are wrong? There is none for the ST either what about them?

 

[stewartj239]

But should we have to pay $500 because BRP maps are wrong? There is none for the ST either what about them?

No you shouldn't, but this is more common than you think. Before buying the Spyder, my wife and I rode a Honda VFR800 for 7 years. The VFR was literally unrideable at parking lot and steady speeds around 25-30 mph. The OEM FI mapping was horrible which caused the throttle to be on or off. At those speeds, if you slightly rolled on the throttle, it would not take, then all of a sudden surge. The Power Commander WAS the known fix for the problem and is probably the #1 upgrade for the bike. Honda never fixed it. All I'm saying is that if you have a bike that's running lean and you know you can fix it, why wouldn't you before you do more damage to the bike?

 

[DrewNJ]

Easier and more inexpensive to tune with a wideband AFR than with EGT's but either way, it's so doable. I can't believe more haven't done it.
I've got an MTX-L on my spyder right now because I was curious to see what the o2 modifier does and how things run in the cold weather.

Dave, you say there isn't a pcv for the ST, isn't the ST the same as the RT as far as the motor/fuel control?
I don't see why the RT pcv couldn't be used if neded.
"should" you have to spend the money? No. But sometimes it's cheap money to be done with aggravation.

A MTX-L can be had for about $160 and figure another $20 to have the bung welded onto the exhaust. So for under $200 you'd KNOW for sure if running lean is the issue....

 

[cuznjohn]

auto tune

But should we have to pay $500 because BRP maps are wrong? There is none for the ST either what about them?

it is more than 500 bucks, that is just for the dyno tune but if you want the auto map that reads the exhaust and automatically adjusts the mixture than it is over 300 bucks for that unit also. so we are looking at over 800 bucks if we want to try on our own to fix it.

http://www.powercommander.com/power...rod-type=Powercommander V (Fuel and Ignition)

 

[DrewNJ]

it is more than 500 bucks, that is just for the dyno tune but if you want the auto map that reads the exhaust and automatically adjusts the mixture than it is over 300 bucks for that unit also. so we are looking at over 800 bucks if we want to try on our own to fix it.

http://www.powercommander.com/power...rod-type=Powercommander V (Fuel and Ignition)

Skip the autotune. Just start with a base map and tune it yourself. It's not really all that difficult and you'll find that you can make some nice adjustments the autotune doesn't make.

 

[coz]

car shop

Easier and more inexpensive to tune with a wideband AFR than with EGT's but either way, it's so doable. I can't believe more haven't done it.
I've got an MTX-L on my spyder right now because I was curious to see what the o2 modifier does and how things run in the cold weather.

Dave, you say there isn't a pcv for the ST, isn't the ST the same as the RT as far as the motor/fuel control?
I don't see why the RT pcv couldn't be used if neded.
"should" you have to spend the money? No. But sometimes it's cheap money to be done with aggravation.

A MTX-L can be had for about $160 and figure another $20 to have the bung welded onto the exhaust. So for under $200 you'd KNOW for sure if running lean is the issue....

couldn't you take a ''hot'' spyder to a good car repair shop, that has an exhaust gas analyzer and find out the same information? also have a ''normal'' spyder tested on the same machine for comparison. seems like a very cheap way to get a definative answer. just an idea.

 

[DrewNJ]

couldn't you take a ''hot'' spyder to a good car repair shop, that has an exhaust gas analyzer and find out the same information? also have a ''normal'' spyder tested on the same machine for comparison. seems like a very cheap way to get a definative answer. just an idea.

Great question! I don't know. I've never run into such a place. But a fantastic idea for someone to look into. Sadly though, nobody will.....


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[flamingobabe]

No you shouldn't, but this is more common than you think. Before buying the Spyder, my wife and I rode a Honda VFR800 for 7 years. The VFR was literally unrideable at parking lot and steady speeds around 25-30 mph. The OEM FI mapping was horrible which caused the throttle to be on or off. At those speeds, if you slightly rolled on the throttle, it would not take, then all of a sudden surge. The Power Commander WAS the known fix for the problem and is probably the #1 upgrade for the bike. Honda never fixed it. All I'm saying is that if you have a bike that's running lean and you know you can fix it, why wouldn't you before you do more damage to the bike?

this is exactly what my Spyder ST SE-5 is doing...come to a stop ....RPM's will be 900-2200 (as of yesterday) if you take your foot off the brake it surges forward....then when you roll on the throttle it shutters, shakes and hesitates before it reaches about 2500rpm's and takes off...this is becoming a safety hazard.....but to the shop this week....BRP is saying replace purge valve and mapping.....we shall see

 

[stewartj239]

this is exactly what my Spyder ST SE-5 is doing...come to a stop ....RPM's will be 900-2200 (as of yesterday) if you take your foot off the brake it surges forward....then when you roll on the throttle it shutters, shakes and hesitates before it reaches about 2500rpm's and takes off...this is becoming a safety hazard.....but to the shop this week....BRP is saying replace purge valve and mapping.....we shall see

If anything, I'd say it is the mapping (IMO). I would pin them down to verify what was changed in the new mapping that they give you. In other posts, have you mentioned that your bike is running lean? If so, then the PCV will fix that. If the RT unit works with the ST, then you can find them well under retail. I've seen them going for right around $400. You could call Dyno Jet and ask if it is compatible. I also agree with DrewNJ, you can start with the stock map and make adjustments on your own until you get it right. Good luck getting your bike straightened out. I'm sure it must be pure frustration at this point.

 

[Bob Denman]

Is it? :dontknow:
I've got no dog in this fight... But since Char's bike is acting so VERY wonky; I'd look to a mechanical problem, rather than programming... My reason? Programming is absolutely a mass-produced and mass installed component. These bikes seem to be showing some alarming dis-similairites in the overall quality of the mechanicalcomponents and their installation... :gaah:

 

[stewartj239]

Programming is absolutely a mass-produced and mass installed component.

... assuming they all got the same map.

 

[OWISE1]

Skip the autotune. Just start with a base map and tune it yourself. It's not really all that difficult and you'll find that you can make some nice adjustments the autotune doesn't make.

Why should John or any of the Spyder owner's, with a HEAT ISSUES, have to purchase an aftermarket device to make it right..:banghead: If that might work.

I for one will not do that! It is BRP's issue to make the fix, not mine. To many people think they know how to fix the HEAT issues and are willing to spend their $$$$, if this type of fixes seems to work for them, good.

But then why would BRP make any effort to find a fix if the owners will are willing to do it for them...:banghead:

 

[Bob Denman]

:shocked:
Let my ignorance dance around a little bit for a moment...
Why wouldn't they get the same map? Same engine, same exhaust, even if the intake is different between the models; all of those within that individual model designation should get the same map...
We see huge discrpencies between what should be identical bikes... :gaah:

 

[Bob Denman]

Why should John or any of the Spyder owner's, with a HEAT ISSUES, have to purchase an aftermarket device to make it right..:banghead: If that might work.

I for one will not do that! It is BRP's issue to make the fix, not mine. To many people think they know how to fix the HEAT issues and are willing to spend their $$$$, if this type of fixes seems to work for them, good.

But then why would BRP make any effort to find a fix if the owners will are willing to do it for them...:banghead:

Let's assume for a moment that you really didn't need to throw this gem back out here again...
Is it helping to actually find a solution? NO!
Is it encouraging anybody to try and find a solution? NO!
So why do you do it?
My Dad had a saying about stuff like this: "It's about as useful as the teats on a boar hog!" :gaah:

 

[stewartj239]

Why should John or any of the Spyder owner's, with a HEAT ISSUES, have to purchase an aftermarket device to make it right..:banghead: If that might work.

I for one will not do that! It is BRP's issue to make the fix, not mine. To many people think they know how to fix the HEAT issues and are willing to spend their $$$$, if this type of fixes seems to work for them, good.

But then why would BRP make any effort to find a fix if the owners will are willing to do it for them...:banghead:

You are correct. They should NOT have to. But if I was sitting on a $20K+ investment that had problems that could ultimately cause permanent damage, then I'd be doing everything I could to protect my investment. Just like my prior Honda experience, I doubt BRP is going to anything about it. At some point, the decision has to be made of who takes ownership. Each will choose what they feel is right for them.

 

[stewartj239]

:shocked:
Let my ignorance dance around a little bit for a moment...
Why wouldn't they get the same map? Same engine, same exhaust, even if the intake is different between the models; all of those within that individual model designation should get the same map...
We see huge discrpencies between what should be identical bikes... :gaah:

Sometimes firmware changes during a production run. If issues are found with the earlier units, then tweaks are often made. I'm not saying that BRP is doing this, but I know that this is common in other industries that use software. It's just my theory, but it can't be any worse than your mechanical theory.

 

[DrewNJ]

Why should John or any of the Spyder owner's, with a HEAT ISSUES, have to purchase an aftermarket device to make it right..:banghead: If that might work.

I for one will not do that! It is BRP's issue to make the fix, not mine. To many people think they know how to fix the HEAT issues and are willing to spend their $$$$, if this type of fixes seems to work for them, good.

But then why would BRP make any effort to find a fix if the owners will are willing to do it for them...:banghead:

Really? You spend $30k on a machine and then countless dollars farkling it out with all kinds of other junk and your bitching about having to spend $600 to make it perfect and comfortable with no heat issues??

My stock seat on my RS is pure crap. It's the same crap seat that's been on the RS/GS since 08'. It hurts my ass so much that I could not go more than 100 miles on the seat. My back pain got SO bad that I went to the doctor. The professional doctor told me that the seat I'm riding on is ergonomic ally crap and causing me pain. To add, everyone I've talked to with the same seat has the same problem. this problem has caused me to spend several hundred dollars to make the Spyder rideable.
Now, should I just come on here and bitch and expect BRP to make me a nice comfy seat like the RT has? No, of course not. You fix it so it works best for you and move on.

Remember, all BRP would have to do to totally fook all of you is to simply say the machine is operating the way they designed it, replace any melted parts under warranty until it out of warranty and tell you to piss off.

Sometimes it's easier to do something yourself, even if it costs you a bit, then to be miserable. Be done with this peeps and be happy!...jeesh.


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