Motza
New member
What the hell you guys talking about? Running to the slave, then run to the master, does'nt sound good, to us Yankees up north! Where's the "HAND BRAKE KIT" for us mechanically handicap.
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Lamonster Hand Brake
- Thread starter Lamonster
- Start date
rmcalpin98
New member
So what are the exact parts a person would need to have this MOD done? For the ones that have already dont this MOD which parts would you recommend for the ones that are'nt techincal wizards YET?
aubierules
New member
hand brake
did the hand brake according to lamonsters specs and after 750 miles, still going strong...i never use the footbrake now:thumbup:
did the hand brake according to lamonsters specs and after 750 miles, still going strong...i never use the footbrake now:thumbup:
Hand brake modification - no welding required
I have spend many hours designing a kit, based on the original idea of Lamonster, that could be made without the need to weld brackets onto the footbrake pedal.
My design uses a braket that pivots from a stud and wraps round the underside of the brake pedal and into a position where cable can be attached. As there is only a 10mm gap around the foot pedal boss I had to make the bracket go around both sides of support casting which holds the micro switches for the brake light and over-travel detection.
When the brake pedal is depressed the lever justs hangs there and the cable is kept under tension.
Its easier to look at the photos to get an idea how it works. It took me a day to make and about 2 hours to fit and it works a treat......
Handbrake assy 1
What do you think of it.....
I have spend many hours designing a kit, based on the original idea of Lamonster, that could be made without the need to weld brackets onto the footbrake pedal.
My design uses a braket that pivots from a stud and wraps round the underside of the brake pedal and into a position where cable can be attached. As there is only a 10mm gap around the foot pedal boss I had to make the bracket go around both sides of support casting which holds the micro switches for the brake light and over-travel detection.
When the brake pedal is depressed the lever justs hangs there and the cable is kept under tension.
Its easier to look at the photos to get an idea how it works. It took me a day to make and about 2 hours to fit and it works a treat......
Handbrake assy 1
What do you think of it.....
ataDude
Mod Maniac
Very nice. That's next on my list once I get through fiddling with exhausts.
Thanks for the great pics!
.
Thanks for the great pics!
.
opcorn:
NancysToy
Motorbike Professor
It's not the age, it's the mileage!
-Scotty
handbrake-just an opinion
I've followed all the threads about the handbrake situation and how everyone feels the need to add one.I'll add just MY OPINION!The research BRP has done one the brake mechanism on the spyder more than meets the criteria for a safe operating system on a vehicle of this configuration.It seems to me that some riders cant adapt or break old habits and want the front brake lever as a source of "comfort".I do not think it is an issue of safety concerns that compels some of the riders to look into adding this acccessory to the spyder rather it is that thinkig that "I've always had one before and I still want one now."I checked with a local engineer for and opinion on this issue and we both through contact w/ the people at BRP and brake industry people that the system is designed as it is for the purpose of this motorcycle and the systems it interacts with that was done through extensive research.The VSS and it integrated systems work in conjuction w/ its integral back ups to make a safe and reliable braking system.Bosch worked on this type of system for racecars and aircraft.In the early 70s,I built choppers w/o front brakes and relied on the rear brake only and converted disc brakesystems to early harleys w/rigid frames and NEVER had a problem in a panic stop.With chaning laws I had to add front brakes to successive bikes I built-hated it.I've tested over and over the system on the spyder and found it-IN MY OPINION,to be very adequate for the purpose of this motorcycle.Too often I've seen someone use too much front brake w/near fatal results.How about better rider education.Still seeing motorcyclists hitting the front brakes pretty hard in a panic and flying over the handlebars or worse fliping the bike over.I'm leaving my spyders brake system the way it is designed to work in its present state,works fine,Ol saying"ain't broke,don't fix it!"Some times people don't like to have to make a little change to make a big difference.THIS IS JUST MY OPINION! SPYDER FOREVER!:chat:
I've followed all the threads about the handbrake situation and how everyone feels the need to add one.I'll add just MY OPINION!The research BRP has done one the brake mechanism on the spyder more than meets the criteria for a safe operating system on a vehicle of this configuration.It seems to me that some riders cant adapt or break old habits and want the front brake lever as a source of "comfort".I do not think it is an issue of safety concerns that compels some of the riders to look into adding this acccessory to the spyder rather it is that thinkig that "I've always had one before and I still want one now."I checked with a local engineer for and opinion on this issue and we both through contact w/ the people at BRP and brake industry people that the system is designed as it is for the purpose of this motorcycle and the systems it interacts with that was done through extensive research.The VSS and it integrated systems work in conjuction w/ its integral back ups to make a safe and reliable braking system.Bosch worked on this type of system for racecars and aircraft.In the early 70s,I built choppers w/o front brakes and relied on the rear brake only and converted disc brakesystems to early harleys w/rigid frames and NEVER had a problem in a panic stop.With chaning laws I had to add front brakes to successive bikes I built-hated it.I've tested over and over the system on the spyder and found it-IN MY OPINION,to be very adequate for the purpose of this motorcycle.Too often I've seen someone use too much front brake w/near fatal results.How about better rider education.Still seeing motorcyclists hitting the front brakes pretty hard in a panic and flying over the handlebars or worse fliping the bike over.I'm leaving my spyders brake system the way it is designed to work in its present state,works fine,Ol saying"ain't broke,don't fix it!"Some times people don't like to have to make a little change to make a big difference.THIS IS JUST MY OPINION! SPYDER FOREVER!:chat:
Lamonster
SpyderLovers Founder
In your OPINION how much front brake should a person use on a motorcycle and still be safe?
This is a multiple choice question.
none at all
10%
20%
30%?
40%?
50%?
60%?
70%?
70-80%?
I agree about having more rider education. What rider education have you had, besides building choppers with a rear brake only?
You do know that we're not adding a front brake right? We're adding a hand brake that operates the rear foot pedal so there's no worry about flipping over the handlebars of a Spyder.
You may not be aware that most of the calls and emails I get about adding a HAND BRAKE is from riders with limited or no use of their legs or feet. What would you suggest they do? Quit riding? This is one of the guys who called me about a HAND BRAKE. http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7960 :doorag:
lamonster handbrake answer
Have taught rider ed on every duty station i was on in the Corps30+yrs.Have logged officially over 400,oomi.on motorcycles only.Remember back in the 70s front brake only was the style.As a veteran, I've built cycles for fellow vets w/modified brake and control systems for those w/amputations,limb loss and other disabilities.I'm currently doing one now so a fellow Marine can ride home fm Walter Reed when discharged fm the hospital/rehab center.The points are moot.Given a Perfectly good system that works, I see no reason to do much else.As for how much hand brake to use?It would depend on the riders own choice and experience and comfortablilty.I've riden for years w riders who use little or no front brake.UNSAFE!?Maybe to some but look at allthe insane stuff bikers are doing now and calling it entertainment.To each his own,free country(you're welcome).I've pitched the spyder to many veterans as a way to get back on the road again.its a GREAT MACHINE!!Maybe theres too much happening w the spyders that after awhile the'll be just like all the other bikes on the road.Can't happen.too good.NUFF SAID!!!
Have taught rider ed on every duty station i was on in the Corps30+yrs.Have logged officially over 400,oomi.on motorcycles only.Remember back in the 70s front brake only was the style.As a veteran, I've built cycles for fellow vets w/modified brake and control systems for those w/amputations,limb loss and other disabilities.I'm currently doing one now so a fellow Marine can ride home fm Walter Reed when discharged fm the hospital/rehab center.The points are moot.Given a Perfectly good system that works, I see no reason to do much else.As for how much hand brake to use?It would depend on the riders own choice and experience and comfortablilty.I've riden for years w riders who use little or no front brake.UNSAFE!?Maybe to some but look at allthe insane stuff bikers are doing now and calling it entertainment.To each his own,free country(you're welcome).I've pitched the spyder to many veterans as a way to get back on the road again.its a GREAT MACHINE!!Maybe theres too much happening w the spyders that after awhile the'll be just like all the other bikes on the road.Can't happen.too good.NUFF SAID!!!
Hand Brake
It never ceases to amaze me at the number of people who read these forums and always no matter how it is said seem to miss the point.
Just like in this one all any one is trying to do is keep up good habits for riding thier two wheeler. I personally dont have much experience on a two wheeler, just the last 4 years, and when learning I used both front and rear at the same time but the rear not as much as the front. The reason for using the rear was for that time I had to make a panic stop and I did not want my feable brain to forget that I had another brake.
Having said all this I personally appreciate all the mods people are doing to the sypder and will make the brake modification when I get the time. The modification will like the others in no way interfer with the foot brake it will just give me another way to stop, for example when I am on the highway and have my feet proped up and need to get some braking before I can get my old legs back on the pedal.
It never ceases to amaze me at the number of people who read these forums and always no matter how it is said seem to miss the point.
Just like in this one all any one is trying to do is keep up good habits for riding thier two wheeler. I personally dont have much experience on a two wheeler, just the last 4 years, and when learning I used both front and rear at the same time but the rear not as much as the front. The reason for using the rear was for that time I had to make a panic stop and I did not want my feable brain to forget that I had another brake.
Having said all this I personally appreciate all the mods people are doing to the sypder and will make the brake modification when I get the time. The modification will like the others in no way interfer with the foot brake it will just give me another way to stop, for example when I am on the highway and have my feet proped up and need to get some braking before I can get my old legs back on the pedal.
Lamonster
SpyderLovers Founder
I think it's great what you're doing for your buds. I have two son's in the Marines now and one going in next year.
I am surprised at your answer about how much brake is safe. The MSF teach that 70-80% of your stopping power is your front brakes. I would think that the training you had would have said the same. :dontknow:
Bottom line is what I did does not hinder the stock braking system, it only makes it better. The foot brake still works as it always did, nothing has changed about that. I would think that a guy like you who's been building choppers and modding bikes for his buds would appreciate that.
NancysToy
Motorbike Professor
Well, this has become a lively discussion! First, let me compliment Oldfart on the quality and professionalism of his work. I have concerns about the small size and the grade of the bolt, but it is the best conversion I have seen, bar none. No offense Lamonster.
I agree with others who have pointed out that this is not a front brake, but an additional mechanism to apply all the brakes. As such, it does not enter into any of the controversies about how much front brake to use. With either pedal or hand lever, you will apply all the Spyder brakes...plain and simple.
I wholeheartedly agree that a rider that switches from machine to machine has an advantage with such a system on his or her Spyder. Although I find myself more likely to "grab air" while on the Spyder, than to fail to use the front brake while riding my bikes, I do feel uncomfortable realizing I just had to think about what is going on. "Fail to adapt", not really...whatever you do to brake, especially in a panic situation, must be instinctive and second nature. If you have to take time to think about it, you may wind up dead, and you certainly will stop farther down the road.
Reasons for such an adapter vary. Keeping in practice when you switch rides is certainly a good one. I also loudly applaud the fact that such a conversion can open the door for people with mild to severe disabilities. Why shouldn't they be able to ride? One thing nobody has mentioned is the ability to use the brake lever to stop the machine when not riding it. Pushing out of the garage or into a trailer, for instance.
My only concern is that some able-bodied people, who also ride conventional motorcycles, will get in the bad habit of using only the hand brake lever. This is a recipe for disaster! Yes, 70% or more of your braking power on a motorcycle comes from the front brake. Unfortunately, most of your braking instability in anything other than straight-line braking on a clean, dry surface, also comes from the front brake. Ask any dirt rider about that one! Wet pavement, leaves, curves, oil, even slick manhole covers offer numerous opportunities to crash if too much front brake is applied. Learn to apply it excessively, indiscriminately, or exclusively, and you will eventually experience road rash first hand. Too much emphasis has often been placed on use of the front brake, without explaining that for optimum stabilty and stopping power, a rider must use both together. Fortunately, the Spyder takes care of that issue for us.
I cannot condone, and certainly wouldn't recommend no front brake on any machine, nor would I be as rash as to actually recommend it and cry about laws against it. Not to have and use one on the street is folly. Yes, I have owned drag bikes with no front brake. Was it comforting going 150 mph and trying to stop at the long end...NO! Yes, I mostly ride old bikes with drum brakes, and I have to try to ride and brake way ahead of myself. Comforting, not always...panic stop, I hope not. Write me from your hospital room and tell me how that worked out for you if the occasion arises. Less braking power is less braking power...period! Stopping distances will be increased. You can't fight physics.
Sorry for the long-winded tyrade. I just couldn't let this one slide. I remain among those who hope that BRP will one day double up with a secondary brake lever, and I may even rig one myself one day...although not likely as elegantly as Oldfart has done.
-Scotty
I agree with others who have pointed out that this is not a front brake, but an additional mechanism to apply all the brakes. As such, it does not enter into any of the controversies about how much front brake to use. With either pedal or hand lever, you will apply all the Spyder brakes...plain and simple.
I wholeheartedly agree that a rider that switches from machine to machine has an advantage with such a system on his or her Spyder. Although I find myself more likely to "grab air" while on the Spyder, than to fail to use the front brake while riding my bikes, I do feel uncomfortable realizing I just had to think about what is going on. "Fail to adapt", not really...whatever you do to brake, especially in a panic situation, must be instinctive and second nature. If you have to take time to think about it, you may wind up dead, and you certainly will stop farther down the road.
Reasons for such an adapter vary. Keeping in practice when you switch rides is certainly a good one. I also loudly applaud the fact that such a conversion can open the door for people with mild to severe disabilities. Why shouldn't they be able to ride? One thing nobody has mentioned is the ability to use the brake lever to stop the machine when not riding it. Pushing out of the garage or into a trailer, for instance.
My only concern is that some able-bodied people, who also ride conventional motorcycles, will get in the bad habit of using only the hand brake lever. This is a recipe for disaster! Yes, 70% or more of your braking power on a motorcycle comes from the front brake. Unfortunately, most of your braking instability in anything other than straight-line braking on a clean, dry surface, also comes from the front brake. Ask any dirt rider about that one! Wet pavement, leaves, curves, oil, even slick manhole covers offer numerous opportunities to crash if too much front brake is applied. Learn to apply it excessively, indiscriminately, or exclusively, and you will eventually experience road rash first hand. Too much emphasis has often been placed on use of the front brake, without explaining that for optimum stabilty and stopping power, a rider must use both together. Fortunately, the Spyder takes care of that issue for us.
I cannot condone, and certainly wouldn't recommend no front brake on any machine, nor would I be as rash as to actually recommend it and cry about laws against it. Not to have and use one on the street is folly. Yes, I have owned drag bikes with no front brake. Was it comforting going 150 mph and trying to stop at the long end...NO! Yes, I mostly ride old bikes with drum brakes, and I have to try to ride and brake way ahead of myself. Comforting, not always...panic stop, I hope not. Write me from your hospital room and tell me how that worked out for you if the occasion arises. Less braking power is less braking power...period! Stopping distances will be increased. You can't fight physics.
Sorry for the long-winded tyrade. I just couldn't let this one slide. I remain among those who hope that BRP will one day double up with a secondary brake lever, and I may even rig one myself one day...although not likely as elegantly as Oldfart has done.
-Scotty
deanarm--Lamonster--NancysToy
I totally agree with you! :agree:
I do believe that there are MANY times when a hand brake is advantageous. What Lamonster has done is basically a linked braking system with hand or foot brake operation. Same principle as BMW & goldwing have. I also believe that with the human body the hand has a faster reaction time than the foot. Such as when you have your feet on hwy. pegs. Anyone with a lot of riding time certainly can recall when a hand brake came in handy or saved the day.
I totally agree with you! :agree:
I do believe that there are MANY times when a hand brake is advantageous. What Lamonster has done is basically a linked braking system with hand or foot brake operation. Same principle as BMW & goldwing have. I also believe that with the human body the hand has a faster reaction time than the foot. Such as when you have your feet on hwy. pegs. Anyone with a lot of riding time certainly can recall when a hand brake came in handy or saved the day.
Personally I think BRP took the hand brake lever off (prototypes had one) because the target audience was car owners, not motorcyclists. Complaints of the hand brake lever oscillating was disturbing to those folks, while a foot pedal doing the same was familiar because of ABS brakes in cars/trucks.
It's a big change going from a gas pedal to a twist throttle and some people have trouble making the leap. Adding a hand brake into the situation on top of a hand operated clutch just creates an overload condition that could lead to failure.
If you're BRP and you can reduce part of the potential overload for your target audience then it's a no brainer. Just like those of us who can handle the load putting a hand brake lever back on the bike think that's an no brainer too. :thumbup:
It's a big change going from a gas pedal to a twist throttle and some people have trouble making the leap. Adding a hand brake into the situation on top of a hand operated clutch just creates an overload condition that could lead to failure.
If you're BRP and you can reduce part of the potential overload for your target audience then it's a no brainer. Just like those of us who can handle the load putting a hand brake lever back on the bike think that's an no brainer too. :thumbup:
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