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Air intake, aftermarket
- Thread starter Kc6wfi
- Start date
The only air intake improvement that I know of is the K & M air filter. Do not know if it makes it run hotter, but to help prevent the heat issue. I would suggest riding at night. I live close to Apple Valley (Redlands) Need to get together, and ride some time.
Jeriatric
Thinks out loud
Low desert here. Proceed with caution. Air intake changes, also changes fuel mix. In our climate if too lean a mixture occurs, it could be......big trouble. Talk it over with your tech and do some searches here before you go to far. jmo
Bob Denman
New member
:agree: More air without more fuel equals the potential for an expensive disaster... :shocked: The warmer climate might just make a lean condition become an issue much quicker, than would happen where it's colder.
Caution!
Caution!
jtpollock
New member
If hear is the problem you could look into a product I think its called cool-mat its aluminum looking product with stick on one side I found it here in the Denver area dont remember the price or the percentage of cooling but something to think about. ride safe and enjoy. jtpollock :thumbup:
Found this on the web Heatshield Armor Exhaust Heat Shield .
Found this on the web Heatshield Armor Exhaust Heat Shield .
Last edited:
Bob Denman
New member
I'll grant you that one! :2thumbs: :shocked:
I pulled the pans out from under mine to hopefully let a little more airflow enter the equation...
It's certain that all of the heat isn't great for any of the underbody components! :gaah:
cjackg
New member
more on heat effects of replacing the oem RT Airbox....
since I have been doing just that since I installed the Kewl kit in January. I have found it is possible to get a close comparison on the temp of the air going into the engine (not exact) of the two approaches and I have been doing this for months. First I had my VDO temp sensor mounted right beside the Kewl air filter, then recently I moved it to the area where the original Intake horn was located. Watching the VDO guage on the dash through a lot of different driving conditions and outside temps, I have observed the Intake temps to be regularly 5 to 15 degrees higher with the Kewl kit. The Kewl filter Intake resides in a big open space now and, yes away from highway heat, but there is No airflow through that area. This can be clearly seen by watching my VDO temp gauge go through the roof when sitting idling and then take a while (3-5 min) before temp in that area drops down to its normal level which is still higher than the original Intake.
As I have mentioned before, this flow of hotter air into the Intake concerns me but I have to say I have yet to see my RT running any more bars on the dash Gauge and my plugs look good with no sign of running lean. I do occasionally get the feeling that I need a fuel tuner to adjust the mixture in certain throttle/rpm ranges during acceleration, but after the experience I had with a Juice Box on my first RT, I'll pass on that.
Roger, I am not trying to give you or anyone else a hard time about the air temp and the Kewl kit conversion, but I have spent a lot of time watching this closely and know what I am seeing and it is not an unfounded conclusion. I also believe that the areas where you and I live and ride are not likely to give problems with a little warmer Intake air but if I was regularly dealing with very high temps or riding high performance competitions I would be more concerned. In that case, a fuel tuner could be important. Whether there are any longer term implications of the Kewl kit and the hotter intake air is way beyond me. My RT is unlikely to ever get close to the kind of heat experienced by spyder engines in Nevada, Florida, etc.
Some carefully planned baffles or vents to route more cool airflow upwards in the RT engine compartment could make a huge difference. I talked to one RS owner who had done exactly this when using the Kewl Kit.
Jack
Roger, Guess I am one of those you mentioned as those who have temperature gauges mounted so they can monitor temperatures...
since I have been doing just that since I installed the Kewl kit in January. I have found it is possible to get a close comparison on the temp of the air going into the engine (not exact) of the two approaches and I have been doing this for months. First I had my VDO temp sensor mounted right beside the Kewl air filter, then recently I moved it to the area where the original Intake horn was located. Watching the VDO guage on the dash through a lot of different driving conditions and outside temps, I have observed the Intake temps to be regularly 5 to 15 degrees higher with the Kewl kit. The Kewl filter Intake resides in a big open space now and, yes away from highway heat, but there is No airflow through that area. This can be clearly seen by watching my VDO temp gauge go through the roof when sitting idling and then take a while (3-5 min) before temp in that area drops down to its normal level which is still higher than the original Intake.
As I have mentioned before, this flow of hotter air into the Intake concerns me but I have to say I have yet to see my RT running any more bars on the dash Gauge and my plugs look good with no sign of running lean. I do occasionally get the feeling that I need a fuel tuner to adjust the mixture in certain throttle/rpm ranges during acceleration, but after the experience I had with a Juice Box on my first RT, I'll pass on that.
Roger, I am not trying to give you or anyone else a hard time about the air temp and the Kewl kit conversion, but I have spent a lot of time watching this closely and know what I am seeing and it is not an unfounded conclusion. I also believe that the areas where you and I live and ride are not likely to give problems with a little warmer Intake air but if I was regularly dealing with very high temps or riding high performance competitions I would be more concerned. In that case, a fuel tuner could be important. Whether there are any longer term implications of the Kewl kit and the hotter intake air is way beyond me. My RT is unlikely to ever get close to the kind of heat experienced by spyder engines in Nevada, Florida, etc.
Some carefully planned baffles or vents to route more cool airflow upwards in the RT engine compartment could make a huge difference. I talked to one RS owner who had done exactly this when using the Kewl Kit.
Jack
MrLooney
Senior MOMENTS Member
Engine Temperatures
This is all very interesting to me ! I am very new to the :spyder2: world of mechanics having only some 5K to 6K miles ridden on my :spyder2:. It will still be a few months before I can get back into the Saddle and fingers into its innards to learn more about all this stuff your talking about. Mods to intake and exhaust and concerns about running too lean... What I gather at this point is, the higher elevations and hotter ambient temperatures can cause leaning under certain conditions.
Differences in manufacturing and running conditions of engines from years past 1950's ~ 1970's engines ran cooler than what they do today. My experience was only with the water temperature of engines, Where I chose to use a higher Degree thermostat (195 ~ 210 F) the engine ran a little smoother and performed better.
A case in point I had a water cooled Honda 500 cc motorcycle. The temp gauge never passed above the first 1/3 of the gauge. One Fall day (in Oregon) I covered the radiator half way with plastic (experiment). Yes the temperature gauge did pass over the half way point quickly but not a problem with over heating. The results I found on one tank full of gas was... Engine ran smoother, quieter and fuel efficiency improved considerably. If memory serves me well, it was near 20% better fuel mileage. Needless to say from then on I always had the radiator partially covered 25% to 40%. Cost (FREE)
I hope to learn more about everyone's mods to improve :spyder2: efficiency!!
This is all very interesting to me ! I am very new to the :spyder2: world of mechanics having only some 5K to 6K miles ridden on my :spyder2:. It will still be a few months before I can get back into the Saddle and fingers into its innards to learn more about all this stuff your talking about. Mods to intake and exhaust and concerns about running too lean... What I gather at this point is, the higher elevations and hotter ambient temperatures can cause leaning under certain conditions.
Differences in manufacturing and running conditions of engines from years past 1950's ~ 1970's engines ran cooler than what they do today. My experience was only with the water temperature of engines, Where I chose to use a higher Degree thermostat (195 ~ 210 F) the engine ran a little smoother and performed better.
A case in point I had a water cooled Honda 500 cc motorcycle. The temp gauge never passed above the first 1/3 of the gauge. One Fall day (in Oregon) I covered the radiator half way with plastic (experiment). Yes the temperature gauge did pass over the half way point quickly but not a problem with over heating. The results I found on one tank full of gas was... Engine ran smoother, quieter and fuel efficiency improved considerably. If memory serves me well, it was near 20% better fuel mileage. Needless to say from then on I always had the radiator partially covered 25% to 40%. Cost (FREE)
I hope to learn more about everyone's mods to improve :spyder2: efficiency!!
So, I'm probably showing my ignorance here, but doesn't the Spyder run fuel injection with air velocity, air temp, and air density measuring equipment? Isn't the computer smart enough to know when detonation conditions are approaching and either richen the mixture or retard the spark? If this were a carburetted engine, then I could understand the concern over lean conditions and hot air intake. What am I missing.
Jeriatric
Thinks out loud
About as far from being knowledgeable on the subject as one could be.
That said, what I've been told is the mapping can only adjust a certain percentage in either direction (rich/lean) from whatever its preset is. What that percentage or preset is.....I do not know. If someone does, and can provide mapping data that explains it's range limitations, as it relates to various combinations of velocity, temps, and density's. That would help. Till then, because of our excessive heat. I choose to err on the side of caution, because it's quite possible I'm pushing the richen limits already. Don't have any way of knowing for sure but, not ready to find out the hard way either. :roflblack:
Jeriatric
Thinks out loud
Been asking qestions and finally got my -
Answer(so I'm told): On starts that require pressing the mode button(not quick restarts) the computer establihes a new baseline from which, leaning or richening fuel - occurs. So the baseline from which fuel mix is adjusted Is a moving target. Based on things like temprature and altitude at time of start up. I'm told this came about as a correction to a past problem experienced with Aprilias.
As an aside. This got me to thinking about the 13's, heat soak, and restarts. ????? Just thinking tho.
Answer(so I'm told): On starts that require pressing the mode button(not quick restarts) the computer establihes a new baseline from which, leaning or richening fuel - occurs. So the baseline from which fuel mix is adjusted Is a moving target. Based on things like temprature and altitude at time of start up. I'm told this came about as a correction to a past problem experienced with Aprilias.
As an aside. This got me to thinking about the 13's, heat soak, and restarts. ????? Just thinking tho.
3 Wheel Addict
New member
I already asked this in another thread but this discussion is going there again, the factory air box has to have a IAT (intake air temp) sensor mounted in it somewhere. My question is where does that sensor get mounted with the Kewlmetal air filter kit? If that sensor remains close to the filter then the computer will compensate for the actual air temp around the filter and I think all would be ok but if that sensor got relocated to someplace away say to a cooler location then things could be askew.
CyncySpyder
Teddys favorite human
Teddy says a picture is worth a thousand words
If you look about 6 inches to the left of Teddy, you'll see a wire mounted to the right side of the Frunk in a mesh type of material with a white tag hanging down from it, that is the AAPTS (Ambient Air Pressure & Temperature Sensor) and in its stock location, at least on a 2011 RT-S.
With the Frunk shroud in place, this explains why most RT owners complain that their digital temp on the LCD display usually reads about 6-10 degrees warmer than actual, like readings from banks, GPS, etc..... cause while its NOT inside the engine bay to read those Hotter temperatures, its still under the tupperware and subjected to radiant heat from the sun on the outter tupperware.
Roger is correct, that when you remove the OEM Air-Box there is no other sensor associated with it.
If you look about 6 inches to the left of Teddy, you'll see a wire mounted to the right side of the Frunk in a mesh type of material with a white tag hanging down from it, that is the AAPTS (Ambient Air Pressure & Temperature Sensor) and in its stock location, at least on a 2011 RT-S.
With the Frunk shroud in place, this explains why most RT owners complain that their digital temp on the LCD display usually reads about 6-10 degrees warmer than actual, like readings from banks, GPS, etc..... cause while its NOT inside the engine bay to read those Hotter temperatures, its still under the tupperware and subjected to radiant heat from the sun on the outter tupperware.
Roger is correct, that when you remove the OEM Air-Box there is no other sensor associated with it.
CyncySpyder
Teddys favorite human
Pic of everything OEM Air-box/Resonator removed minus the acutal air-filter itself
3 Wheel Addict
New member
Oh, well I guess it don't matter then. I wonder how they get away without it? Most EFI engines monitor the intake air temp and use that data to adjust mixture based on the temp of the air the engine is actually taking in. If they are using the ambient air temp sensor on the frunk then that must not be data they use for mixture adjustments.
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