Clutch Question?

[NancysToy]

I had my SM5 manual clutch go at about 17,000 miles.
Since the day I bought it, I had trouble putting the bike in Neutral.
I hadn't given this much thought since I've had trouble finding Neutral with other bikes.
I had a lot of discussions with my dealer and BRP.
I was told the RT is a big bike and to expect the clutch to go at that mileage.
I basically said "Phooey------------you mean to tell me that my BRAKES are going to last longer than my clutch ??"
I got the clutch replaced and now the transmission is silky smooth. Finding neutral is a piece of cake.
The clutch had been installed incorrectly from the factory on day one.

The basis of this is gradual failure of the clutch slave cylinder. The clutch does not disengage adequately...getting worse and worse over time. The clutch can fail prematurely as a result. In addition, the slave cylinder can fail completely and suddenly, making disengaing the clutch impossible. Warning signs include dirty clutch fluid at very short intervals, increasing inability to find neutral, increasing difficulty in getting the Spyder into or out of reverse, and progressive difficulty in shift gears. Replacing the slave piston O-rings is a short-term fix. Replacing the cylinder, piston, and all four O-rings is better.

 

[StriperKing]

I have a 2010 RT-S SM5 that I bought from an 83 year young man with 3,500 miles and the clutch was SHOT. When I took the clutch plates out they were black and glazed (burnt). He had also rode all his life but I don`t think he understood the rotax motor not really sure. I now have Barnett clutch plates and I love them. I would not recomend them for everyone but I love them but a low shift point for me might be 7,500 min. I also used the Barnett springs at first but that is an overkill and just wears out your hand so back in went the stock springs.

So for some that like more of the tech info this is for you:
The Barnett clutch plates have almost twice as much friction surface as the OEM plates. The gaps between the individual pads on the OEM plates are almost as wide as the pad surface themselves. The Barnett plates have pads that are twice as big as the OEM pads and very little gap space between them. This is great for hard shifts and performance needs. The bad part is the Rotax uses an oil injected clutch system that injects oil in the clutch basket and the basket has small holes to let the oil pass by the clutch plates through the gaps in the clutch disks that the Barnett plates don`t have much of. This oil also lubes the clutch pin bearing that releases the clutch tenssion at shifts or when sitting at a light or whatever. The problem is with the performance Barnett cluth plates the oil does not get out of the basket fast enough and when you apply the clutch all that oil rushes between the plates and acts like a tourqe converter in a car and wants to still drive the Spyder forward. By forward I mean it still wants to move the Spyder but not drive it and going into neutral was next to impossible because there was always tension on the gears because of not releasing completly. OK this is the part some of you will not agree with. I hate oil injected clutch systems because they do not shift as smooth as non oil injected ones. A slightly dryer clutch plate will shift easier than a wetter one because it does not have the torque converter effect. Clutch plates do not release very far apart at all, just enough to do the job.

This part will really bring out the sceptics. What I have done is to remove the oil jet, solder it shut and reinstall it and replace the open clutch pin bearing with a sealed one that does not need additional lubrication. So now I am running a non oil injected clutch system. The oil is to help cool the plates but Barnett clutches are made to run non-oil injected and are much more durable. The plates still dip in the engine oil at the very bottom. I ran this for about 1,000 miles and looked at the plates and they have an oil film on them as they should. I looked at them at 5,000 miles and everything is perfect. 10,000 miles and they feel perfect but I do not feel the need to look at them any more. So the big question is why would anyone go to this much trouble to change something that works in the first place. In my openion it worked but because of ATV and dirt bike racing and what we would do to get butter smooth shifts, it just did not work good enough for me. KTM runs this same setup and I do not like it there either.

Many of you will know what I am talking about when I say the Spyder SM5 shifts good but maybe a little harder to move the toe shifter than you think it should be and maybe at times pretty stiff and sometimes neutral is a pain in the a_ _ to find. The setup I now have is so easy you would not believe it. If I could reach the shifter with my pinky I could shift with he tip of it and that is no exageration. Neutral falls into place everytime the first time just like it was another gear. It now shifts better than any bike I have ever been on and I would not have said that before at all. This would not be for everyone but maybe a few who are as picky as I am or who can`t keep from playing with their Spyder if they know there might be a way to make it better. This is just another option. I am not saying oil injected clutches are bad at all just not for me. Sorry to ramble on and some bad spelling I am sure.

 

[ThreeWheels]

The basis of this is gradual failure of the clutch slave cylinder. The clutch does not disengage adequately...getting worse and worse over time. The clutch can fail prematurely as a result. In addition, the slave cylinder can fail completely and suddenly, making disengaing the clutch impossible. Warning signs include dirty clutch fluid at very short intervals, increasing inability to find neutral, increasing difficulty in getting the Spyder into or out of reverse, and progressive difficulty in shift gears. Replacing the slave piston O-rings is a short-term fix. Replacing the cylinder, piston, and all four O-rings is better.

Your diagnosis surely makes sense, however in my particular case there was nothing wrong with either the slave cylinder or the master cylinder.
Strictly clutch plates. Nothing else.
From what I understand, the clutch plates need to be soaked in oil before installation ?
If this is not done properly the installation goes poorly.

<===================Hey, when did I get over 1000 posts ?

 

[NancysToy]

I'm glad StriperKing's unorthodox solution worked for him. For the rest of the world, there are a couple of other things to consider. First, BRP also included a new, larger oil jet in their revised clutch packs. Not sure why less oil workeds better for himu with a wet clutch, but their answer is actually more oil. The oil serves to smooth the clutch engagement and helps cool the clutch discs and plates. Second, most severely premature burnt clutches on the SM were a result of a failure of the clutch assist solenoid. This works to help lift the clutch when you pull the lever, but if the solenoid valve fails, it will keep the clutch slightly lifted at all times...resulting in a severly burned clutch.

Yes, common wisdom says wet clutch plates should be soaked in oil prior to installation...but it doesn't happen at the facrtory, and probably doesn't really matter. Carefully checking clutch clearances is far more important...and often skipped.