Gas Octane

[Spyderjuice]

The book says to use minimum of 81 octane. The tech at the dealer said use 93 octane and the spyder would run better. I tried and I think it ran worse for about a quarter of a tank and then it seems to have leveled out. Didn't start well and sputtered some. I'm probably going back to 81 as the book suggested.

What has been the experence or what is the advise of others? What octane are you using? :dontknow:

Juice

 

[zzneonzz]

My dealer also recomended Premium gas and i have tested it with running both on my SE5 and i seem to get about 2mpg more using premium as well as a little better performance. I usually run 89/93 octane as i get better performance using those. Most people here from prior posts are using 87 or Regular. If you do a search on the forums here you will find a ton of information on this subject.

 

[Spyderjuice]

Thanks for the information. I need to learn to do a search before I start a thread. pps:

Juice

 

[boogllasti]

Anything higher than 87 octane is a total waste of money. It will not run 'better' in the Spyder, nor will you get better MPG. It may run 'okay', but many have found it runs worse (including myself).

Only an engine that specifically requires the higher octane will benefit from running it. Period.

Another thing to consider is your 'higher octane' fuel is almost always older - as in not as fresh - as the lower octane. It sits much longer without being turned over because it doesn't sell as much - thus it picks up moisture and loses octane - thus becomes stale.

If you want the rotax to perk up - expensive gas isn't the way.

Add Ken's O2 mod, an aftermarket exhaust, Race Airflow setup and fuel pressure mod - it WILL awaken the beast that has been sleeping in your Spyder!

 

[LittleJohn]

Anything higher than 87 octane is a total waste of money. It will not run 'better' in the Spyder, nor will you get better MPG. It may run 'okay', but many have found it runs worse (including myself).

Only an engine that specifically requires the higher octane will benefit from running it. Period.

Another thing to consider is your 'higher octane' fuel is almost always older - as in not as fresh - as the lower octane. It sits much longer without being turned over because it doesn't sell as much - thus it picks up moisture and loses octane - thus becomes stale.

If you want the rotax to perk up - expensive gas isn't the way.

Add Ken's O2 mod, an aftermarket exhaust, Race Airflow setup and fuel pressure mod - it WILL awaken the beast that has been sleeping in your Spyder!

THEN you might need the extra octane....LOL
opcorn:

 

[zzneonzz]

Anything higher than 87 octane is a total waste of money. It will not run 'better' in the Spyder, nor will you get better MPG. It may run 'okay', but many have found it runs worse (including myself).

I'm sorry but you can not say it WILL NOT get you any better MPG because it did on mine. Wasn't enough for the added cost but it was definately better. As well the spyder ran better from a cold start with the higher octane once again this was on mine. It seems different on a per machine basis. Or maybe it's an SE thing

Best thing to do is try it see if you notice a difference and if you don't then use the 87 but for me i'll stick with atleast Mid Grade.

 

[AMTJIM]

:agree:...SV and Spyder did much better...got 36+ mpg on my trip to Ruidoso. I do also agree some remote locations may not have true octane rating or quality fuel from sitting. I wish there was just one big fuel tank and octane was injected from a different tank according to your choice at time of purchase!

 

[SpyderDee]

SpyderDawg's Spyder was having some sputtering and the engine had even stopped a couple of times. He had made an appintment to have the Spyder taken to the dealer to see what was going on. I read some of the threads regarding using the 87 Octane as opposed to the high grade he was using. He switched to the 87 and once the tank was "cleared" of the premium, he hasn't had any problems.

 

[NancysToy]

Under normal circumstances, premium, like ethanol containing fuels, burn more slowly than lower grade fuels. They tend to have less heat or energy capacity, although that parameter is not directly related to octane. The slower burning will prevent knocking, but less energy cpacity may provide slightly lower miles per gallon. Individual results may vary, due to slight differences in engines or tuning, altitude, and the age or source of the fuel. Use what makes you happy, and makes the Spyder run acceptably.
-Scotty

 

[Smylinacha]

I use 93 in mine and it runs better - doesn't hesitate like it used to and I have better mileage.

 

[boogllasti]

Unless you have a different way of measuring the actual gas being used other than the Spyder gas gauge, I don't think you can get a MPG reading more accurate than within 2 mpg.

If your 'gain' is no more than the potential accuracy of the tools used for measurement - then I don't think you can really bank on the results.

You could run the tank bone dry and put in 5 gallons exactly measured and run her dry - do this with both fuels and see if there is any difference.

I would also be careful using mid-grade as it usually is the biggest ripoff on the market. There is typically no 'midgrade' tank underground - it is mixed on-site by the pump pulling some from the 91 and some from the 87. The ratio can and does vary from station to station.

In the end - higher octane doesn't have more power, nor can it deliver more MPG - that is not what it is designed to do at all.

The sole purpose of higher octane gas is to reducing engine knock. If your engine isn't knocking - higher octane gas doesn't do anything.

The only way you can get better MPG from higher octane is if your engine knocks when running 87 and doesn't knock when running 91.

 

[kiwi]

I beg to differ with the previous accuracy comments and believe it is possible to calculate MPG to at least a tenth of a mile.
Simply fuel the beast to the top,reset your trip meter, ride around till close to MT. Stop at favourite gas station again, fill tank to top. Note the gas added (usually to 3 decimal places on most pumps) Do the math........Magic!

 

[zzneonzz]

I beg to differ with the previous accuracy comments and believe it is possible to calculate MPG to at least a tenth of a mile.
Simply fuel the beast to the top,reset your trip meter, ride around till close to MT. Stop at favourite gas station again, fill tank to top. Note the gas added (usually to 3 decimal places on most pumps) Do the math........Magic!

:agree:

 

[Smylinacha]

Unless you have a different way of measuring the actual gas being used other than the Spyder gas gauge, I don't think you can get a MPG reading more accurate than within 2 mpg.

If your 'gain' is no more than the potential accuracy of the tools used for measurement - then I don't think you can really bank on the results.

You could run the tank bone dry and put in 5 gallons exactly measured and run her dry - do this with both fuels and see if there is any difference.

I would also be careful using mid-grade as it usually is the biggest ripoff on the market. There is typically no 'midgrade' tank underground - it is mixed on-site by the pump pulling some from the 91 and some from the 87. The ratio can and does vary from station to station.

In the end - higher octane doesn't have more power, nor can it deliver more MPG - that is not what it is designed to do at all.

The sole purpose of higher octane gas is to reducing engine knock. If your engine isn't knocking - higher octane gas doesn't do anything.

The only way you can get better MPG from higher octane is if your engine knocks when running 87 and doesn't knock when running 91.

All I know is when I was running 87, :spyder:would spit and cough upon start up. I'd have to let it sit for a little while before I'd take off. It would hesitate in between gears. W/ 93 I don't get any more hesitation. I swapped pipes though so not sure if that makes a difference or not. HDX says I'm getting better mileage - not a whole lot better but better than before.

 

[boogllasti]

I beg to differ with the previous accuracy comments and believe it is possible to calculate MPG to at least a tenth of a mile.
Simply fuel the beast to the top,reset your trip meter, ride around till close to MT. Stop at favourite gas station again, fill tank to top. Note the gas added (usually to 3 decimal places on most pumps) Do the math........Magic!

I fully understand the idea used here to get an idea of MPG.

The accuracy is fully dependent on a few key factors:

What is 'full' or 'top of tank' ?

Was it cold or warm when you filled up?

Was the riding style and terrain the same for both tests?


Many seem to have a problem knowing exactly when the Spyder is full as that totally depend on how far you stick the filler hose in.


Adding the pipe would certainly make a difference in how she runs.

Someone out here (I think Magic Man) did an experiment where they filled with premium and it ran like a dog - then drained the tank 100% on the bench and filled her back up with 87 and she ran like a charm.


I should also mention that altitude and octane have some relationship on how much is needed to avoid the pings.

I have yet to hear anyone say that their Rotax was pinging or knocking - which is entirely different than lag or sputter. Higher octane can only fix ping and knock issues - it has no special magic to fix other problems.

As far as warming up - my dealer told me to always get 1-2 bars before riding - and yes- the Rotax WILL sputter if you don't follow that rule.

As with anything in life - your own mileage may vary---

 

[SLO RYDER]

I've been running 87 in mine and it seems to run fine.

I was surprised to find that my spyder coughs and sputter's as well if I don't let it warm up. I've had a Yamaha FJR 1300 and two BMW's, current one being a R1200RT with fuel injection and can start them and ride off. I was going to contact my dealer and see if they can adjust the mapping to reduce this. A fuel injected motor, in my opinion, should not do this. I'll also try to contact BRP to see if they have a reason that this is happening.:dontknow: Other than that I've only had mine a week but love it.

 

[Smylinacha]

I've been running 87 in mine and it seems to run fine.

I was surprised to find that my spyder coughs and sputter's as well if I don't let it warm up. I've had a Yamaha FJR 1300 and two BMW's, current one being a R1200RT with fuel injection and can start them and ride off. I was going to contact my dealer and see if they can adjust the mapping to reduce this. A fuel injected motor, in my opinion, should not do this. I'll also try to contact BRP to see if they have a reason that this is happening.:dontknow: Other than that I've only had mine a week but love it.

If we could remap this thing, we'd be all over it! Dealers won't be able to and I doubt if BRP will do anything about it - that map is locked up tight in the BRP vault and they will never give up that info unfortunately. Hopefully down the road someday, someone will crack the code and maybe we can remap ourselves - like the old power commander days.

 

[NancysToy]

I've been running 87 in mine and it seems to run fine.

I was surprised to find that my spyder coughs and sputter's as well if I don't let it warm up. I've had a Yamaha FJR 1300 and two BMW's, current one being a R1200RT with fuel injection and can start them and ride off. I was going to contact my dealer and see if they can adjust the mapping to reduce this. A fuel injected motor, in my opinion, should not do this. I'll also try to contact BRP to see if they have a reason that this is happening.:dontknow: Other than that I've only had mine a week but love it.

You,ve got me beat. MY BMW R1100RT needs to be choked (enriched) to start, and held there for a while until it will even fast idle. I can take off then, but it has to stay in fast idle until at least one bar comes on. This is a common trait of the earlier RTs and their fuel injection. So is throttle surge. It all is dependent on the mapping, cold-start enrichment compenstation (if any) and the engine characteristics. The book says 1-2 bars, the dealer says 1-2 bars, and 1-2 bars seems to work the best for the Spyder. Otherwise, be prepared to baby the clutch and throttle. If you want something to compare to, try my 65 Bonneville with dual carbs, and no chokes, just ticklers. You can start it cold, but keeping it running is an art in cold weather.
-Scotty

 

[GA-SPYDER]

:agree:...SV and Spyder did much better...got 36+ mpg on my trip to Ruidoso. I do also agree some remote locations may not have true octane rating or quality fuel from sitting. I wish there was just one big fuel tank and octane was injected from a different tank according to your choice at time of purchase!

Not jacking the thread, but, I used to live in Alamagordo, many years ago, and loved to ride up in the mountains around Cloudcroft and Ruidoso. Sure do miss it.:thumbup:

 

[baldev]

You're way off base dude. Here's how it works; the lower the octane rating, the more uncontrolled the mixture burn is.

In all my life in the gas business that's the biggest croc I ever heard. No scientist or dissertation required and baseless to argue.

I have heard it from some of the best scientist from Texaco and Shell quote " they are idiots who think adding premium gas to vehicles that does not need it will make any difference BUT let them we want their business and the money is good". I have never seen any of those working in the industry add premium gas when not required.
BUT if it makes you happy and YOU THINK it benefits.....................Go waste, I do not care BUT please do not "idiotised" some of us who are sane.