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Stoned! My belt that is!!

NancysToy

Motorbike Professor
Friday, while in another city, I picked up a stone in the rear sprocket. I was passing an area where they were chip sealing the other lane, and must have picked up a stray or two. I immediately heard a loud clicking, and felt a strong vibration ort thumping. Before I could pull to the side, I had a strong jerk like I lost a gear or a belt tooth, and then heard a "zing" as a stone apparently exited stage left. The clicking ceased. I pulled off on the first street and examined the belt and sprockets as best I could without tearing off the body panels at the side of the road, but I saw nothing. No holes in the belt, either. Foolishly, I proceeded. I still had a substantial vibration, but it did get better as I rode, and I was able to do 50-55 without shaking my eyeteeth out. I decided to proceed the 60 miles to home. In retrospect, it was stupid, but it worked out.

Over the weekend I stripped the body panels and took a better look. The belt tension was tight in one spot on each turn of the rear wheel. I found a 3/8" stone stuck in the rear sprocket. The belt was "bruised" (marked) on every tooth, with a shallow indentation on each tooth. There were no holes or tears. I ordered a new belt, and decided to try this one for a while. I dug out the stone. The sprocket was not damaged, save a little "catch" that I could not see but could feel with a screwdriver. The belt was pretty loose to begin with, and that may have saved me. It was far looser by the time I reached home, and the belt had wandered slightly. Despite proper torque on the axle bolt, I'm sure the axle moved a tiny bit.

I realigned the belt, and adjusted the tension. The Spyder is running fine, and is as smooth as when it was new! That was both a relief and a surprise. In the process of inspecting the Spyder, I had found numerous small bits of tar on the tops of some sprocket teeth. These were very flat and hard. I scraped them off and cleaned the sprocket well. I had been noticing an increasing vibration over the past few months. Nothing earthshaking...I just figured my motor mounts had settled and the engine was hitting the frame a bit. I was very surprised that in cleaning the sprocket, that vibration was completely gone! The tar must have been there a while.

Lessons were learned here...even for an old hand like me:

1. If something is obviously wrong, find a place where you can do a proper inspection, or get the Spyder towed in. I could easily have blown a belt on the way home, and been stranded. This is not an old Triumph or Harley that you can limp home on a wing and a prayer. I was lucky!

2. If you have an increasing or annoying vibration, especially at highway speeds, take a close look at the rear sprocket. Evidently any buildup of road debris on the tops of the teeth can cause some vibration. I suspect a non-concentric, warped, or damaged sprocket could do much the same.
 
Thanks for the heads up Scotty. I'm in the Lake Placid area and was on a long stretch of road today that they were milling to repave. I'll be sure to do a thorough inspection before heading out to SITA tomorrow. One more thing that we should add to our pre-flight inspection.
 
Do you think that Spyderpops "missing belt guard" would have eliminated either the stone issue or the build up?
 
Friday, while in another city, I picked up a stone in the rear sprocket. I was passing an area where they were chip sealing the other lane, and must have picked up a stray or two. I immediately heard a loud clicking, and felt a strong vibration ort thumping. Before I could pull to the side, I had a strong jerk like I lost a gear or a belt tooth, and then heard a "zing" as a stone apparently exited stage left. The clicking ceased. I pulled off on the first street and examined the belt and sprockets as best I could without tearing off the body panels at the side of the road, but I saw nothing. No holes in the belt, either. Foolishly, I proceeded. I still had a substantial vibration, but it did get better as I rode, and I was able to do 50-55 without shaking my eyeteeth out. I decided to proceed the 60 miles to home. In retrospect, it was stupid, but it worked out.

Over the weekend I stripped the body panels and took a better look. The belt tension was tight in one spot on each turn of the rear wheel. I found a 3/8" stone stuck in the rear sprocket. The belt was "bruised" (marked) on every tooth, with a shallow indentation on each tooth. There were no holes or tears. I ordered a new belt, and decided to try this one for a while. I dug out the stone. The sprocket was not damaged, save a little "catch" that I could not see but could feel with a screwdriver. The belt was pretty loose to begin with, and that may have saved me. It was far looser by the time I reached home, and the belt had wandered slightly. Despite proper torque on the axle bolt, I'm sure the axle moved a tiny bit.

I realigned the belt, and adjusted the tension. The Spyder is running fine, and is as smooth as when it was new! That was both a relief and a surprise. In the process of inspecting the Spyder, I had found numerous small bits of tar on the tops of some sprocket teeth. These were very flat and hard. I scraped them off and cleaned the sprocket well. I had been noticing an increasing vibration over the past few months. Nothing earthshaking...I just figured my motor mounts had settled and the engine was hitting the frame a bit. I was very surprised that in cleaning the sprocket, that vibration was completely gone! The tar must have been there a while.

Lessons were learned here...even for an old hand like me:

1. If something is obviously wrong, find a place where you can do a proper inspection, or get the Spyder towed in. I could easily have blown a belt on the way home, and been stranded. This is not an old Triumph or Harley that you can limp home on a wing and a prayer. I was lucky!

2. If you have an increasing or annoying vibration, especially at highway speeds, take a close look at the rear sprocket. Evidently any buildup of road debris on the tops of the teeth can cause some vibration. I suspect a non-concentric, warped, or damaged sprocket could do much the same.
After the first time I got stoned I put on the missing gaurd and took it one step farther and made a sweep that rides 1/8 in over the belt to knock off any thing that mite get on top of the belt I also took a spare belt wraped it in leather for heat protection and zip tied it to the upper frame rail on left side it took some careful folding and fitting but it's there under the plastic , I also have the big wrench for the axle nuts I found a car fan clutch one that was thin flat and affordable so now I could put a belt on roadside if I had to
 
Scotty, Thanks for the excellent advice and observations.

I live on a dirt/gravel road which I'm forced to travel every day. When I first got the Spyder I installed the Spyder Pops belt guard. It appears to work, I've not had a stone problem once so far. I can see on the belt guard many marks where the rear tire kicks dirt and stones that would have potentially gone into the rear sprocket.
 
Chip in rear sprocket

Friday, while in another city, I picked up a stone in the rear sprocket. I decided to proceed the 60 miles to home. In retrospect, it was stupid, but it worked out.[snip...snip]

Over the weekend I stripped the body panels and took a better look.
Lessons were learned here...even for an old hand like me:

1. If something is obviously wrong, find a place where you can do a proper inspection, or get the Spyder towed in. I could easily have blown a belt on the way home, and been stranded. This is not an old Triumph or Harley that you can limp home on a wing and a prayer. I was lucky!

2. If you have an increasing or annoying vibration, especially at highway speeds, take a close look at the rear sprocket. Evidently any buildup of road debris on the tops of the teeth can cause some vibration. I suspect a non-concentric, warped, or damaged sprocket could do much the same.

Scotty, the EXACT same thing happened to me:mad: I heard a click, click, click coming from the rear area. I ignored it and drove another 500 miles. By the time I discovered the chip stuck in the rear sprocket every single tooth on the belt was damaged and two teeth were missing. Replacement of the belt cost me $300 at Cowtown. You are correct DON'T IGNORE THE SYMPTOMS.:agree::agree:
 
Good advice & observation.

As I saw the title I figured it was going to be advice on something else entirely ...

and the when I saw the title I figured it was going to be advice on something else entirely,
but then when I saw the title I figured it was going to be advice on something else entirely



OK, rapidly aging hippie here


Yeah....me too!!

.....me too. ;)

:hun:
 
Do you think that Spyderpops "missing belt guard" would have eliminated either the stone issue or the build up?
It's hard to say. The RT belt isn't as exposed as the RS, so I have worried less about it. I have a belt guard here, but never installed it. I suspect in this case, the tar on the stone might have made it stick and find its way regardless. Without completely enclosing the belt, there are no guarantees, but the SpyderPops guards will at least reduce your exposure.
 
Scotty, the EXACT same thing happened to me:mad: I heard a click, click, click coming from the rear area. I ignored it and drove another 500 miles. By the time I discovered the chip stuck in the rear sprocket every single tooth on the belt was damaged and two teeth were missing. Replacement of the belt cost me $300 at Cowtown. You are correct DON'T IGNORE THE SYMPTOMS.:agree::agree:
After 35yr's of shaft drive bikes that cost me a total of 4qt's of 90wt I'll take the slight power loss of the shaft as opposed to the missing belt guard,smooth spyder pulley,kricket gauge ,rt belt vibrations,300 dollar belt,belt whine,counter sprocket spline wear,replacing sprockets,changing belt tension spec's,packing a spare belt and large tools,aligning and rear hub bearings failing, last time I said anything about a shaft 20 people piled on telling me how wrong I was my spyder has enough power for me and I would trade a little power loss for a shaft and some gear oil anyday
 
I agree!

After 35yr's of shaft drive bikes that cost me a total of 4qt's of 90wt I'll take the slight power loss of the shaft as opposed to the missing belt guard,smooth spyder pulley,kricket gauge ,rt belt vibrations,300 dollar belt,belt whine,counter sprocket spline wear,replacing sprockets,changing belt tension spec's,packing a spare belt and large tools,aligning and rear hub bearings failing, last time I said anything about a shaft 20 people piled on telling me how wrong I was my spyder has enough power for me and I would trade a little power loss for a shaft and some gear oil anyday
:agree: I've owned 2 shaft drive bikes and unless you're running on the bleeding edge they're great. With a good shaft drive on the RT's your mental checklist would be a lot shorter as you cruised cross country.
 
Shaft drive bikes have their pains and agony, too. If you have ever had to replace a BMW drive shaft, you know what I mean. Repeated, separate oil changes and occasional seal or boot failures are no fun, either. I have both varieties, plus some with chains. Different issues, different characteristics. None of them are bad...and none of them are perfect. Choose your own poison, and run with it. There is no sense in griping over what BRP, Honda, BMW, or any other maker provided. You knew what it was when you paid your money. JMHO
 
After 35yr's of shaft drive bikes that cost me a total of 4qt's of 90wt I'll take the slight power loss of the shaft as opposed to the missing belt guard,smooth spyder pulley,kricket gauge ,rt belt vibrations,300 dollar belt,belt whine,counter sprocket spline wear,replacing sprockets,changing belt tension spec's,packing a spare belt and large tools,aligning and rear hub bearings failing, last time I said anything about a shaft 20 people piled on telling me how wrong I was my spyder has enough power for me and I would trade a little power loss for a shaft and some gear oil anyday

:agree: My VTX [1800] Was shaft, 20 thousand + miles and never had to do any thing to it.
But the Spyder as does my Tri Glide come's with a belt, So it is what it is. :dontknow:
 
If you get a stone caught between the belt and the sprocket would it be possible to just push the Spyder by hand and let the rock fall out?
 
If you get a stone caught between the belt and the sprocket would it be possible to just push the Spyder by hand and let the rock fall out?
If it won't fall out when you were riding, it probably won't fall out when you push it. Mine was wedged tightly into the rear sprocket. Others have been pushed through the belt. It's probably gonna take some effort to remove the stone if you pick one up.
 
Shafts and Belts--read only after your mind returns from the gutter...

Our RT is the first machine I've had with a belt drive for the road. I'm comming up on 86,000 on a Honda ST1300A, and though the spline lube is pricey, I've only bought it once (doesn't take much). Have heard of less than scrupulous shops cleaning out the lube and not putting any back, causing wallet bruising. The occasional buzz from the RT belt when we get the harmonics just right/wrong really catches my attention. Normally do my own work when I can and I'm related to a gifted motorcyle mechanic, but we're getting close to the 600 mile mark and the Spyder is going to the dealer for the first look.
 
Stones, Tar and Belts

One of the results of my 8K run to Alaska and back was the picking up of a couple stones in my rear sprocket. I found evidence on the belt when I was changing the oil and looking everything over. Two marks, one towards each edge of the belt. The outer one is pretty smooth, the inner one I can feel with my finger. Inspection of the rear sprocket first revealed one recess with a tar/grit buildup in the inner corner. Further rotation revealed a stone clearly causing the inner mark on the belt. No stone for the outer mark so it must have been thrown out. Cleaned all the tar and grit off and removed the stone and tar under it. Photos below.

Unlike Scotty’s recent experience, I had absolutely no symptoms while riding. The belt runs very smooth, no unusual vibrations, no noise, no nothing. Visual examination was the only way I discovered this.

I personally think it will be important to continue looking at the belts when people do oil changes. I installed my new side panel and grille today to make the oil changes easier (difficult to get the original lower black panel off with the bike on the ground, the way I do my changes). But I will continue to remove the side panel above the black panel so that I can inspect the belt and tighten the battery terminals and generally look around.
 

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