Grandpa Spyder
New member
I envy all of you that can buy gas without ethanol, that is not an option where I live.
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ethanol ................
- Thread starter Flight Risk
- Start date
ethanol free
check out http://pure-gas.org/. there is a list for each state. I purchase some the other day at a local station and noticed a distinct difference.
check out http://pure-gas.org/. there is a list for each state. I purchase some the other day at a local station and noticed a distinct difference.
Huntindawg1962
New member
As I understand it from the "boating world" - the problem is not necessarily just the ethanol and its water loving characteristics, but if you let it sit in your tank unused for a while (like in storage) and DONT stabilize it, as the ethanol breaks down it leaves some pretty "nasty" substances behind and that is where you may run into problems with engine parts. Sure, the ethanol in and of itself is not an issue with today's hoses and engine parts (when the manufacturer says ethanol ok) - but the breakdown by products may get you.
Hmmmm - With all this alcohol in our gas anymore - why do they continue to sell HEET at the gas stations? If a little is good, more is better?
There are numerous stabilizers - Startron was the first mentioned in this thread, STA-BIL (get the one that says ethanol - blue as the poster before me said), Sea Foam, etc. Need something if it is going to sit for a while for sure.
I run a can of Sea Foam every 8-10 tank ups for general engine clean up.
Hmmmm - With all this alcohol in our gas anymore - why do they continue to sell HEET at the gas stations? If a little is good, more is better?
There are numerous stabilizers - Startron was the first mentioned in this thread, STA-BIL (get the one that says ethanol - blue as the poster before me said), Sea Foam, etc. Need something if it is going to sit for a while for sure.
I run a can of Sea Foam every 8-10 tank ups for general engine clean up.
Illinois Boy
New member
The debate goes on...
Here is a site with a lot of good information to read about fuel, ethanol, and fuel additives.
This link provides a summary of fuel additives and what to watch-out for, when to use them, and when to not.
http://www.fueltestkit.com/is_gas_additive_safe_with_e10_list.html
There are a lot of other links on this site to the left that further discusses this issue and others.
Here is one on understanding E10 fuel... a list of what to look for and/or what NOT to do.
http://www.fueltestkit.com/ethanol_engine_precautions.html
Given the cost of vehicles, it might be a good idea to read a bit about fuel and the various additives available. There are some you might find are NOT a good idea, while others might be once in a while.
Anyway... this is here for the purpose of helping...
Here is a site with a lot of good information to read about fuel, ethanol, and fuel additives.
This link provides a summary of fuel additives and what to watch-out for, when to use them, and when to not.
http://www.fueltestkit.com/is_gas_additive_safe_with_e10_list.html
There are a lot of other links on this site to the left that further discusses this issue and others.
Here is one on understanding E10 fuel... a list of what to look for and/or what NOT to do.
http://www.fueltestkit.com/ethanol_engine_precautions.html
Given the cost of vehicles, it might be a good idea to read a bit about fuel and the various additives available. There are some you might find are NOT a good idea, while others might be once in a while.
Anyway... this is here for the purpose of helping...
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Schnauzer
New member
Accetone additive
I've been adding accetone{1cap)everyother tank or so in my 99EG for the past year. I noticed an increase of roughly 8mpg more depending on my driving habits. I also recently had my bobber returned after being loaned out for a year. They had only placed around 800miles in that time. I rode it home and the carbs were clogged and running extremely rough. I put 2 caps in and ran 2 tanks of fuel, it seems to have cleared itself up. Our 2011 RT has 23K on it and I have used accetone for an additive. The biggest issue with ethanol is the amount of time it sets in the tank doing nothing. This may be one of the reasons we have not had any issues since our bikes are rode almost 24/7.. my 2 are for sure, my only transportation. Spyder is ridden when it ain't raining to and from work for the spouse. I'm leary of over the counter additives due to the fact they themselves have additive to make it what it is. ie..color/viscosity..I'm not a rocket scientist just an ole skool biker who hates electronics on motorcycles. It only takes 5 positive & 1 negative wire to get you down the road legally. "Not a halfdozen onboard computers"
I've been adding accetone{1cap)everyother tank or so in my 99EG for the past year. I noticed an increase of roughly 8mpg more depending on my driving habits. I also recently had my bobber returned after being loaned out for a year. They had only placed around 800miles in that time. I rode it home and the carbs were clogged and running extremely rough. I put 2 caps in and ran 2 tanks of fuel, it seems to have cleared itself up. Our 2011 RT has 23K on it and I have used accetone for an additive. The biggest issue with ethanol is the amount of time it sets in the tank doing nothing. This may be one of the reasons we have not had any issues since our bikes are rode almost 24/7.. my 2 are for sure, my only transportation. Spyder is ridden when it ain't raining to and from work for the spouse. I'm leary of over the counter additives due to the fact they themselves have additive to make it what it is. ie..color/viscosity..I'm not a rocket scientist just an ole skool biker who hates electronics on motorcycles. It only takes 5 positive & 1 negative wire to get you down the road legally. "Not a halfdozen onboard computers"
pellcitypete
New member
Here in Alabama Hover a suburb of ( Birmingham) uses E-85 ethanol only in there police cars they have more power but less mpg's don't know of any drawbacks but MPG's just my 2 cents:dontknow:
sinkhole
New member
ethanol...
Your Spyder would... get better gas milage.
hyea:
I wouldn't know what to do if I saw a station selling gas that didn't have corn juice in it.
Your Spyder would... get better gas milage.
hyea:
NancysToy
Motorbike Professor
Especially not in a year when over half the nation is in drought, and the food will be in short supply.
BajaRon
Well-known member
1- Upsizing your fuel delivery system to allow for the higher volumetric flow rate required to run Ethanol or E85 for the same power level (compared to gasoline).
This is step 1 for converting from a Gasoline to E-85 conversion 'How To' website. It's like switching your furnace or water heater from Propane to Natural Gas.
Both E-85 and Natural gas have less energy available so to get the same amount of work done you have to increase the fuel flow. Of course you can increase the fuel flow even more (as long as air flow is also increased) to get more HP from these lesser fuels. But you can do the same with gasoline.
And the truth is, it takes more oil based fuels to make ethanol than it would to make the same volume of gasoline and you'd go farther on it. That is why gasoline is cheaper than ethanol fuels.
Oh, you say, but I have to pay more for 100% gasoline than I do for Ethanol fuel. That, my friend, is because the government subsidizes Ethanol fuels. The gas station is getting tax money for every gallon of Ethanol fuel they sell whereas they don't get a dime of tax money for 100% gasoline fuels. This keeps the pump price of Ethanol fuel lower that 100% gasoline. The total price for ethanol fuels is higher, you just don't see the full price tag.
I wonder where all those subsidy dollars are coming from? Probably the 'Occupy Wall Street' people, don't you think?
Amazing logic isn't it! And now they are running your health care!
pellcitypete
New member
:dontknow:
:dontknow:
I'm confused by your logic if what you say is true then why is E-85 only about $.75 a gallon in Brazil
:dontknow:
Its made mostly from Sugar Cane, It grows like weeds over there, And all year!!
Huntindawg1962
New member
Per gallon or per litre? Not sure how old your info is - Found this info on Brazil which makes it sound like even they prefer gas to mixed or ethanol and the prices have rolled the other way.
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Production struggles created many challenges, including higher prices and lower sales. At gas stations, the price of hydrated ethanol skyrocketed, increasing 40 percent in 2011. Anhydrous ethanol, which is mixed with gasoline in flex fuel, tripled in price during the same period. From April 2010 to February 2011, hydrated ethanol sales at gas stations fell 31.6 percent over the same period the previous year. Facing supply woes, the government reduced the percentage of ethanol content in flex gasoline from 25 to 20 percent beginning in October 2011. It no longer became economical to buy ethanol instead of gas. Ticket, which performs consumer research, found it was only cost-effective to buy ethanol over gasoline in one out of 26 Brazilian states in February, and found that in most states the trend remained the same throughout 2011.
MouthPiece
Banged Up Member
Don't get me started about ethanol.
Chris
Chris
BajaRon
Well-known member
I wish it were just my logic. Tragically, it's the facts, though my explanation may be lacking. You have to look beyond the news media and price at the pump. Why is Brazil ethanol so cheap? Read this article from the end of February, 2012.
Brazil sets up $38 billion ethanol subsidy program to stimulate ...
Brazil is using the same smoke and mirror approach that we have here in the USA. If ethanol is really such a great deal, why do we have to subsidize it?
For example, Amsoil. It is more expensive than regular oil, but people willingly pay more for it because they see the obvious advantages. No government subsidies, no government mandates, no coercion to buy the product, just market driven 'Free Enterprise'.
Bottom line is that Ethanol is a bad deal. The only ones that are benefiting are the farmers (and I suspect, politicians). I'm not against farmers doing well. I just don't like it when anyone benefits by producing an inferior product that costs more money. This is another 'Government Knows Best' venture.
This is how the Russians ended up with just one choice for a car and it was a very expensive piece of junk.
Here are some of the issues with Ethanol. Just the oposite of these is true for 100% gasoilne.
1- Readily absorbs moisture which degrades energy available - damage to internal parts lowering engine efficiency and mileage.
2- Repair estimates in the Billions of dollars for damage done by Ethanol fuels
3- Higher production costs leading to higher product costs (offset at the pump by government subsidies)
4- Higher oil usage to plant, fertilize, harvest, transport, refine and deliver than for the same volume of gasoline
5- Average 10% reduction in fuel mileage requiring 10% more fuel to go the same distance as pure gasoline
6- Though exhaust emissions from Ethanol are somewhat reduced as compared to gasoline, when all emissions from manufacturing are considered, total emissions into the atmosphere are higher with ethanol fuels.
7- We are now burning our food when better alternatives (like gasoline) are available.
8- Higher taxes
If people were given the choice to choose which fuel they wanted (without you and I subsidizing ethanol fuel with our tax dollars) which fuel do you think would go away very quickly?
As you can see, I am completely neutral on the subject!
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pellcitypete
New member
Thanks I stand corrected .75 was the last price i heard now I know the truth :thumbup:I wish it were just my logic. Tragically, it's the facts, though my explanation may be lacking. You have to look beyond the news media and price at the pump. Why is Brazil ethanol so cheap? Read this article from the end of February, 2012.
Brazil sets up $38 billion ethanol subsidy program to stimulate ...
Brazil is using the same smoke and mirror approach that we have here in the USA. If ethanol is really such a great deal, why do we have to subsidize it?
For example, Amsoil. It is more expensive than regular oil, but people willingly pay more for it because they see the obvious advantages. No government subsidies, no government mandates, no coercion to buy the product, market driven 'Free Enterprise'.
Bottom line is that Ethanol is a bad deal. The only ones that are benefiting are the farmers (and I suspect, politicians). I'm not against farmers doing well. I just don't like it when anyone benefits by producing an inferior product that costs more money. This is another 'Government Knows Best' venture.
This is how the Russians ended up with just one choice for a car and it was a very expensive piece of junk.
Here are some of the issues with Ethanol. Just the oposite of these is true for 100% gasoilne.
1- Readily absorbs moisture which degrades energy available - damage to internal parts lowering engine efficiency and mileage.
2- Repair estimates in the Billions of dollars for damage done by Ethanol fuels
3- Higher production costs leading to higher product costs (offset at the pump by government subsidies)
4- Higher oil usage to plant, fertilize, harvest, transport, refine and deliver than for the same volume of gasoline
5- Average 10% reduction in fuel mileage requiring 10% more fuel to go the same distance as pure gasoline
6- Though exhaust emissions from Ethanol are somewhat reduced as compared to gasoline, when all emissions from manufacturing are considered, total emissions into the atmosphere are higher with ethanol fuels.
7- We are now burning our food when better alternatives (like gasoline) are available.
8- Higher taxes
If people were given the choice to choose which fuel they wanted (without you and I subsidizing ethanol fuel with our tax dollars) which fuel do you think would go away very quickly?
As you can see, I am completely neutral on the subject!
BajaRon
Well-known member
I don't know a lot about a lot... But I do know a bit about ethanol. Seriously, I believe that if Americans were told the truth about it, we would not be using ethanol fuels. Just my opinion, of course.
pellcitypete
New member
Thanks for the info I now stand corrected :agree: my facts where obviously out dated! I thought I had posted earlier but I see it didn't post. I wasn't trying to start a up roar just had outdated facts.:spyder2:
BajaRon
Well-known member
It's all good. Didn't take it that way. I made statements that no one is obligated to agree with. You asked for verification (which is just fine with me) and I tried to give it.
Everyone comes away from a discussion with their own conclusions and I wouldn't have it any other way. The main thing is that everyone feels free to throw in their 2 cents.
