Front Tire wear !

[BlueKnight]

We'll find out, my dealer is pretty good.....

 

[bikeguy]

I have 25,400 on the original front tires and they look like they have quite a few miles left in them. I wore out 2 OEM rear tires in just over 14,000 miles but now have 11,000 miles on a Kumho Ecsta with pretty good tread left on it. My guess is that you have a pretty serious alignment problem.

Cotton

 

[NancysToy]

JMHO...It needs an alignment check. If it meets spec, have them add a couple of mm more toe-in. A heavy rider, or frequent passenger load can cause the RT to toe out too much. Adjustment is much like a race car...the factory spec is just a starting point. Note: this is not a factory approved solution.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

OEM TIRE RECORD

Bikeguy, I think you are headed for the new mileage record.....please keep us informed this is very interesting....Mike...:agree: :thumbup:

 

[NancysToy]

I have to believe the toe is wrong to cause that much wear. The adjustments have to be made with full weight on the wheels as the toe changes as the machine rises and falls. I would guess 1/4" toe in would be about right.

I expect my RT's (not spyder) front tires to go 50-60k as they are still like new at 18k & 22k right now. I run 3/8" positive toe but have 1 degree camber so I have to run just a bit more than the spyders.

1/4" toe-in (on the ground) is way too much for almost any vehicle with radial tires...and certainly for the Spyder. Something around 3/32" (unloaded) works much better.

 

[rnet]

I believe the owners manual say's 0

 

[NancysToy]

Wait 1/4" is way too much but 3/32 is fine

zero is probably OK but from what I have read most people are bolting 2x4's to the hubs and trying to set the toe that way. And they are actually ending up with a toe out setting or at best a guesstimate setting.
Remember the toe is measured at the tire or roughly 12" from the axle front and rear.

The tire type has nothing to do with this adjustment, it's all geometry and radial or bias if it's right it's right and wrong is still wrong. Best practice is actually the easiest - just lean a 24" 2x4 against each wheel and center, no bolts required. Measure front and rear then adjust the tierods until you have 1/4"
It really is a 10 minute job and this is the most accurate way it can be done. Adjusting one tierod more than the other will not cause the RT to pull to one side it will just set the handlebars crooked. The only thing that will make the unit pull to one side or the other is a dragging brake to uneven camber. Camber is non-adjustable so toe is the only thing to adjust, it is by far the simplest of things. If setting to zero and you still get inside wear then you have to go with the toe in. This is just common sense. Evidently zero is not right as I see fairly fast wear rates being reported. 40 to 50k plus is well within reason front and rear.

Also keep in mind as you turn your toe angles change dramatically so if the radius progression is not correct (factory setting) and you do a lot of cornering vs straight line then you may need to compensate by adding the toe in.

I see your point. Perhaps my answer was too strongly stated. 1/4" will be too much for a Spyder, however, 3/32" is less than half of that. You are shooting for zero toe-in, on the ground, fully loaded. 3/32" unloaded seems to be a good target for most riders, less if the rider is light. Hard to achieve the right setting since it changes on the RT with suspension height. Modern vehicles, with radial tires utilize less toe-in than their bias-ply ancestors. Most manufacturers shoot for zero to 1/8" nowadays...but those vehicle probaly change much less with suspension loading, and auto suspensions don't move as far when a driver gets aboard.

I respect your knowledge and experience, but your experience with Spyders seems to be nil. They are different critters. Some of the procedures you suggest will cause real problems for many owners, especially if they don't adjust carefully. The nanny gets real angry if the steering is screwed up! It doesn't take much to accomplish that.

 

[NancysToy]

The geometry is still the same and tire type is still a non-factor. One does not need to have spyder experience as from that standpoint is it still geometry it is still the same. What applies for a gravel truck also applies for cars buses and RT's.
As far as the nanny thing, well that's another item all together. I guess it is a touchy system to put it kindly.

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. Your geometry book and mine seem to differ, and the tire types do enter into the equation as far as Detroit is concerned. Maybe things are different elsewhere, but I'm from Michigan. I will certainly agree that Miss Nanny is touchy.

At any rate common sense - if the front end is set by the book and the tires still scrub - I would burn the book and use common sense to adjust mine. I guess I don't have a book so that's how I did do it

Now that I will agree to wholeheartedly...and that's the root of the problem. With flawed geometry that causes the toe-in to change (a lot) as the vehicle height changes, the Spyder seems to be one of those vehicles that would have to be indvidually adjusted for every rider/load combination. Of course this is not possible, so certain compromises are going to be in order. What I wouldn't give for proper front end geometry and fully adjustable alignment on the Spyder.

 

[rnet]

Every spyder that has gone through my sons tire shop has had at least a 1/4" toe-out. Been setting them at 0 loaded with good results. Had to adjust the camber on mine and that can be done if it has to much neg camber.

 

[BlueKnight]

Update

Well, dealer said steering rod apparently loosened up and messed up the alignment.
Dealer covered the cost of the alignment, did the throttle update, changed out a brake spring, replaced my turn signal switch (problem with left turn switch) and replaced both front tires ( which is all I had to pay for...74.95 ea plus mounting).

 

[NancysToy]

Well, dealer said steering rod apparently loosened up and messed up the alignment.
Dealer covered the cost of the alignment, did the throttle update, changed out a brake spring, replaced my turn signal switch (problem with left turn switch) and replaced both front tires ( which is all I had to pay for...74.95 ea plus mounting).

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[matcomike]

Now that I will agree to wholeheartedly...and that's the root of the problem. With flawed geometry that causes the toe-in to change (a lot) as the vehicle height changes, the Spyder seems to be one of those vehicles that would have to be indvidually adjusted for every rider/load combination. Of course this is not possible, so certain compromises are going to be in order. What I wouldn't give for proper front end geometry and fully adjustable alignment on the Spyder.

The condition you are describing is called bump steer. It can be corrected by altering the height of the outer tie rod end versus the inner tie rod end. Inner rib wear is caused by too much negative camber. Raising the ride height will help this, but may also affect and worsen bump steer. Too much toe (out or in) will cause "feathering" across the tread, and sometimes cupping.

 

[NancysToy]

The condition you are describing is called bump steer. It can be corrected by altering the height of the outer tie rod end versus the inner tie rod end. Inner rib wear is caused by too much negative camber. Raising the ride height will help this, but may also affect and worsen bump steer. Too much toe (out or in) will cause "feathering" across the tread, and sometimes cupping.

To some extent, I agree. You describe the classic scenario. Unfortunately, only the toe-in is adjustable on a Spyder, and adjusting the toe-in typically takes care of the uneven tire wear. You can't argue with real-world results. Is there a camber issue involved...probably, especially with a heavy rider. Is there feathering of the tread...yes, but just not as noticeable as the inner tread wear...which is generally confined to the edge tread only, which can also be a sign of toe-in issues. A poorly aligned Spyder does not exhibit bump steer as much as merely following contours or darting, which happens on either bumps or crowned roads. That is typical of toe-in issues. A Spyder that is aligned (toe-in) properly for the rider/cargo weight handles well, and does not exhibit the tire wear or wandering seen in the Spyders described above.