09 RS - HID question answered

[Motavar]

1/23/11
UPDATE #2

I traced the wires to the fog light button and found it connects to a 4-wire connector. I pulled the connectors apart and cut the 4 wires away from the connector that goes back to the fog light button.

*I wired the black and red wires to the aux hot power lead in the fuse box (the purple/yellow stripe wire).
*The blue wire I ran to ground
*The other black I ran to my HID relay harness HOT (red wire).


Problem solved!

I can now start the spyder with the fogs on


QUESTION: My fog light button is always lit now (when the key is in).
Was the fog light button always lit? or only lit when the fogs were on. I forget :/

 

[Motavar]

1/23/11
UPDATE #3

I played around with the fog light wired to the aux with the fog HID pulling power from the battery and it was randomly kicking the VSS fault still. Not as much but it was still there.

I upgraded Main Relay #2 to a 35 amp and the problem was less but still there. At this point the battery is low after power on/off on/off so I'm not sure if that is making a difference?

This points to another thread where one of the guys on the forum talked to someone at BRP and they mentioned to use caution when hooking stuff directly to the battery.

Something isnt right..
If Lou is correct and the HID ballast sitting on the frame is causing interference to go through the wires and cause the VSS faults wouldn't this point to a shielding issue with OEM cables?

If its a power demand issue.. then I'm wondering if a 12v capacitor on the power line would solve the HID issue. Still strange.

 

[Motavar]

To be honest I'm really not concerned over the HIDS.. I'm worried about what can actually trigger the VSS fault and shut the engine down.

When the engine dies you cannot restart the vehicle unless you pull the relays.

This is a dangerous situation if you are on a highway doing 70+ and you encounter loss of power and no ability to restart the engine.

Makes me wonder if interference from a cell phone in a trunk could trip it.. or demand from heated grips trip it... or hit water and too much VSS would overload the relays and trip the engine.

I sense a greater problem for those that mod their spyders.


Edit: I wonder if my issue could be grounding to the frame instead of grounding to the battery.
Research continues.

 

[SpyderWolf]

To be honest I'm really not concerned over the HIDS.. I'm worried about what can actually trigger the VSS fault and shut the engine down.

When the engine dies you cannot restart the vehicle unless you pull the relays.

This is a dangerous situation if you are on a highway doing 70+ and you encounter loss of power and no ability to restart the engine.

Makes me wonder if interference from a cell phone in a trunk could trip it.. or demand from heated grips trip it... or hit water and too much VSS would overload the relays and trip the engine.

I sense a greater problem for those that mod their spyders.


Edit: I wonder if my issue could be grounding to the frame instead of grounding to the battery.
Research continues.

If you turn the key on and off 3 times, that is usually enough to clear most of the codes that will are displayed and let you start the Spyder again. Every once in a while you will be forced to remove the key from the ignition though. I agree that is definitely not an issue you want to have while running down the highway at 70.

Best of luck getting it sorted out.

 

[NancysToy]

QUESTION: My fog light button is always lit now (when the key is in).
Was the fog light button always lit? or only lit when the fogs were on. I forget :/

The factory foglight switch is only lit when the foglights are on...if it is correctly wired and is not defective. There were a few faulty installations...mostly reversed polarity for the LED.

 

[Machinegunner]

We ran separate fused wires for fog lights and head lights. We installed 30AMP relays and triggered then with time delay circuit in the fuse box. This way yhe high voltage shock to the system happens before the motor starts. Our bikes start every time. We also have switches to shut off headlights or foglights independently. If we shut off any HID lights prior to starting the engine and then turn them on after the bike starts, we get all the fault codes. Sometimes the motor will shut down. My thinking is that it is the high voltage spike that computer can't handle, not interferrance. My 2cents worth!

 

[Motavar]

I agree, I have the same issue.

Voltage?
I'm wondering if something like a 12volt capacitor (used in car stereo installations where they hook them up to stereo AMPs) would cure the situation. But doesn't the HID use less power compared to stock fogs? So why does the HID cause the problem and not stock fogs?

Noise?
Thinking about what Leo said before with interference and seeing a Check Key/ DESS error a few times makes me wonder if the ballast causes interference with the Spyders security when it fires up. So maybe its not a power issue.. maybe its a noise issue to nearby electronics.

If it was a power issue wouldn't my Oxford heated grips, my Stereo with the bass kicking, and the GPS running be drawing even more power that the Spyder would cry fault.

hmm..
I think I may relocate the ballasts this week, grab my volt meter as well, and run a few more tests.

 

[Motavar]

And spyderwolf..

where is a pic of your 55w lights in place? Pix or it never happened
hehe

 

[Machinegunner]

The voltage spike is the problem. HID lights use way less current when running, but have a very large surge when igniting the arc.

 

[Motavar]

I just read online that other people with motorcyles have the same problem with running 4 HIDs and their electrical systems are weak. I guess the startup of the HID is 20AMP.

Seems like some places sell kits for this:
http://www.yanashiki.com/HID_Capacitor_p/hid%20capacitor.htm

But one guy was saying for less than $2 at radio shack you can pick up a 470µF 35V capacitor or 4700µF 35V capacitor

 

[SpyderWolf]

And spyderwolf..

where is a pic of your 55w lights in place? Pix or it never happened
hehe

Ask, and you shall receive. Here is a pic of my 55 watt 6,000K headlights, and 35 watt 3,000K fog lights:

I didn't bother turning on any of my extra LED lighting for that shot, as I was in a bit of a hurry to fulfill your request.

I also believe the main issue with the VSS fault is the initial power draw on the battery. Once I let the Spyder warm up, I am able to turn the fog lights on and off without any issues at all. It is an easy thing for me to just be sure I turn off the fog lights before I shut down the Spyder, and then I don't have any issues to worry about.

Nothing has happened to me at speed with the HID lights installed, at least so far. :thumbup:

 

[Motavar]

Nice man! It's looking badass!

I'll try to hit radio shack tomorrow after work.

 

[SpyderWolf]

I discovered a very interesting phenomena when trying to make a video using my camera. For some reason the camera does not pick up the 6,000K very well at all, and once I turn on the 3,000K the color totally washes out the others. It is not that way to the naked eye, just the way it worked in the camera. It didn't turn out too bad with a building as a backdrop, but once I went to an open field the camera did not show the headlight color and view, even when putting them on bright. It may be that the distance I was seeing, the other end of 5 acres, was just too far for the camera to pick up.

All I can say is these bad boys light up the road extremely well, and I am very happy I went with the HID. :thumbup:

 

[SpyderWolf]

Might as well keep all of this in the same thread, here is the video I was talking about above. You can notice a very distinct line where the HID fog lights meet the headlights.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBAUIgc21Ro[/ame]

 

[reggystan]

Very cool, awesome videos of comparison. Very nice:thumbup:

Might as well keep all of this in the same thread, here is the video I was talking about above. You can notice a very distinct line where the HID fog lights meet the headlights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBAUIgc21Ro

 

[SpyderWolf]

Very cool, awesome videos of comparison. Very nice:thumbup:

Thanks! I like them a whole lot as well.

 

[Motavar]

I picked up my 4700uf 35v capacitors the other night. I'll do the install this weekend and take pictures. I'll post my findings to see if this solves the initial startup voltage issues for the HIDs.
They were $5 each at Radio shack.

btw: great video wolf.

 

[SpyderWolf]

I picked up my 4700uf 35v capacitors the other night. I'll do the install this weekend and take pictures. I'll post my findings to see if this solves the initial startup voltage issues for the HIDs.
They were $5 each at Radio shack.

btw: great video wolf.

It will be interesting to see what results you get with those. As you could see in the video, I have no problem turning them on and off while the Spyder is warmed up and running, it is just the initial cold start that will sometimes cause a problem on mine. I have been able to start it with the fogs on without any problems a few times as well, but it is basically guaranteed they will work after the Spyder is running.

 

[Motavar]

I hooked up the 4700uf 35v Capacitor to the + positive wire that goes from the battery to HID relay. It sits right before the relay.
Seems to have solved my problem.
I can start the spyder now with the fogs on or off. I can turn the fogs on when the spyder is running.
I can flash the fogs on/off like a gazzilion times without the spyder faulting now.


View attachment 10181
So looking at the relay the cap would attach to the main power wire and the neg side of the cap to the ground.
Here is the layout

View attachment 10182
Closer shot as to how I'm going to attach the cap to the wires.
Basically I will strip away some shielding on the cables and just wrap the leads from the cap to the wires and solder

View attachment 10183
Picture of the cap

 

[Motavar]

Remember though.. when I get ready to start my Spyder my stereo is running, my leds are on, the GPS kicks up, the headlight HIDs will fire, etc etc.. so I could be drawing more power than most people on start or when the spyder is running.

Maybe a need a marine deep cycle battery

Wolf,

Are you running stock battery or a replacement?
BTW: I really like your yellow fogs with the yellow LEDs man. That matches perfect!