Symptoms of eratic idle behavior

[TicketBait]

Back in November I had my spyder towed to the dealership because it was not able to start with a smooth idle of 1300-1400. The Rpms at start up would range and fluctuate between 1700 to 2200 rpm And if I tried to paddle shift it to first gear you would hear a loud thumping/tapping sound like a machine gun or jack hammer being used, so I would immediately put it back in neutral and the awful sound stopped but not the rough idle. And the check engine light might come on. Not always.


After inspecting the bike the dealership found a crack in my exhaust and after taking off the exhaust and putting one on from a new bike determined that the leak in the exhaust which you could audibly hear a twang higher tin pitch was the culprit. They said that it fouled the spark plug and so that was why the rough idle.


I rode the bike after my 12K mile service with 2 new spark plugs. The problem with the rough idle on start up occurred again with no codes being thrown after about 300miles No check engine light. When the rough idle occurred I simply rev-ed the engine to a steady 2700 rpms for about 4-5 seconds let off, turned the bike off and then restarted and some times it would work and act normal and sometimes not. I talked to the mechanic and he said the computer something or nother was trying to read the correct sensor idle response. And this could be normal.

I put on another 800 miles and decided to take a trip 300 miles north.

Well it happened after riding the bike 275 miles from my house, I pulled into a chevron gas station and everything was going great. Put in gas and when I went to start it through a orange screen EBF fault ( or something like that) really fast and then rough erratic idle, followed by check engine light coming on and then the bike shutting down on it's own. I tried to restart and rev higher but sometimes you would here a backfire and then it would shut down or just continue with idle between 1700-2250 . I call the mechanic and while I am waiting on the phone I try again and it starts up fine, so I hang up and ride to my destination 25 miles away.

When I get there I call my mechanic and he explains I probably got some bad fuel and this is what caused the issue. He said to let the bike sit and try it again after 5 to 10 minutes that each time the computer sensor is checking the fuel value ratios( something to that effect, )

Now I am at Corbin and when I go to test ride my seat before they make it, it happens again. Got it to work after about 15 minutes. I decide to leave the bike overnight and they drive me to the motel and pick me up next morning. I was afraid that if it didn't start I might be late and not get my new saddle. Yes it was embarrassing, but hey all I wanted was my new seat and crossing my fingers i would make it home. Since I had the new seat, I stopped at gas stations the first 200 miles home without shutting the bike down. I just had it idling with brake on in neutral while I put in gas.

At the last stop I decide to shut her down since I am only 70 miles from home and I have AAA 100 mile tow.While at the Shell gas station I put the gas in real slow and stand back to take a picture at the pump, and wouldn't you know, I over filled the tank. (Dang) I remember Nancys Toy Scotty saying that was not a good thing, and I created another problem . Well the bike started right up just fine. And I rode her home. The next day no issues, I started her up probably a dozen more times.

The check engine light is no longer on .



Worse things could have happened I suppose, but this little issue kept me from taking the pacific coast highway ride back home because it was 2 1/2 hour longer and I figured possibly harder to get to a dealership via tow truck than the main highway (bummer, now I have to take this ride again)



What is causing these symptoms to occur, my dealer said it was maybe bad gas. I wanna ryde to spyderfest but don't wanna get stranded if there is something I can check or do now. I currently have 13,700 miles, I will be getting an oil change at 15K and will have them replace spark plugs every 3k miles to help prevent this from occurring. Just before I leave for the big tripI will have them do the big service at 18K . Even if it is a little early. Spyderfest is 1700+ miles one way.

I guess there are no guarantees, but there must be a solution to this. Could my aggressive riding style where I like being first off the line at stop lights or the high reving engine or ..........( i don't know I am frustrated) Please give me good suggestions to solve this so i can get the mechanic looking in the right direction. If you need more info I will try to help. My mechanical language is limited.

TicketBait

 

[boborgera]

I had almost the same symptoms, turns out it was a bad spark plug wire.
The wires are easily damaged, And if there not totally broken they'll intermittently ark and then cause stalling and erratic idle.opcorn:

 

[NancysToy]

My 2010 RTS had similar problems. They never were completely resolved. My dealer has said they have a few others with those issues. I will say that you are in dire need of a new technician. He sounds like he is making excuses and guessing, instead of testing and talking to the BRP tech folks. My RTS was helped a lot by replacing the entire ignition (coil and plug wires, as well as the plugs), plus the ECM. It still killed plugs freuently, however. I hope your tech gets his head together, and decides to try harder to chase the problem, instead of giving you the run around. In his defense, intermittent problems are sometimes hard to find...but you have to look before you can find them.

 

[TicketBait]

I had almost the same symptoms, turns out it was a bad spark plug wire.
The wires are easily damaged, And if there not totally broken they'll intermittently ark and then cause stalling and erratic idle.opcorn:

Thanks, I will have them replace the wires too then when they change the spark plugs.

My 2010 RTS had similar problems. They never were completely resolved. My dealer has said they have a few others with those issues. I will say that you are in dire need of a new technician. He sounds like he is making excuses and guessing, instead of testing and talking to the BRP tech folks. My RTS was helped a lot by replacing the entire ignition (coil and plug wires, as well as the plugs), plus the ECM. It still killed plugs freuently, however. I hope your tech gets his head together, and decides to try harder to chase the problem, instead of giving you the run around. In his defense, intermittent problems are sometimes hard to find...but you have to look before you can find them.

Thanks, for the words of advice, and I will ask the tech to speak more slowly so i can understand ( he has a heavy Argentine accent and talks a mile a minute) if he has thoroughly examined the coil, ECM and other things you mention.

Maybe everyone knows this, but I'll post it here just the same.

Because those active fault codes go by so d**n fast you can retrieve them with the BRP three finger salute ...

That is, by simultaneously pressing MODE - SET - TURN SIGNAL(cancel)

I did this once before and I believe that although I can retrieve the fault code it also causes it to be removed from memory, where by when I take it in to the shop and they put it on buds it's been removed, and then they can't help me, unless it's on my dime.

Am I correct?

 

[NancysToy]

Maybe everyone knows this, but I'll post it here just the same.

Because those active fault codes go by so d**n fast you can retrieve them with the BRP three finger salute ...

That is, by simultaneously pressing MODE - SET - TURN SIGNAL(cancel)

This only shows active fault codes. You need BUDS to see the previously occurred codes.

I did this once before and I believe that although I can retrieve the fault code it also causes it to be removed from memory, where by when I take it in to the shop and they put it on buds it's been removed, and then they can't help me, unless it's on my dime.

No, I don't think so.
The only way fault codes can be cleared is with the BUDS software.

The only codes you can read using this method are active fault codes.

An active fault code gets put on the the Occurred stack after it is no longer active but can be retrieved, read and cleared using the BUDS software.

Roger is right, in that you can only clear the occured codes via BUDS...or by having so many the stack gets full and pushes out the old ones, or by leaving the battery disconnected. It is possible the technician is not pulling up the codes right immediately, then doing something else that clears them, but it is not likely.

Unfortunately there are glitches that can occur that will not cause any fault codes. For example, a bad plug wire won't show a misfire code as long as the spark goes somewhere...even if directly from the wire to the head. Many modern technicians do not understand this...and think the computer tells all. With my RTS, that was not the case, and it may be such with yours. At times like those, you need more than a technician, you need a mechanic, too.....and maybe a Ouija board.

 

[NancysToy]

Er ... I think I said active codes...

Leaving the battery disconnected won't do it either, the codes are written into non-volatile RAM and are preserved without Vbatt.

pps: Yeah, missed it completely. Not sure about all the occurred codes, but most of them are erased after the battery has been disconnected for a while. I have done this, and the dealer has demonstrated how it has happened. If some are not erased, it wasn't the ones we had on Nancy's RS.

 

[Lamonster]

The codes are written to non-volatile RAM so it must have been a really strange occurrence for them to disappear.

They are wriitten in the same area that keeps the mileage count and other info that shouldn't go away even when your battery does.

That's what I've been told by a BRP tech. Disconnecting the battery does nothing.

 

[TicketBait]

Maybe everyone knows this, but I'll post it here just the same.

Because those active fault codes go by so d**n fast you can retrieve them with the BRP three finger salute ...

That is, by simultaneously pressing MODE - SET - TURN SIGNAL(cancel)

OK I turned the key to the start position and then pressed mode once. Then I followed your directions
and simultaneously pressed all 3. the screen went blank. I then turned off key and then turned back on and what was displayed was on display cluster: P0000

I also started her up and did the same 3 finger salute and the same code showed P0000

So what does that code mean?

 

[Lamonster]

Nothing :doorag:

 

[TicketBait]

Nothing :doorag:

So that means that the screen went Orange, & check engine light came on, and said some letters real fast like EBM fault and then the check engine light goes away, and it was all a false never happened (weird)

Well so far I have ridden the bike with about 20 more start ups over the last 2 days and the previous problem has not reoccurred. :clap: I am gonna have them on the next service change the spark plug wires and do you suggest the coil too. Are those expensive to do. I will have the spark plugs done every time.

At least now I will not give up if it becomes erratic again, I will keep trying and check to see if there are any codes I can report on.

 

[TicketBait]

"P" for power train and related system faults, which include the ECM, Cluster, TCM, WPM, and DPS faults (Pxxxx)

0000 isn't listed in my shop manual, at least it's not in the chart where I could find it.

This is just a guess but I think the 0000 is meaningless as an active fault code.

The only time the three finger salute works is with an active code which means that unless you see the orange screen prior to pressing the buttons after you started the bike up the last time.

good to know. thanks Rattigan-Roger I believe we should call the 3 finger salute the "Rattigan-Roger Salute "

 

[Lamonster]

So that means that the screen went Orange, & check engine light came on, and said some letters real fast like EBM fault and then the check engine light goes away, and it was all a false never happened (weird)

I'm not saying that didn't happen, all I'm saying is the code you posted means nothing. How's your battery? I added a voltage gauge to my RT and that let's me know where it's at when I first crank it and if it's charging and holding a charge. I can also see the voltage drop when I make a turn. Might be something to think about adding.

 

[TicketBait]

I'm not saying that didn't happen, all I'm saying is the code you posted means nothing.

oh, ok , I understand now

How's your battery? I added a voltage gauge to my RT and that let's me know where it's at when I first crank it and if it's charging and holding a charge. I can also see the voltage drop when I make a turn. Might be something to think about adding.

I have a voltage meter and it is displaying between 12.5 & 12.7 with just ignition turned on. When riding or with engine on then it is showing between 13.7 & 14.1

I had installed a battery tender plus that I have access to underneath the seat that I hooked up about two weeks ago to make sure it was fully charged.

Just a quick question rather than start a new thread, when I am down in my garage is it ok to have bike hooked up to battery tender and have bike turned on so I can listen to the xm radio tunes blast? I have only tried it once and all the LED lights are on except the headlights. Is that ok ? I heard LED's will last forever.

 

[Lamonster]

Sounds like your voltage is right where mine is.
I don't see a problem with leaving the key on with the charger but I can't say for sure. :dontknow:

 

[NancysToy]

Could be a possible CanBus issue. Those gremlins often leave no traces. Do you by any chance have HIDs installed?

 

[TicketBait]

Could be a possible CanBus issue. Those gremlins often leave no traces. Do you by any chance have HIDs installed?

No HIDs just the RTS + mud flap, fender tip, 3rd brake light and front and rear bright sides all LED's

 

[bruiser]

My 2010 RTS had similar problems. They never were completely resolved. My dealer has said they have a few others with those issues. I will say that you are in dire need of a new technician. He sounds like he is making excuses and guessing, instead of testing and talking to the BRP tech folks. My RTS was helped a lot by replacing the entire ignition (coil and plug wires, as well as the plugs), plus the ECM. It still killed plugs freuently, however. I hope your tech gets his head together, and decides to try harder to chase the problem, instead of giving you the run around. In his defense, intermittent problems are sometimes hard to find...but you have to look before you can find them.

:agreen the intermittant problems, especially electrical, speaking from experience, they can be a bear :gaah:. I'm not sure how accessable the plug wires are as I haven't undressed my RTS yet, but one way I use to test for bad plug wires is to mist them with a water filled spray bottle. If they are "leaking" you'll see it and hear it. Also, ohm them out, a normal reading for a 12 inch wire is 10,000 ohms. You can determine the reading for shorter wires accordingly. I would caution you on running the radio/electronics with the charger hooked up. This can cause extra current draw on the charger coil and may overheat it. It can also cause a spike and damage the electronics on the bike. Just mho.

 

[TicketBait]

:agreen the intermittant problems, especially electrical, speaking from experience, they can be a bear :gaah:. I'm not sure how accessable the plug wires are as I haven't undressed my RTS yet, but one way I use to test for bad plug wires is to mist them with a water filled spray bottle. If they are "leaking" you'll see it and hear it. Also, ohm them out, a normal reading for a 12 inch wire is 10,000 ohms. You can determine the reading for shorter wires accordingly. I would caution you on running the radio/electronics with the charger hooked up. This can cause extra current draw on the charger coil and may overheat it. It can also cause a spike and damage the electronics on the bike. Just mho.

Thanks bruiser, :yikes:I will bring a radio down to the garage instead.:thumbup:

 

[NancysToy]

No HIDs just the RTS + mud flap, fender tip, 3rd brake light and front and rear bright sides all LED's

Ask your tech if he reflashed the ECM as yet. If not, have him do so. It helped when Nancy's Spyder had this problem, it may help yours. If not, it eliminates one more possibility.

 

[TicketBait]

Ask your tech if he reflashed the ECM as yet. If not, have him do so. It helped when Nancy's Spyder had this problem, it may help yours. If not, it eliminates one more possibility.

Thanks very much Scotty, I will ask him, he has been doing all the work on my bike since the begining, and was the one to put all the cosmetic mods I got too. Heck I even got him a bottle of wine for Christmas! He has been very generous and honest on the labor rate with both myself and scottyB's RT

I am gonna ride over and discuss what has been mentioned here, and how important is that we correct or prevent it from happening again before my big trip.ray: