Elka Stage 1+'s commeth.

[SilverSurfer]

My RT-S SE5 went into the shop Monday, for work yesterday to include a 3K service, the SE5 clutch recall, application of whatever's applicable from tech service/warranty bulletins 2010-6, 7 and 8 ... and the piece de resistance' .... Elka Stage 1+ shock upgrade. I tossed around whether I should get the Evoluzione sway bar or the Elka's. A guru on here suggested the Elka's eclipsed the benefit of the sway bar. Very stoked to find out when I pick up the bike on Thursday.

-- Surfer

 

[Raptor]

My RT-S SE5 went into the shop Monday, for work yesterday to include a 3K service, the SE5 clutch recall, application of whatever's applicable from tech service/warranty bulletins 2010-6, 7 and 8 ... and the piece de resistance' .... Elka Stage 1+ shock upgrade. I tossed around whether I should get the Evoluzione sway bar or the Elka's. A guru on here suggested the Elka's eclipsed the benefit of the sway bar. Very stoked to find out when I pick up the bike on Thursday.

-- Surfer

Congrats man. If it were me and I already had the thing apart I would have installed both. The bar is only a couple hundred bucks and it makes a heck of a difference. I wanted to do shocks too but can't cough up that kind of money, at least not yet. So for now the bar will do. And do it does!

Again, congrats onthe upgrades. That's going to be sweet. :thumbup:

 

[SilverSurfer]

Elka Tips

Hey Lamont ... Thanks for checkin' in on this. I know you've got a set and undoubtedly have tweaked them to perfection. 'John,' my sales rep at Elka took my weight, etc. when I ordered the shocks ... He said the shocks would be built to my weight at the factory. I game him 200, as my weight, depending on intake of my favorite three food groups, fat, salt and cholesterol, ranges between 190 and 210. John said that they marked an indices on the adjusters to baseline the settings. Of course, this might need to be tweaked again before and after the BBQ.

Seriously though, any tips and advise you have would be appreciated!

Best,

-- Surfer

P.S. -- Thanks Raptor for your input as well.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Spring Length

Thanks, Lamont ... now I'm looking at the owner's manual. Of course, I'm going to ryde on these first to see how the bike generally perfoms and go from there. Assuming I get the bike back with the springs at 10", when you speak of spring compression to 9", is this achieved by use of the top (pre-load) adjuster or the bottom (rebound) adjuster? Half n' half?

Thanks,

-- Surfer.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Spring Compression

Thanks, Lamont ... I'll take a good look at the springs when I get the bike back tomorrow. Based on your pics, I think I see the threaded ring that compresses the spring as the one around the thicker (threaded) area of the shock. If it needs doing, I'll work with tech support to make sure I do it right. John mentioned your name when I purchased my shocks and Elka holds you in high regard. Your heads-up on this matter is appreciated.

I do as much as I can, but admit I'm a nacent mechanic. My 'garage' is the parking pad in front of my townhome and my storage facility. Someday I'll have my two-car, bike lift and all the goodies.

Paul

 

[Raptor]

His is an RT and I don't think anyone is raving about the swaybar on the RT.

Thanks Lamont. I didn't think about that. I guess the RT is quite a different animal than the RS, and it's application is different to a degree (i.e. long haul riding, comfort of ride, stability, etc) whereas the RS is more about speed, cornering and a somewhat higher performance profile.

In that circumstance I can see where shocks would have a much higher impact than the bar. What do you think EVO needs to do to make the bar more effective? Or is it just a non-issue because of the application?

Thanks for your time. I really enjoy the tech talk and learning new things! :thumbup: BTW, good pic showing the different shocks. I can see exactly what you mean about how to compress the spring and such...

 

[Dwight]

Thanks Lamont,
I certainly appreciate the tips on the Elka's. Even though I provided weights for my application I'm pretty sure they didn't supply the right spring. I have added about (not exactly sure) 8 turns of preload and it seems much better. I never thought to measure compressed length, I'll do that when I get home. My shocks have both compression and rebound dampening, I've added quite a bit of compression dampening to help control roll over, so far the ride is still good. Your comment on the Evo sway bar is right, very little difference, especially two up. I'll be really interested in the results of switching to the 300lb springs. By the way is there any way to tell which spring you have? My race car springs usually had a metal tag with the spring weight.

Thanks again
Dwight

 

[SilverSurfer]

Initial Impressions - Elka Stage 1+'s

Picked up the RT yesterday; Elkas installed beautifully (mine are red). Rode the bike 50 miles back to work; and then to home. The RT tracks ALOT better; which is not to say that I had a significant problem before the upgrade from the stock fronts. I'm not sure if it was crappy MD road ... at times there did seem to be a bit more side roll than I like ... not a lot, a bit. This could just also be me being super critical as I get used to the new feel.

This morning, I measured spring length. I was surprised to find that top-coil to-bottom-coil spring length was just under 8.5". I only weigh just under 200 lbs; so I'm thinking that the front upgrade and no upgrade on the back may cause the rear to be a bit 'floaty' in comparison, which might account for some of the sensation I'm getting. I've adjusted the rear up to max firmness and will be testing that on Saturday. I definitely want to upgrade the rear shock when Elka deploys the rear shock solution for the RT.


Paul

 

[SilverSurfer]

... And Here They Are:

Some photos of the installed shocks can be seen in my Elka mod album at http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/album.php?albumid=1016.

While the Elka's DEFINITELY provide a smoother, rail-like ride, I'm still trying to diagnose a little 'float;' or perhaps it's roll, I'm getting in normal buffeting and crosswinds. This is probably a tweak in pre-load, but just want to make sure.

I would think it important to know the max recommended spring compression. Lamont offered something about 8.5 inch spring lenth. Mine are that, and I think they might need to go to eight inches. Still, that's only 20% from the 10-inch uncompressed spring length. I'll consult the owner's manual carefully and perhaps call Elka tech/ service support to find out what "a bit much" actually means. Thought: Should there automatically be application of a 300 lb spring to RT's, vs. a 250 lb to RS's given the different dry weights (RT - 929lbs, vs. RS 699lbs)?

Trying to avoid a spring exchange, because it means more shop time and expense. It would kind of gripe me if Elka, given that they take one's pre-load weight info on order, would build the shocks set at a max tolerance from which you can't yield 10 more pounds of pre-load.

I'll keep everyone posted. :spyder:

 

[NancysToy]

While the Elka's DEFINITELY provide a smoother, rail-like ride, I'm still trying to diagnose a little 'float;' or perhaps it's roll, I'm getting in normal buffeting and crosswinds. This is probably a tweak in pre-load, but just want to make sure.

I would be surprised if you can get rid of the effects of wind completely. That would probably take a completely rigid suspension...or at least one so stiff it is useless otherwise. It would also take rock hard tires, or ones with very stiff sidewalls. The RT has a large profile, and will see wind influence no matter what. The difference between this and a Goldwing is that the motorcycle has the gyroscopic effect of the wheels, to resist changes in attitude and direction. The Spyder (or a small auto) responds quickly to such influence, with a resulting reaction in the form or body roll or steering change...or both.

 

[Tonga]

I have seen the pictures and just a few questions as I have a set of Elka's coming. I gave our weight, that's 2 up riding with some extra for gear plus I have been told that I am getting adjustable dampening. The pics show a reservoir but I can not see any dampening adjuster. Another thing, does Elka give all Hardware needed for install? I wonder what Stage 1 means? I was reluctant to order the Elkas because I was afraid of not getting what I needed. Guess what 'm saying is how much experience does Elka have with the Spyder RT/RTS BUT I did order them and am excited to get them on. Hoping to get them today. By the way, my Evo SwayBar does help but is more noticable 1 up then 2 up. I wish BRP would have given me more preload on my springs but I still think they want the Spyder's ride to be soft for the ESP to cut in. Guess Saftey first, Fun second.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Elka Stage 1/Stage 1 Plus Adjustments

First, to NancysToy ... Indeed, buffeting and wind is an ever-present factor. My only point was, despite the fact that the Elkas ride beautifully, I don't think they pre-loaded mine enough to actually mitigate the roll factor better than I had on my stocks. Therefore, my intent was to research the best way to tweak the pre-load and/or the rebound to mitigate the effect as best possible (which I'm sure will culminate in a flatter ride than my stocks).

Today I had a great conversation with Sebastian at Elka Suspensions. I described my observations (in context of the previous thread entries), which revealed the following information (Note -- I am only addressing Stage 1/Stage 1 Plus shocks here; not Stage twos and beyond):

First, going back to spring length. Sebastian said the 'factory' uncompressed spring length is 9.5 inches. Elka advises against compressing more than three inches below that; meaning not less than 6.5 inches. Mine came from the factory compressed to about 8.5 inches; therefore I've got two inches to play with. Good.

Second, to optimize pre-load firmness and mitigate roll on a single-stage Elka, the formula is two full turns downward on the pre-load (top) ring, and three clicks in (up) on the rebound setting (bottom of shock). For every two turns, three clicks, and so on. This formula would apply in reverse if one were trying to achieve a softer ride and more rebound.

Again, Sebastian did warn to not over do it on compressing the shocks and tightening rebound as it will (of course) result in a harsh ride. At any rate, I found this information extremely useful and I'm looking forward to setting it up on the bike.

To Tonga's question: (1) There is a dampening adjustment on the reservoir for the Stage 1 Plus's, but I would be very careful messing with it, if at all. It is set at the factory, and did not enter into the conversation I had with Sebastian (above). On the Stage ones, the reservoirs simply act as a holding area for heated shock fluid as it expands through aggressive twisties. Adjusting it would only affect the rate at which oil flows between the shock and the reservoir. On normal ryding, they shouldn't factor in much. On 1-Stage shocks, the only 'end-user' adjustments are the pre-load ring and the re-bound setting. (2) What does Stage 1 mean? "Stage 1" means it is a single-phase system, no crossover function, adjusted for both pre-load and rebound. Stage twos have a two-stage system separated by a crossover spacer to achieve a progressive ride between preload and rebound (somewhat splitting spring function between preload and rebound), in addition to the pre-load and rebound adjustments for ride firmness (page E15 of owners manual). (3) Elka Shocks come with all parts, adjustment tools and instructions for installation.

Good luck with your install and I hope this provided useful information.

Paul
(Surfer)

 

[NancysToy]

First, to NancysToy ... Indeed, buffeting and wind is an ever-present factor. My only point was, despite the fact that the Elkas ride beautifully, I don't think they pre-loaded mine enough to actually mitigate the roll factor better than I had on my stocks. Therefore, my intent was to research the best way to tweak the pre-load and/or the rebound to mitigate the effect as best possible (which I'm sure will culminate in a flatter ride than my stocks).

I like the way you are going about this, thoroughly and methodically. I look forward to further reports. Have you had any thoughts about the effects of the adjustable compression on Stage 3 Elkas? I'm wondering if that wouldn't allow you to adjust to limit some of the sudden roll inflicted by the wind, yet still allow a soft enough spring rate and rebound to be comfortable (and keep the wheels on the ground). I'd love to see an in-depth test of the three types of Elkas, at different settings, on an RT.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Have you had any thoughts about the effects of the adjustable compression on Stage 3 Elkas? I'm wondering if that wouldn't allow you to adjust to limit some of the sudden roll inflicted by the wind, yet still allow a soft enough spring rate and rebound to be comfortable (and keep the wheels on the ground). I'd love to see an in-depth test of the three types of Elkas, at different settings, on an RT.

Thanks, NancysToy ... I'll certainly update this thread as I apply the tweaks. Certainly, I'm sure the more stages offered in the shock, the more flexibility one has in its adjustments. However, I think most would agree that given what we want the shocks to do, along with what they cost, we reach a point of diminishing return. A pair of stocks cost about $250.00 new. A pair of Stage 1s are $695. Beyond that we quickly approach and surpass $1k. Unless a spyderryder is planning on a lot of track work, continuous aggressive ryding on twisties, or happens like shining his/her light on mankind by just spending money, going with Stage 2s and 3s is probably overkill. All we are trying to do is surpass a 'fair' set of stocks with a high-performance set of Elkas which far exceed the stocks at any stage level. :f_spider:

 

[Tonga]

The uncompressed spring is 10". The springs you will be getting will most likely be a 250lb spring. I found that you need to compress the spring to 8.75 to 8.5 inches for them to work right. That's a little bit much I think and the guys at Elka agreed and sent me out some 300lb springs to test to see if that will help soften up the preload. I should have those on this week if I find time and it quits raining.

I'm sure the 250's will work just fine for you but take a measurement of the spring to see where it works for you. I would start at 9" and go from there.

I've got my Elkas and will try to get them on tomorrow. I can get the trunk off my GS but never have yet on my RT. Any pics on taking the front trunk off or do you think I can get the new Elkas on without the trunk off??? Side panel removal is in the manual but the trunk ios not. Can you give me a hand here?? Thanks

 

[Tonga]

I didn't remove the trunk when I put on the Elka's on the RT. The last set of springs I changed I was able to change them by just removing the lower bolt and jacking the Spyder up. It's a real easy swap. :doorag:

Thanks for the info. I took a quick look at it and can get my hands in there but wasn't sure. I am wondering about mounting the reservour and do I need to take the plastic cover off the top A arm? Looks like I might be able to feed the clamp under the plastic cover? Any hints would be appreciated, Thanks

 

[Tonga]

Thanks for the info. I took a quick look at it and can get my hands in there but wasn't sure. I am wondering about mounting the reservour and do I need to take the plastic cover off the top A arm? Looks like I might be able to feed the clamp under the plastic cover? Any hints would be appreciated, Thanks

Another thing, the shocks go in opposite to the OEM with spring at the bottom exposing the shock to dirt and debri. Hope it doesn't hurt the seals as there is no protective boot.

 

[Tonga]

First, to NancysToy ... Indeed, buffeting and wind is an ever-present factor. My only point was, despite the fact that the Elkas ride beautifully, I don't think they pre-loaded mine enough to actually mitigate the roll factor better than I had on my stocks. Therefore, my intent was to research the best way to tweak the pre-load and/or the rebound to mitigate the effect as best possible (which I'm sure will culminate in a flatter ride than my stocks).

Today I had a great conversation with Sebastian at Elka Suspensions. I described my observations (in context of the previous thread entries), which revealed the following information (Note -- I am only addressing Stage 1/Stage 1 Plus shocks here; not Stage twos and beyond):

First, going back to spring length. The actual 'factory' uncompressed spring length is 9.5 inches. Elka advises against compressing more than three inches below that; meaning not less than 6.5 inches. Mine came from the factory compressed to about 8.5 inches; therefore I've got two inches to play with. Good.

Second, to optimize pre-load firmness and mitigate roll on a single-stage Elka, the formula is two full turns downward on the pre-load (top) ring, and three clicks in (up) on the rebound setting (bottom of shock). For every two turns, three clicks, and so on. This formula would apply in reverse if one were trying to achieve a softer ride and more rebound.

Again, Sebastian did warn to not over do it on compressing the shocks and tightening rebound as it will (of course) result in a harsh ride. At any rate, I found this information extremely useful and I'm looking forward to setting it up on the bike.

To Tonga's question: (1) There is a dampening adjustment on the reservoir for the Stage 1 Plus's, but I would be very careful messing with it, if at all. It is set at the factory, and did not enter into the conversation I had with Sebastian (above). On the Stage ones, the reservoirs simply act as a holding area for heated shock fluid as it expands through aggressive twisties. Adjusting it would only affect the rate at which oil flows between the shock and the reservoir. On normal ryding, they shouldn't factor in much. On 1-Stage shocks, the only 'end-user' adjustments are the pre-load ring and the re-bound setting. (2) What does Stage 1 mean? "Stage 1" means it is a single-phase system, no crossover function, adjusted for both pre-load and rebound. Stage twos have a two-stage system separated by a crossover spacer to achieve a progressive ride between preload and rebound (somewhat splitting spring function between preload and rebound), in addition to the pre-load and rebound adjustments for ride firmness (page E15 of owners manual). (3) Elka Shocks come with all parts, adjustment tools and instructions for installation.

Good luck with your install and I hope this provided useful information.

Paul
(Surfer)

Thanks Paul for the info. I thought the reservour adjustment affected either rebound or compression and the same with the adustment knob on the head of the shock, hence two way adjustment. What you are saying is that the one knob does Both ??

 

[SilverSurfer]

Lessee ... good interaction here:

First, I won't contest Lamont's most excellent tape measure regarding spring length. I am only relaying information provided me by a vendor rep, Sebastian, at Elka. Maybe they mean 'uncompressed on the bike,' who knows. The spring rates (weights) appear to increment by 25 pounds. I have 250s; the next are 275s; Lamont has 300s. The good news I learned is that I've got ample play room remaining to tweak my shocks; plus, I learned a basic rule of thumb for adjusting preload and rebound in unison.

For Tonga:

I thought the reservour adjustment affected either rebound or compression and the same with the adustment knob on the head of the shock, hence two way adjustment. What you are saying is that the one knob does Both ??

Again, I am only addressing Stage 1's and 1 Plus's. No, I am not saying that one knob does both. There is no reservoir adjustment on Stage 1 Plus remotes (see below). Generally, one looks at tweaking three ways, but it requires an understanding of what each adjustment does. The instructions, especially the gray box notes at the bottom of pages in the instruction manual, pp. E10-16 are quite informative. The Stage 1/Stage 1 Plus setting points are:

(1) Preload compression (large adjuster, top of spring): More pre-load (clockwise) increases height of vehicle; more responsive ride, but read precautions in manual to not overdo it.

(2) Rebound compression (small adjuster, lower shock mount).

(3) Compression "damping." This is the adjuster you're referring to on the remote reservoir, but I checked my Stage 1 Plus remotes and there is no such adjustment. Checking further, it doesn't apply to Stage 1's or 2's. The adjustment you are speaking of only appears on Stage 3's. The Stage 1 Plus and S2 reservoirs are simply dampening reservoirs to provide improved dampening over long or aggressive riding.

I have a follow up question on rebound settings that I'll get the answer to tomorrow (Tuesday).

Best,

Surfer

 

[Tonga]

Lessee ... good interaction here:

First, I won't contest Lamont's most excellent tape measure regarding spring length. I am only relaying information provided me by a vendor rep, Sebastian, at Elka. Maybe they mean 'uncompressed on the bike,' who knows. The spring rates (weights) appear to increment by 25 pounds. I have 250s; the next are 275s; Lamont has 300s. The good news I learned is that I've got ample play room remaining to tweak my shocks; plus, I learned a basic rule of thumb for adjusting preload and rebound in unison.

For Tonga:



Again, I am only addressing Stage 1's and 1 Plus's. No, I am not saying that one knob does both. There is no reservoir adjustment on Stage 1 Plus remotes (see below). Generally, one looks at tweaking three ways, but it requires an understanding of what each adjustment does. The instructions, especially the gray box notes at the bottom of pages in the instruction manual, pp. E10-16 are quite informative. The Stage 1/Stage 1 Plus setting points are:

(1) Preload compression (large adjuster, top of spring): More pre-load (clockwise) increases height of vehicle; more responsive ride, but read precautions in manual to not overdo it.

(2) Rebound compression (small adjuster, lower shock mount).

(3) Compression "damping." This is the adjuster you're referring to on the remote reservoir, but I checked my Stage 1 Plus remotes and there is no such adjustment. Checking further, it doesn't apply to Stage 1's or 2's. The adjustment you are speaking of only appears on Stage 3's. The Stage 1 Plus and S2 reservoirs are simply dampening reservoirs to provide improved dampening over long or aggressive riding.

I have a follow up question on rebound settings that I'll get the answer to tomorrow (Tuesday).

Best,

Surfer

I'm awake, well sort of. Maybe another coffee. Anyway back to business. My shocks do have a knob on the reservoir that adjusts compression. The manual says that you can fine tune the shocks but to much will make a harsh ride. The kbob on the shock at the top of the spring is rebound. My springs are black and the starting length is 9 inches now. I will measure my bikes (RT) height before I start adjusting. Sounds like that is important to the manufacter's specs. I will still need some more adjustment then my hardest OEM setting so will probably raise the bike somewhat. I am not sure were the reservoir hose goes, along the side of the shock through the A arm opening or over top of it. One pic shows it going through the A-arm. I am a bit upset about the shock shaft out to the elements and now have read that under general maintenance they (Elka) suggest using shock absorber covers. Thanks for the "to late" info. Sounds like that means I will have to remove the shocks to put a cover on, not to mention that at the price I paid, they should be a standard item. No pics on the covers and I think they are a MUST as the shock is going to get lots of debri on the shafts.