SPYDER RTS STEERING PROBLEM - WARNING!

[IdleUp]

Ok I’m pretty upset with BRP tonight – here’s the story . . .
I’ve been a Spyder owner since they came out – as a matter of fact, I got one of the bikes slated for the dealer and was driving one of the first “yellow Spyder’s in Virginia. Anyhow – I’ve been watching the RTS for some time now and decided to sell my trusty Goldwing CSC trike and add the Spyder RTS to my fleet for some serious cruising. I ordered the bike last week and this morning I went to pick her up and bring her home.
Everything was hunky dory (how ever you spell it) until I took my first ride. In just seconds, I could feel a serious problem with the steering to the point it actually felt the bike was almost out of control. After analyzing the problem it was quickly determined that the power steering module for the RTS had some serious problems. While most power steering modules reduce steering ability the faster you go to reduce over-steer, the re-designed module on the RTS model continues to be over sensitive regardless of speed. Any slight movement of the handlebars, dip in the road, gust of wind, or any movement of the rider or passenger causes the bike to swerve to either the right or left.

After a few trips back to the dealer trying different air pressures and increasing the shock settings, it was perfectly clear that Spyder RTS is not road worthy, and in fact unsafe. On one of my many test rides, Rt 460 where the speed limit is 65, it was almost impossible to hold the bike in a lane without constant corrections. On one occasion, as a semi passed me, I locked my arms to prevent the bars from moving and the turbulence caused the bike to almost uncontrollably swerve back and forth and at times right in the other lane.

As another test, I drove a new standard RT model, and it handled just as good as my old Spyder. Anyhow, after reading post all over the Internet, it’s clear I’m not the only one with this problem . My quick research shows that the standard RT model uses the old type steering module while the RTS with it’s new front end and uses a new steering module hence the problem.

The long and short of it - BRP should be ashamed of themselves for releasing the bike in this condition. You can’t tell me that no one knew of this problem because a company with so much technology has to know what there is a problem. While I’m concerned with my bike getting fixed, I’m more concerned with someone getting injured or worse killed as a result of this problem. As of now, my new bike sits at the dealer and no one really knows anything, not even the factory on how to fix the damn thing.

My old Goldwing starting to look real good to me again . . .

 

[dadof4]

My quick research shows that the standard RT model uses the old type steering module while the RTS with it’s new front end and wider track uses a new steering module hence the problem.
. . .

I'm confused. Don't the standard RT and the RT-S share the same footprint? There has to be an issue with your RT-S. I don't think the problem you are seeing is common to all the RT-S's. Mine is fine. I feel comfortable and stable at 65mph. Perhaps you can find another RT-S to test drive and compare the handling. Hope you get the problem resolved.

 

[NancysToy]

Mine did exactly the same thing. It was scary! They adjusted the sensors, aligned it by the book, then did the mandatory reset on the sensors after alignment. I set up the front preload, raised the front tire pressure from the 15 it was delivered with, and keep the rear suspension at the lowest setting compatible with the load. It is now just fine. A little more sensitive than the RS, but perfectly stable. There is more wind influence, due to the larger front end and windshield, but that was expected. It is no longer evil! Handles every bit as good as the demos I rode. I believe your problem can be solved, but it will take care and persistence on the part of your technician. Contact BRP Spyder Customer Support if needed.

 

[timpani]

Hello, My RT-S has been great. The only thing I have noticed is that there is little bit too much body roll when cornering. I just have to be gentle and not over steer. Not enouth to really worry about. Someday I might get a new sway bar and see if that helps. I also have a premeir edition GS and find both to be very stable and enjoyable rides. As far as IdleUp refering to RT v.s. RT-S, I think he was meaning RS v.s. RT. Have the dealer take a look at your machine. Hopefully they can get it fixed. Good luck!

 

[IdleUp]

From what I understand the RT uses pretty much the same front end as the older model Spyders however the RTS has a new designed front end with a wider track and a new DPS assembly. I didn't crawl under the machine but the tech said it had a different front end then the RT model because of the air suspension?

As I mentioned, the RT seemed fine and a lot like my old Spyder.

 

[IWN2RYD]

Very sorry to read of your concerns. By all means please do not take my response as criticism but more curiosity and a little embarrassing story on my part...

I experienced this as well in my own way. It got very scary more than a few times. Even one time I had to get off the road is scared me so bad...

In all honesty, unless you have a mechanical or electronic issue, it is simply you needing to relax your grip and turn off your "Muscle" memory.

Here is what I like to give examples of this as.... I learned to drive on my parents property. It was a Ford 9N tractor. I learned @ five and it became my job and responsibility @ seven.

Now fast forward a few years... My dad had an old pickup for the property. I used it to haul firewood, supplies and such on the property.

Then my day finally came and I got to get my drivers permit. I took my dad 77 Chevy pickup down a row of orange trees, and proceeded to loos control.

Guess why!! Power steering!:yikes: I over corrected to amny times and my dad pulled me out of the truck...

Now I went down this silly story for an easy reason. These RT's do not respond like any other motorcycle I have ever ryden. And frankly take a little bit to get used to.

Just like going from old school no power steering to power steering.

Once I relaxed, and learned how much input our RT-S needed, we have been very please with our ryde, and enjoy the fact that hardly any input from the driver is needed to stay straight and safe :2thumbs:nojoke

This is certainly not to say your not having a true issue, I am just expressing I too was in this position, and learned it was me needing to adjust. Not the bike pps:

 

[chris56]

drive now 4500mls with my RT (not RTS) - seems that specially the "old" GS-drivers have a problem with the steering - made it as hard as possible on the front - but still the front shocks do not "match" with the rear shock
think they should use much stronger springs on the front..
drove a while now with a broken rear shock (better?) -
but no problem also if i do more than 100mls/hour on the carways here - it runs absolut straight - think you have another problem they should check ...

 

[Lamonster]

There is no difference in the front end of RT and the RT-S. I'm not sure who told you that but they were mistaken.

 

[ThreeWheels]

I hate to sound like a broken record (I've posted this before), but the steering problems you have sound remarkably like my first experiences. The bike was unstable and felt almost like it had a mind of it's own, wandering over the road at highway speeds. The faster I went the more unstable it felt.
The problem was caused by excessive toe-out of the front wheels and was solved by a re-alignment.
Since then I've put 7K on the bike, including the Dragon and I've been very happy.

Here's a link to the whole story:

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=210441&postcount=1

Incidentally, both front tires still look like new. No cupping or unusual wear pattern at all.

 

[IdleUp]

Please - Don't insult me- I've been on a bike all my life and as I mentioned I've owned a Spyder sine they came out. I know how to ride a Spyder and exactly how they steer.
It has nothing to do with the way you hold the bars - the bike is power steering system is DEFECTIVE and going to kill someone - let's not skirt around the problem.

Thanks

Very sorry to read of your concerns. By all means please do not take my response as criticism but more curiosity and a little embarrassing story on my part...

I experienced this as well in my own way. It got very scary more than a few times. Even one time I had to get off the road is scared me so bad...

In all honesty, unless you have a mechanical or electronic issue, it is simply you needing to relax your grip and turn off your "Muscle" memory.

Here is what I like to give examples of this as.... I learned to drive on my parents property. It was a Ford 9N tractor. I learned @ five and it became my job and responsibility @ seven.

Now fast forward a few years... My dad had an old pickup for the property. I used it to haul firewood, supplies and such on the property.

Then my day finally came and I got to get my drivers permit. I took my dad 77 Chevy pickup down a row of orange trees, and proceeded to loos control.

Guess why!! Power steering!:yikes: I over corrected to amny times and my dad pulled me out of the truck...

Now I went down this silly story for an easy reason. These RT's do not respond like any other motorcycle I have ever ryden. And frankly take a little bit to get used to.

Just like going from old school no power steering to power steering.

Once I relaxed, and learned how much input our RT-S needed, we have been very please with our ryde, and enjoy the fact that hardly any input from the driver is needed to stay straight and safe :2thumbs:nojoke

This is certainly not to say your not having a true issue, I am just expressing I too was in this position, and learned it was me needing to adjust. Not the bike pps:

 

[IdleUp]

There is no difference in the front end of RT and the RT-S. I'm not sure who told you that but they were mistaken.

Well, as I said I didn't look at it on a rack I'm going by what the tech at Virgil Neff Kawasaki told me. He also said the steering module was different. Maybe he was making reference to the standard Spyder's.

Well, what does not make sense is; there was two other RT's there and they both drove fine.

 

[NancysToy]

Well, as I said I didn't look at it on a rack I'm going by what the tech at Virgil Neff Kawasaki told me. He also said the steering module was different. Maybe he was making reference to the standard Spyder's.

Well, what does not make sense is; there was two other RT's there and they both drove fine.

Yes, the RT/RTS DPS unit is a different part number than the RS. That may be merely due to a different method of handlebar/steering shaft attachment. The RT has vastly different top end geometry. I would not count out the ratio or programming being different, but much of the "easier steering" comes from the raised rear suspension, which reduces the caster and makes the RT steer quicker if the rear suspension is raised.

The fact that the other RTs rode fine should point out to you that the problem you experienced is a problem with your particular Spyder...and not a defect in steering design. As I said before, I had exactly the same experience...and it was resolved by a good technician working closely with BRP. I think yours can be cured, too. The RT will always feel a little different, wallow more in turns, and be a bit more sensitive than the RS, but it is not inherently evil...or defective.

 

[IdleUp]

Scotty, many thanks for the reply - I'm hoping that's the case, but I read a few other posts around the Internet and it seems the over sensitive steering is more so on the RTS model.

So we can narrow the terminology down, my Spyder brochure shows the standard touring bike as the RT model and it shows the decked out touring bike with the air suspension etc. as the RTS did this change ?

You do have the model with the air suspension right? Also, did you own a Spyder prior to this model? The point is - it's helpful to have owned a Sypder that did steer right to make an evaluation on the steering.

Thanks

Mike

Yes, the RT/RTS DPS unit is a different part number than the RS. That may be merely due to a different method of handlebar/steering shaft attachment. The RT has vastly different top end geometry. I would not count out the ratio or programming being different, but much of the "easier steering" comes from the raised rear suspension, which reduces the caster and makes the RT steer quicker if the rear suspension is raised.

The fact that the other RTs rode fine should point out to you that the problem you experienced is a problem with your particular Spyder...and not a defect in steering design. As I said before, I had exactly the same experience...and it was resolved by a good technician working closely with BRP. I think yours can be cured, too. The RT will always feel a little different, wallow more in turns, and be a bit more sensitive than the RS, but it is not inherently evil...or defective.

 

[IdleUp]

Just curious if you owned a Spyder before getting the tour model - what I'm trying to say is; unless you've owned the older bike which in my opinion tracked down the highway fine and had no drift or wobble - it's going to be hard for a new rider to understand what I'm saying.

Bottom line, if it dose not steer at least as good as my other Spyder, I have no use for it. Let's not lose account what the bike is intended for "touring" this means long rides for long distances, I'd slit my wrists before I would put my better half on this bike and attempt a 100 mile ride - that's how bad it was.

Thanks!

I hate to sound like a broken record (I've posted this before), but the steering problems you have sound remarkably like my first experiences. The bike was unstable and felt almost like it had a mind of it's own, wandering over the road at highway speeds. The faster I went the more unstable it felt.
The problem was caused by excessive toe-out of the front wheels and was solved by a re-alignment.
Since then I've put 7K on the bike, including the Dragon and I've been very happy.

Here's a link to the whole story:

http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=210441&postcount=1

Incidentally, both front tires still look like new. No cupping or unusual wear pattern at all.

 

[widowmaker2011]

Scotty, many thanks for the reply - I'm hoping that's the case, but I read a few other posts around the Internet and it seems the over sensitive steering is more so on the RTS model.

So we can narrow the terminology down, my Spyder brochure shows the standard touring bike as the RT model and it shows the decked out touring bike with the air suspension etc. as the RTS did this change ?

You do have the model with the air suspension right? Also, did you own a Spyder prior to this model? The point is - it's helpful to have owned a Sypder that did steer right to make an evaluation on the steering.
Thanks

Mike

Mike, Not to knock your dealer but quite frankly , if the tech at your dealer thinks there is a difference between the dps units and steering on a RT and RTS, your problems start there. I too was a original spyder adoptee, getting 2 of the first spiders in ny state. We now own 2 RTS's. To answer your question , the RT and the RTS have the same steering dps unit and same alignment specs . They both have air suspension, except the RTS uses an on board air compressor, where the base RT has a manual fill schrader valve under the seat. Follow Scotty's advise here. I have also ridden a RT that handled as you describe. Have the alignment and DPS calibrated and your problems will be gone. I also advise getting Carlos involved as he will help push the technical fix to the dealer. It is ever apparent that there is a vast difference in technical expertise amongst dealers, yours sounds like they just need some guidance to get your steering right.

 

[IdleUp]

Thanks for the reply - the tech must have been talking about the older models having the different system.

Well all the posts so far have made me better about the problem - if you guys are saying the RT has the same suspension and steering module as the RTS, then the problem must be unique to my bike and of course repairable.

Mike, Not to knock your dealer but quite frankly , if the tech at your dealer thinks there is a difference between the dps units and steering on a RT and RTS, your problems start there. I too was a original spyder adoptee, getting 2 of the first spiders in ny state. We now own 2 RTS's. To answer your question , the RT and the RTS have the same steering dps unit and same alignment specs . They both have air suspension, except the RTS uses an on board air compressor, where the base RT has a manual fill schrader valve under the seat. Follow Scotty's advise here. I have also ridden a RT that handled as you describe. Have the alignment and DPS calibrated and your problems will be gone. I also advise getting Carlos involved as he will help push the technical fix to the dealer. It is ever apparent that there is a vast difference in technical expertise amongst dealers, yours sounds like they just need some guidance to get your steering right.

 

[NancysToy]

Scotty, many thanks for the reply - I'm hoping that's the case, but I read a few other posts around the Internet and it seems the over sensitive steering is more so on the RTS model.

So we can narrow the terminology down, my Spyder brochure shows the standard touring bike as the RT model and it shows the decked out touring bike with the air suspension etc. as the RTS did this change ?

You do have the model with the air suspension right? Also, did you own a Spyder prior to this model? The point is - it's helpful to have owned a Sypder that did steer right to make an evaluation on the steering.

Thanks

Mike

The steering on the RT and RTS are the same. The only majoir difference is that the RTS version was the first produced, and the earlier ones did not have the benefit of what BRP has since learned about quality control and some other fine points. BTW, your dealer should have found the handling problem during the test ride that BRP is now requiring.

As to the difference between the versions. The RTS has electrically adjustable rear suspension, with an on-board compressor. The other versions also have air suspension in th rear, but it must be manually adjusted via a Schrader valve beneath the seat. Otherwise, they are identical mechanically. It is just the options and trim that vary.

Nancy has owned a Premier Edition GS Spyder since March 2008. I have ridden that a lot, prior to getting my RTS...and some since. I agree that the RT is more sensitive, has more wind influence, and responds differently due to the softer suspension and taller stance, etc. Once properly prepared, it does the job fine. I can ride on the Interstate now in truck traffic, with one hand. Prior to repairs I could barely keep it on the road. There is no reason yours cannot handle as good as the demos. Insist on it! That's what I did.

 

[IdleUp]

Thanks Scotty!

 

[Gary Le Brocq]

RT Steering

My brand new 2010 Spyder RT se5 lasted three weeks. First the D.P.S. went, quickly followed by a fault with the clutch.
My dealer attempted, to obtain parts and was told they are on back order.
Spyder off road.
This is my first Spyder. Very disappoited with the reliability, so far. B.R.P. seriously need to address the problems.
The good news, is that all going well the Spyder should be back on the road, sometime in August.

 

[IWN2RYD]

Please - Don't insult me- I've been on a bike all my life and as I mentioned I've owned a Spyder sine they came out. I know how to ride a Spyder and exactly how they steer.
It has nothing to do with the way you hold the bars - the bike is power steering system is DEFECTIVE and going to kill someone - let's not skirt around the problem.

Thanks

Do not insult me... I have been on two wheels now for 30+ years... So I guess I have no idea what it is like. Just because I did not give you the answer your looking for ... oh well... It is NOT defective on all RT's... That is the fact jack.

As others have said... Including myself but you clearly ignored it... You very well could have an issue. But many of us experienced very similar feelings at first.

Go ahead and treat me like you are. Seems to be your way. Good luck and I hope you find a safe solution.