Conventional vs Reverse Trike Discussion

[crna59]

What, front brake lever, the Spyder does not have one!!!

This is for a trike and side-car. I explained how to do it on a Spyder earlier in post #55.

 

[jjc54]

Mine will drift if I pull away from a side road and crank it hard while I give it some throttle. When the back comes back in line with the front it hooks back up and I am off. Don't know what it looks like, but it's a lot of fun and you get a lot of stares.

 

[Peter Aawen]

1

You also have to "trick" the nanny system so it doesn't interfere with your playtime! I usually have to tell my students to "hang your butt off the seat" like the MotoGP racers do. If you put enough weight to the inside, the nanny system won't intervene. Sometimes you need to position your right foot and touch the brake pedal.
It's a lot easier on a trike... just ride the front brake.

2

Pray tell how does one do that??

3

You have to get the rear wheels spinning and using the front brake, just enough to allow you to correctly steer the rig. I just put on finger on the lever and modulate the brake/throttle so I have control. That way, you can do it for days... Here's what the WA State DOL Manual says:

Drifting
As discussed earlier, centrifugal force pulls a three-wheeler toward the outside of corners and may cause an inside wheel to lift. To reduce this side force and help keep all wheels on the ground, you can use a technique called “drifting”. Drifting is a technique that uses steering, braking, and throttle to slightly slide the rear tire(s) toward the outside of the corner. This subtle drift can help disperse side loads and increase stability as you maintain directional control. The best way to learn and practice this important technique is to take a three-wheel training course.

4

But since there is no individual control of a Spyder's front brake...?

5

What front brake lever, the Spyder does not have one!!!

Now come on guys, it's clear that the first para of the quote I've numbered 1 above refers to a Spyder, even if it might not be quite so clear that the second para of the same quote, the one I've bolded and enlarged in that quote, refers to a conventional trike (ie, it should read: "It's a lot easier on a conventional trike... just ride the front brake.") simply because that's the only sorta trike in this 'Conventional vs Reverse Trike discussion' thread that generally even HAS a front brake - but we do all know that, don't we??

So given that understanding:

• the answer to quote number 2 is easy - you just squeeze the lever with a finger or two on your left hand;
• the description in quote 3 is a pretty good explanation of how I drift a Conventional trike too;
• quote number 4 is stating the obvious about Spyders, but simply doesn't apply at all to Conventional trikes, the 'other' type of trike which was the subject of that 2nd para in quote 1 and the description in quote 3; and
• the same applies to quote number 5.

And now that's all so neatly cleared up (clear as mud, right?? ) I have a drift related discussion question that I think might really only apply to Spyders, as I haven't yet found a Conventional trike with quite the same degree of Nanny intervention capability.

I've noticed that on my Spyder (a 2013 RT that has an 'enhanced ECU Update) the 'angle of steering' up to which you can apply steering input and still hold your drift is fairly sharply delineated - riding solo on my 2013 RT, I reckon it's about 12 degrees turned into the the drift; but with a pillion aboard it's only about 9 degrees (clearly reduced due as part of the 'refinement' to the Nanny's parameters once that 'Pillion button' under the seat detects enough weight.) Any more steering angle input, the Nanny gets upset pdq, and starts calming things down!!

Now I will admit that there is a chance that my ECU Update may have adjusted those angles a little from the standard settings, or maybe the extra 'go' from the improved power output has reduced them a bit, but I haven't really ever looked into that &/or asked Jase (who did the Update), so I'm ignoring that possibility for now and just wondering if anyone else with an RT (please nominate if yours is V-Twin or 1330 powered) has noticed this too, and if their allowed 'angles of steering' are anything much different? I can also add that I have noticed the angles seem to be somewhat greater on those F3's with Sport Mode once it's selected, but I don't think they felt too much different otherwise?! Anyone else noticed/got any more input on any of this??

 

[BajaRon]

Maybe it's just me. But somehow I feel that if you have to ask how to drift, you probably shouldn't try it. It should come very natually. It's a seat of the pants process, smooth and fluid.

It helps to have a manual clutch. You don't need to use the brakes (though it might help if you have an SE).

I prefer my 2015 F3S SM6 (the finest Spyder BRP ever built). Followed closely by any of the GS/RS variations in the manual version.

I tried to find a good video of drifting a Spyder, but alas, all I could find were burnouts. Not a fan...

Maybe I'll make a video someday and fill the void!

 

[mecsw500]

You have to get the rear wheels spinning and using the front brake, just enough to allow you to correctly steer the rig. I just put on finger on the lever and modulate the brake/throttle so I have control. That way, you can do it for days... Here's what the WA State DOL Manual says:

Drifting
As discussed earlier, centrifugal force pulls a three-wheeler toward the outside of corners and may cause an inside wheel to lift. To reduce this side force and help keep all wheels on the ground, you can use a technique called “drifting”. Drifting is a technique that uses steering, braking, and throttle to slightly slide the rear tire(s) toward the outside of the corner. This subtle drift can help disperse side loads and increase stability as you maintain directional control. The best way to learn and practice this important technique is to take a three-wheel training course.

Does the WA State DOL require you to demonstrate this skill?

Does a three wheel training course go into such techniques? I would have thought riding on public highways with a modern vehicle and all its electronic rider aids you would not realistically be able to repeat this maneuver.

I’d have fun trying to do this on my Spyder, but I seriously doubt it will allow me to do this.

 

[lvmyspyder]

It's been a while since the ride and since my three wheel course, however, I ride with four other gents (at times) the gent who normally leads us out rides an Indian. It's a beautiful bike and he is a very good rider. We were going through some twisties in Eastern Oregon in the John Day area. It was hot. He started really attacking them, so I stayed with him. It was fun. He was laying that Indian over so that at times his pipes hit and the sparks would fly. I had Formoza's on the front and still had the Kenda (sorry) on the back. The corners we went into were slightly banked, which worked to my advantage. As I would go into the corner, I would take my keester completely off the seat. For exampl,e if it were a right handed turn, I would shift my weight totally to the right, butt off the seat, and lean into it, while at the same time hitting the throttle till the back end would start coming loose. The Kenda always broke loose first and then as that would happen, the fronts would start to follow. I would increase the throttle around the corner as the tires broke loose and adjust it to keep the drift going, then continue to accelerate out of the corner, turning into the drift, and then shifting my weight back to center as the bike and road straightened out. Exactly the same way as we were taught in the 3 wheel class. I am not sure if you can drift the Spyder without that major weight shift, i.e. coming off the seat. Not only was it fun... but I always felt like the Spyder was still planted, it never felt reckless or out of control.

When Harper slowed down and we stopped for the other three gents we'd ditched, he admitted he was trying to lose me (just having fun) but he said that every time he checked his side mirrors, "there you were!" Then he asked me, "Were you drifting that thing?" I said I was, and he said he could see it. He thought that was pretty cool.

I can't keep up with him in a straight line. He runs off from me. My 1330 is no match for what he has (can't remember that twin put out) but what I can say is that I was using my brake going through those twisties, but not to drift - to keep from running into the back of him as I accelerated out of the corner! The Spyder can drift in a very controlled manner, which is not only fun, but it still feels very safe. It's very capable machine.

Not to write a book here, but after our 3-wheel course, there quite a few Spyder converts. One gent rode a very nice BMW K1600. He came all decked out in some serious riding gear. At the end of the class, he said he was keeping his BMW, but he was going to get "one of those Spyders!" At the beginning of class, our instructor said to ride those Spyders like you stole them and this guy did. They could take it...

 

[mecsw500]

I think my arthritic sorry old bod has gotten well past the hanging off stage, two wheels or three. The only way I'm getting my knee down any more is by chucking it up the road.

Other than that, my Spyder absolutely refuses to spin up the rear, even one up, probably because of my lardy old self being way too heavy.

I don't think I hang about, but as I get older I definitely get a bit slower and I am much more risk adverse. I know it's going to hurt more if I bin it at my age. I'm now suffering the consequences of when I was young and stupid. Well, I'm still stupid, but that's from mental decline not an adrenaline rush.

 

[Snoking1127]

It's been a while since the ride and since my three wheel course, however, I ride with four other gents (at times) the gent who normally leads us out rides an Indian. It's a beautiful bike and he is a very good rider. We were going through some twisties in Eastern Oregon in the John Day area. It was hot. He started really attacking them, so I stayed with him. It was fun. He was laying that Indian over so that at times his pipes hit and the sparks would fly. I had Formoza's on the front and still had the Kenda (sorry) on the back. The corners we went into were slightly banked, which worked to my advantage. As I would go into the corner, I would take my keester completely off the seat. For exampl,e if it were a right handed turn, I would shift my weight totally to the right, butt off the seat, and lean into it, while at the same time hitting the throttle till the back end would start coming loose. The Kenda always broke loose first and then as that would happen, the fronts would start to follow. I would increase the throttle around the corner as the tires broke loose and adjust it to keep the drift going, then continue to accelerate out of the corner, turning into the drift, and then shifting my weight back to center as the bike and road straightened out. Exactly the same way as we were taught in the 3 wheel class. I am not sure if you can drift the Spyder without that major weight shift, i.e. coming off the seat. Not only was it fun... but I always felt like the Spyder was still planted, it never felt reckless or out of control.

When Harper slowed down and we stopped for the other three gents we'd ditched, he admitted he was trying to lose me (just having fun) but he said that every time he checked his side mirrors, "there you were!" Then he asked me, "Were you drifting that thing?" I said I was, and he said he could see it. He thought that was pretty cool.

I can't keep up with him in a straight line. He runs off from me. My 1330 is no match for what he has (can't remember that twin put out) but what I can say is that I was using my brake going through those twisties, but not to drift - to keep from running into the back of him as I accelerated out of the corner! The Spyder can drift in a very controlled manner, which is not only fun, but it still feels very safe. It's very capable machine.

Not to write a book here, but after our 3-wheel course, there quite a few Spyder converts. One gent rode a very nice BMW K1600. He came all decked out in some serious riding gear. At the end of the class, he said he was keeping his BMW, but he was going to get "one of those Spyders!" At the beginning of class, our instructor said to ride those Spyders like you stole them and this guy did. They could take it...

Were you ever teaching in Everett or Anacortes?

 

[lvmyspyder]

Were you ever teaching in Everett or Anacortes?

I was not teaching. I was taking the three wheel course In Kirkland, WA. Our instructor was extremely good. He really challenged us to push the Spyders, which pushed all of us. It was awesome, because we got to see how capable these machines were. They were all stock machines, but it was rather eye opening. The gent who rode the BMW, really rode them hard from the onset. For the rest of us, it was more gradual as we gained confidence. I honestly do not recall if drifting a Spyder was a requirement for passing the course, but we did some very aggressive evasive maneuvers that were required to pass. I believe that particular class evolved into drifting and until I was trying to keep up with Harper, I had not drifted my RT since, but the process of doing it came back pretty naturally and not only did he not lose me, my Spyder had a lot more to give, I could have easily passed him and waited for all of them when things flattened out. Once you get the hang of it, it's actually a well controlled maneuver on that machine and feels very safe. Until recently I had a BMW M3. That car could drift like crazy and talk about FUN. But honestly, I felt safer doing it on the bike. This clip is of an M4, which is the big sister to the car I had, and I could never drift mine like this, but I was always impressed with the skill of this driver and capabilities of this car. It is noticeable that he went one direction with the wheel, then snapped it back to get the drift started, then it was likely just power through it. Its about 2:27 in the video, but the rest of it is pretty cool to watch too.

I agree with others here, the time to learn how is before you need to, and don't push it if you are not comfortable doing it. It is fun, but with the Spyder being the machine that it is, you may never have to drift it at all. Until that time with Harper, I never did with my own bike, but once we started - the 3-wheel training kicked in. If not for that course, I do not think that I would really have known the bike was capable of that.