Check Suspension drop down message appears intermittently - any ideas/help?

[Mikey]

Thanks for that description It is an RT so space is tight but I was able to do exactly what you described yesterday with a fitting from the hardware store. I still have a small leak somewhere though as I slowly lose pressure after several hours. Could be a hole in the bag or the fitting at the bag which I can’t access. Thought about trying slime to see if it would seal the bag if it is indeed a hole in the bag.

If you jack up the back you can reach up in there, I believe to soap it down. Did you soap up the rest of the line and fittings?

Doesn’t slime require centrifugal force like in a tire to work by getting forced into the puncture hole?

There have been a few on here that say they have had good luck with it on the bag, I would make sure it's leaking there before I spent the time doing it that stuff makes a heck of a mess in my book, but it works if you can get it to where the leak is!

 

[Snowbelt Spyder]

Thanks for that description It is an RT so space is tight but I was able to do exactly what you described yesterday with a fitting from the hardware store. I still have a small leak somewhere though as I slowly lose pressure after several hours. Could be a hole in the bag or the fitting at the bag which I can’t access. Thought about trying slime to see if it would seal the bag if it is indeed a hole in the bag.

Mikey has given you excellent help. If I may add a couple of things….

Even though the air bag has a lot of pressure, it has a very small volume. Thus each time that you check air pressure, you’ll lose about 2 pounds. Plus, the pressure is sensitive to temperature changes. To get an accurate indication if you actually have a leak, allow it to sit at least overnight. If the pressure is still within a pound or two, then you probably don’t have a leak after all. And follow his advice and verify with the soapy water test on all the connections. As he pointed out, those push to connect fittings may feel completely seated, even when they are not.

History has shown that the majority of air bag leaks occur at the bottom of the bag, where the little stones and gravel accumulate. It wears a hole in the bag. Slime has been known to work in that case. You don’t need centrifugal force. All you need is gravity. Again, verify with soapy water testing. Ride safe. Good luck.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Thanks for that description It is an RT so space is tight but I was able to do exactly what you described yesterday with a fitting from the hardware store. I still have a small leak somewhere though as I slowly lose pressure after several hours. Could be a hole in the bag or the fitting at the bag which I can’t access. Thought about trying slime to see if it would seal the bag if it is indeed a hole in the bag.

Doesn’t slime require centrifugal force like in a tire to work by getting forced into the puncture hole?

Centrifugal force helps, especially on a tire where the leak/hole isn't all that likely to be only found down near the bottom of the tire, but if there's a leak with air actually flowing out of it with any real pressure, then it's not strictly essential just to stop a small leak.

With a tire, the centrifugal force is usually necessary in order to evenly distribute the recommended quantity of slime evenly around the inside of the tire so that it can form a protective skin for any future leaks, but you can usually seal an existing leak by either spinning the wheel to get the leak sitting down at/near about 150mm/6" from the lowest point; or if you don't know where the leak is, taking the whole wheel off the vehicle and lying it flat on the ground for a few minutes (it can help if you try to lay it down with the leak at the lowest point) before flipping it and lying it flat on the other side for another few more minutes, making sure there's still enough air pressure to have an air stream actually blowing out of the leak. If you've added enough of slime and your air pressure is enough to keep that air stream blowing, then the slime will tend to run (or be sucked/blown) into the leak and stop it, but it won't spread evenly around the entire insides of the tire until you spin it up and that centrifugal force thing kicks in!

But when it comes to these air bags, once you've got a direct line into the bag, rather than going thru the compressor, any valves, loops of air lines etc, then as long as the hole/leak isn't thru a gaping wound/big tear, you won't need too much slime (I've never needed to use much more than about 30 mls) or excessively high air pressure, but if you add a little slime to your air bag and then inflate it to slightly above the normal pressure in said bag (maybe 10 psi more?!) then the air flow out of the leak/s will usually blow the slime to, fill, & plug the leak/s, even if the leak is up high on the bag (altho they're often down at the bottom, where fine gravel/grit can get between the bottom of the bag and whatever it's sitting on/in, even if it's one of the guard/cups designed to stop bigger stones getting in between the bag base and the swing arm!) It can help if you actually ride the Spyder once the slime has been added, but if you can't do that for a while, then just add maybe another 5-10 psi of air pressure. The air bag is small enough that if there's air flowing out the leak, the slime will fairly readily be forced to and fill any leak it might have, even if it's up near/around where the air line comes in. And if at first it doesn't succeed, use the soapy water method to make sure it's actually a leak and not a tear or rip, then you can always try again.

Do you really need to ask me how I know this slime thing can really work on Spyder air bags (& tires)?!

 

[Lyleh]

Doesn’t slime require centrifugal force like in a tire to work by getting forced into the puncture hole?

I would have thought the same thing but decided to try anyway. The air pressure should also work to force it into a puncture. So far no more leaks and pressure has held constant for 48 hrs. Not sure about a long term fix but for now it is working.

 

[mecsw500]

I would worry about when a passenger isn’t being carried, the air bag will let air escape back into the pump assembly to escape via the relief valve. Will the slime eventually cause the escape valve to get bunged up?

Replacing the air bag once you have used slime might require a thorough clean out of the relief valve and the associated piping?

I don’t know if my suspicions have any weight, but if would be inclined to bite the bullet and replace the airbag unless it was an emergency out on the road, say on a trip.

If you have eliminated the compressor then all is probably OK, but if you are still using the complete system I’d would be a little more concerned.

Perhaps I’m over thinking things but that’s my five cents worth.

 

[Peter Aawen]

I would worry about when a passenger isn’t being carried, the air bag will let air escape back into the pump assembly to escape via the relief valve. Will the slime eventually cause the escape valve to get bunged up?

....

Perhaps I’m over thinking things but that’s my five cents worth.

Well, it hasn't done that yet, not on any of the Spyder's I've done this to myself (quite a few now, I stopped counting when I ran out of fingers & toes to count on ) or any of those where I've helped the owner's do it (see previous bracketed comment, same again! ) - not on even one of them, not in more than a decade of doing it &/or on Spyders that've since done more miles than many here have ridden/driven or ever will ride/drive in their lifetimes. Not even ONE!

Mind you, I've always only ever used 20-30 mls, and I've always put the slime directly into the air bag, or into an air line going directly into the air bag, not into the Schraeder valve or in via any air line up-stream of the compressor &/or any of the other fittings, all of which might be a significant contributor to this 'success' - but it is a tiny air bag, it really doesn't need much!

Still, all in all, then yeah, I'd say you might be over thinking things juuust a little, or at least worrying about something that's extremely unlikely.

Just Sayin'

 

[mecsw500]

Well that’s good to know. I was just wary about if there were any lasting side affects from doing it. I was just thinking what would happen if someone dumped a good deal of slime in there on the basis of more is better. 20-30 ml is a pretty small amount.

Do you do it as a lasting repair, or do you do it as a temporary fix until you can get to change the airbag out? Does it ever eventually give up the ghost after a certain period of time?

Just wondering how you deal with these issues long term?

In your experience, how do you think the airbag gets holes? I can understand perishing over a long period of time, especially with salted roads or extreme ambient heat, but how do you see the airbag getting the kind of punctures where slime would fix things?

Do you think Can Am do something to prevent issues with some kind of cover or shield?

 

[Peter Aawen]

The first few I did were due to the air bags getting tiny holes in their base, where the air bag sits on the swing arm. Get any dirt, grit, or even gravel in there (and chances are that if you actually ride your Spyder anything like 'often', you WILL eventually get something in there!) and the air bag then sits on that, grinding away at it as the swing arm moves while you ride, and eventually, you'll end up with at least one if not a bunch of tiny holes in the bottom of the air bag, worse if you're unlucky enough to get some chip seal sized rock chips in here!! Once I realised that was happening and that the 'cup type' guards you can get DO NOT stop that sorta grit getting picked up and wearing holes in the air bag, they just change WHERE the holes get worn, and make it harder to fix them using slime, then I started doing the slime thing as a preventative, and it works!

I've never had to do one twice, altho there have been a couple of Spyder ACS's I slimed that eventually needed something else replaced in the ACS, so the owner purchased the whole kit & I replaced everything for them, meaning that the air bag was also replaced at the same time; but most got the treatment just the once and are still going strong. Both of the treated air bags that were removed when the new kits went in have since ended up in other Spyders, when their original air bags failed for some reason or another beyond just a repairable air bag leak, and the treated replacements are still going strong in their second Spyder host.

The only Spyders I know of that have NEVER had an ACS problem, be it with the air bag, the compressor, the height sensor, air lines, or the compressor itself, either NEVER HAD the air bag style ACS to start with, or it was removed when the owner fitted shocks and coils early on, which meant the suspension no longer needed/used the air bag to help carry the load/make it all work properly!! If you've got the ACS, by-passing the compressor & height sensor etc, and making your ACS a purely manually operated system can mean that it's likely to work a lot longer than otherwise, but while ever it's got the air bag, that WILL ALWAYS remain a 'wear item'; and while the slime treatment can make the air bag last even longer, there will come a time when even that slime doesn't work anymore, so unless you've upgraded the shocks and coils already, you'll be left with a Spyder that no longer really has a suspension set up that's capable of working properly/carrying the load of rider, pillion, ect in normal riding, not without spending a rather painful amount of money on it anyway - which means that you either get to choose to replace all the crappy, no longer working OEM bits with expensive OEM replacements, and by doing so, end up with an ACS that you should by now KNOW is going to fail again at some stage; or you can replace the whole kit and caboodle with an after market suspension system that IS capable of carrying the load without the air bag/ACS assistance at all, and in doing so, arguably get a much better ride and handling, etc to boot!

So really, I reckon that you should consider the OEM BRP air bag type ACS as nothing much more than a mediocre attempt to do something that might have been a good idea if only BRP had bothered to use better quality components and provided sufficient customer service to get it working properly in the first place; but since they did cheap out on it and used crappy bits that only just manage to do the job IF everything works properly (which for many, is not all that often) then that means the OEM Air bag ACS is simply another cost cutting/transfer the expense of making it work properly attempt by BRP, since they've fitted 'less than capable' shocks and coils, supplementing them to give the short term appearance of proper functionality by fitting the 'soon to be dodgy' ACS and in doing so, they've once again foisted off all of the 'let's make this Spyder work properly' task and the associated costs of doing that onto whichever sucke... owners aren't switched on enough &/or don't ask enough of their Spyders to realise they've been had... just like with the Kenda/XPS/crapenda tires!!

I would tell you what I really thought about this sort of practice, but I'm sure that if I did, the Mod/Admin Team here would come down on me... HARD!

 

[Mikey]

I am with you 100% on this one Peter!!!

 

[mecsw500]

I don’t know about the XPS branded Kenda tires. I was pleasantly surprised on that front.

I just did a trip including Highway 12 in Utah and in the dry they were pretty good, better than the original Kendas by quite a margin.

The real test was coming back down from the Hogback section, the heavens opened up, the kind of weather on the original Kendas I would have been scared to continue riding. The new XPS branded Kenda ones handled the huge streams of water running down the road on the scary switch backs remarkably well.

So I think BRP sometimes listens, I think the number of warranty and quality issues on the original Kendas forced them to do something.

This is not to say car tires might be better still, but now the OEM tires as fitted to my 2026 S2S are at least fit for purpose. I’ve no idea if their claim to better mileage holds up though.

The stiffer construction helps the front suspension having a better initial feel when cornering.

So, here’s for hope they improve the quality of the compressor and airbag system on the rear. My Triumph Trophy TTSE and BMWs in the past had a system whereby you manually set the load, rider, rider+passenger, rider+passenger+luggage, on the dash and that system worked faultlessly for over 100k miles, setting not just ride height but damping too.

For a touring bike I think perhaps Can Am was trying to go one better and just cheaped out on the major components but I’m not sure that level of automation Can Am went to with a ride height sensor and an air bag coupled in a feedback loop was worth it. The kind of system Triumph and BMW used with everything built into the shock unit itself seemed superior.

I was surprised at the cheap construction of the compressor and associated air pressure release valve.