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Is this the VSS not working? Anyone experienced it before? What came of it?

Freddy

Active member
Asking for a friend - who has a 2017 F3 SM6 which he bought used a few years ago, done about 48,000km. He told me yesterday that a few days earlier he and his pillion nearly got flipped when taking a right-hand street corner a bit too fast - the right wheel lifted off the ground so far that the left splash guard pictured below scraped on the pavement. He said it's happened to him previously but not with a pillion on. They were both somewhat shaken by the experience. I told him that this should never happen because the VSS should cut in and drop the trike immediately it senses wheel lift and that it should also display VSS warnings on the dash. Alarmingly, he said it did not and that he has never seen it.
:yikes:

In all the years I've been on this forum I've not read of such a concern - only that Nanny can be too intrusive when having a bit of fun, which he wasn't trying to do with his pillion on board.

Anyone had or read of such an experience? If so, what came of it?

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He (or the previous owner) hasn't by any chance disabled or otherwise by-passed the Pillion Switch under the pillion seat, has he?? :dontknow:

That can be done fairly readily by something as simple as putting the cap off fly-spray can or maybe a PVC plumbing fitting over the switch so that the weight of a pillion passenger on the seat doesn't trigger the switch & thereby increase the Nanny's sensitivity/bring on earlier intervention, but there are other ways to bypass that switch/sensor that might not be quite so obvious - so that'd be the first thing I'd check; make sure that the switch is active & working as intended/designed! :lecturef_smilie:

However, you (&/or he) shouldn't be too stressed by momentarily lifting a front wheel &/or even scraping the splash guard thing; the individual sensors the Nanny uses to initiate an intervention do sometimes take a bit to get upset and she won't normally get too aggressive in her intervention unless more than one of those sensors is SUDDENLY &/or AGGRESSIVELY triggered. And if that inside wheel was only lifted for a moment or two, not long enough to have slowed its rate of spin down too much and trigger a wheel speed sensor, then it's rotational speed will likely still have been within acceptable parameters; while the 'yaw &/or rolling moment' might not have yet made enough of a rate or angle to trigger any response to that... So just momentarily lifting a wheel during what is otherwise a pretty constant rate turn at a steady speed is not something that's too untoward or even impossible to do without triggering a Nanny intervention, it's just not something most would usually choose to do with a pillion passenger aboard!! :rolleyes:

It's generally a combination of turning fairly aggressively and accelerating fairly hard at the same time that gets you lifting a front wheel for long enough for it to change its rate of spin and to trigger a yaw/roll reaction; and once you know it can be done without flipping or even getting near flipping, then if you practice doing it, you can learn to pretty much do it at will; and with further practice you might even be able to keep the wheel up fairly high for quite some distance once you've established the lift - usually achieved simply by maintaining a steady rate turn without touching the brakes, but some riders with a well maintained bike (so no rapid wheel speed slowing once in the air) can hold that wheel up while riding in a straight line for a couple of hundred metres with practice - even going as far as scraping an F3's splash guard the whole time!! Mind you, if you do practice doing this deliberately, the splash guard really doesn't usually take too long to wear away/get torn off, and then you'll never have that particular problem again! :p

That said, do be aware that it is a fair bit easier to do this 'Spyder Ryder's Salute' by lifting one front wheel if you're riding an RT, altho their higher CoG not only makes it easier to do it on them, but it also does tend to be a whole lot easier to take it too far and if you're lucky, bring on fairly aggressive Nanny intervention sooner... nojoke
 
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Everything Peter said above, and also, being a SM6 model, don't forget that popping the clutch while turning will generate a wheelie!!
 
I had the pillion seat off yesdy while replacing the fuel filter and saw nothing odd. This is the first I've seen or read of splash guard scraping.

On my GS, Nanny is always lurking ready to pounce even without a pillion. Perhaps she is much less sensitive on the F3.

I'll tell the owner to slow down when cornering.
 
What exactly did your friend think the VSS was supposed to do? A big hand from the sky pushing him down so all three wheels touched the ground?

Physics don't work that way. The VSS knew what was going on, especially with the SAS and YRS, but wisely did not intervene except maybe ease off the throttle a bit. Nothing else could be done to improve the situation with the actuators available to the VSS. The right wheel was in the air so brake modulation wasn't an option. The left wheel was crabbed hardover so increasing its brake line pressure wasn't an option especially since understeer was likely in effect -- which was a good thing. Increasing rear brake line pressure would only transfer weight to the front left wheel changing understeer to oversteer and likely a wheel-up finale.

The VSS was smarter than your friend who apparently doesn't understand the physics of a 3-wheeler and probably a 4-wheeler either.

BTW there is no wheel lift sensor -- read the service manual.
 
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