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Anyone else had problems with Fuel in oil? Ideas?

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but you’re way overthinking this. The procedure for getting an accurate reading of oil level is to check it hot. Not when the coolant is hot, but when the oil is hot. Come home from your ride, turn off the engine and check it immediately. Pull the dipstick out, wipe it, screw it all the way back in, pull it out and check. There’s no splash. If you delay, oil will gravity drain from the tank back into the sump over time. You can get a 3 inch rise on the dipstick between cold and hot.

When oil level is proper, it doesn’t even show on the dipstick when cold. Checking it cold is bad information and shouldn’t be done.

The vast majority of oil level issues on the 998 is just improper technique checking and adding oil. And besides, your riding style and habits would preclude gas accumulating in the oil, anyway. The high oil temperature will evaporate off any accumulation of gasoline.

So, check it and adjust the level correctly. Only when hot. Then follow the trend in oil level. Personally, I think you’re fine. Yes, go forward with that crankcase breather mod. Helps with other issues.

Did this change from year to year? My 2019 RTL (1330) manual very clearly states to let it idle for 10 minutes after reaching operating temperature before checking the oil. So I go for a ride, and at the end of the ride I let it idle while I remove the plastic, then I shut it off and check the oil. BTW, I hate bent dipstick tubes. Seems like there always false tell residue on the edges, and it's hard to get a pure "for sure" reading.
 
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Did this change from year to year? My 2019 RTL (1330) manual very clearly states to let it idle for 10 minutes after reaching operating temperature before checking the oil. So I go for a ride, and at the end of the ride I let it idle while I remove the plastic, then I shut it off and check the oil. BTW, I hate bent dipstick tubes. Seems like there always false tell residue on the edges, and it's hard to get a pure "for sure" reading.

Yes, the BRP instructions have changed over the years. But in my opinion, the changes were unnecessary. Here is something that you should try. Ride, get the engine oil up to operating temperature, stop and check the oil level. Then start it up and let it idle for 10 minutes and check again. I am confident that you won't see a dims worth of difference between the 2 checks. Not only is letting your engine idle for 10 minutes wasteful and aggravating, but it's also downright bad for the engine!
 
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Yes, the BRP instructions have changed over the years. But in my opinion, the changes were unnecessary. Here is something that you should try. Ride, get the engine oil up to operating temperature, stop and check the oil level. Then start it up and let it idle for 10 minutes and check again. I am confident that you won't see a dims worth of difference between the 2 checks. Not only is letting your engine idle for 10 minutes wasteful and aggravating, but it's also downright bad for the engine!

Idling when it’s hot at the end of the ride is bad? I thought you had always meant idling cold then turning it back off was bad.

FWIW, here’s my service manual procedure and explanation:

Verifying the Engine Oil Level
NOTICE The oil level must be checked and adjusted when the oil temperature is between 80°C and 95°C (176°F and 203°F), to obtain a precise reading on the dipstick of the actual quantity of oil in the engine.
1. Take a ride of minimum 15 km (9.3 mi).
2. Park the vehicle on a level surface.
3. Let the engine run at idle for 10 minutes. NOTICE Alternative warm up procedure for the dealers workshop: If it is not possible to take a 15km(9.3mi) ride it is admissible to achieve the adequate engine oil temperature by running the engine at idle for minimum 35 minutes.
NOTE: Running engine at idle as described will maintain the engine oil temperature between 80°C and 95°C (176°F and 203°F), and allow the scavenge oil pumps to drain the oil from the engine back into the oil tank. Not carrying out this step could result in overfilling the engine oil.
NOTICE Perform engine oil level verification within 2 minutes after engine shutdown.
4. Stop engine.
5. Unscrew and remove the oil dipstick.
…blah blah blah
 
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Idling when it’s hot at the end of the ride is bad? I thought you had always meant idling cold then turning it back off was bad.

FWIW, here’s my service manual procedure and explanation:

Yes, and No, not JUST then!! The simple and basic fact is that IDLING your IC Engine is bad, especially for anything much longer than sitting waiting for the traffic lights to change! :shocked:

So if you let it idle excessively when it’s hot at the end of the ride, IT IS bad! Also, if you let it idle for too long when cold, IT IS bad; AND if you do that thinking that you're helping the battery stay good, you are NOT!! That will just hasten the demise of the battery! And even that Alternative procedure for making sure the oil is up to temp by running the engine at idle for minimum 35 minutes is not good - but it is possibly better than NOT checking the oil level at oil temp and overfilling the oil; and besides, they're a dealer, they WANT you to either need to bring your Spyder in to get it repaired due to too much idling, or better yet, to trade it in on a new Spyder!! So it's not bad, for them, just for your engine!! :banghead:

At its most basic, idling your Spyder's engine for anything much longer that waiting for the lights to change is NOT GOOD for the engine or its battery (or the environment for those who are concerned about that aspect of all this ;) ) In fact, idling just about any IC Engine for anything much longer is not good for the engine (or the environment) ; and if at all possible, should be minimised if not avoided if possible! :lecturef_smilie:

Just Sayin' :thumbup:
 
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Yes, and No, not JUST then!! The simple and basic fact is that IDLING your IC Engine is bad, especially for anything much longer than sitting waiting for the traffic lights to change! :shocked:

So if you let it idle excessively when it’s hot at the end of the ride, IT IS bad! Also, if you let it idle for too long when cold, IT IS bad; AND if you do that thinking that you're helping the battery stay good, you are NOT!! That will just hasten the demise of the battery! And even that Alternative procedure for making sure the oil is up to temp by running the engine at idle for minimum 35 minutes is not good - but it is possibly better than NOT checking the oil level at oil temp and overfilling the oil; and besides, they're a dealer, they WANT you to either need to bring your Spyder in to get it repaired due to too much idling, or better yet, to trade it in on a new Spyder!! So it's not bad, for them, just for your engine!! :banghead:

At its most basic, idling your Spyder's engine for anything much longer that waiting for the lights to change is NOT GOOD for the engine or its battery (or the environment for those who are concerned about that aspect of all this ;) ) In fact, idling just about any IC Engine for anything much longer is not good for the engine (or the environment) ; and if at all possible, should be minimised if not avoided if possible! :lecturef_smilie:

Just Sayin' :thumbup:

The "oil scavaging" part is hooey, and can be ignored? I'm paranoid to not overfill or underfill my oil level, and I want to get it right.
 
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Idling when it’s hot at the end of the ride is bad? I thought you had always meant idling cold then turning it back off was bad.

No, idling at the end of a ride is not bad. Actually, if it's been a hard ride in heat, it doesn't hurt to let the bike idle for a short time (30 seconds to 1 minute). This allows the various components to equalize temperatures. The hotter parts will have a chance to cool a bit and the cooler parts will act as a heat sink pulling heat from the hotter parts. I do this when I am going to check the oil level.

Idling a cold bike is not good. I knew a guy who would go out and start his bike on cold days, then go back in and have a cup of coffee before riding. He did this on a regular basis and it ended up ruining that bike over time. Even though he took very good care of it otherwise. The same applies to a car or truck, though it is probably worse in a high performance engine like the Spyder.

Finally, long idle times are bad for any internal combustion engine. Worse when cold but still not good when hot. It is a cumulative thing which won't hurt you right away. But over time it can add up.
 
The "oil scavaging" part is hooey, and can be ignored? I'm paranoid to not overfill or underfill my oil level, and I want to get it right.

Not hooey, but after a ride you are not going to pull up and shut the engine down at 5,000 PRM's. It's going to idle for a short while which should be more than enuff to return any oil to the sump.

I guess I need to dig out the post or at least the data where I did actual testing of idle time, vs engine temp vs oil temp vs oil level. Quick summary showed the lag in oil temp behind engine temp and level was not correct until correct oil temp was reached.
 
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The "oil scavaging" part is hooey, and can be ignored? I'm paranoid to not overfill or underfill my oil level, and I want to get it right.

No, the 'oil scavenging' part is not hooey, it's perfectly valid, after all, that IS what the scavenge pumps do - but the excessive idling per the 'Let it idle for 10 minutes' part or the alternative 'running the engine at idle for minimum 35 minutes' is NOT GOOD for your engine!! :lecturef_smilie:

If you want to get your oil level right, then those instructions you quoted earlier should be revised to read something like this:

NOTICE: The oil level must be checked and adjusted when the oil temperature is between 80°C and 95°C (176°F and 203°F), to obtain a precise reading on the dipstick of the actual quantity of oil in the engine.
1. Take a ride of minimum 15 km (9.3 mi).
2. Park the vehicle on a level surface.
3. Let the engine run at idle for no more than 2 minutes. NOTICE: there is no truly safe alternative for your engine if it involves idling for more than about 2 minutes - just do the Ride and check within 2 minutes of shutting the engine down!
NOTE: Running engine at idle as described will maintain the engine oil temperature between 80°C and 95°C (176°F and 203°F), and allow the scavenge oil pumps to drain the oil from the engine back into the oil tank. Not carrying out this step could result in overfilling the engine oil.
NOTICE Perform engine oil level verification within 2 minutes after engine shutdown.
4. Stop engine.
5. Unscrew and remove the oil dipstick.
…blah blah blah​

It's the excessive idling that's the issue, it does all sorts of nasty things to your engine and should be avoided if at all possible! :thumbup:

And remember, if you do follow those instructions and the dipstick level is above the Low mark on the dipstick, then YOU HAVE ENOUGH OIL for safe engine running!! You might not want to head off on a 1000-mile trip if the level is only juuuust a smidge above the Low mark, but the 1330's rarely use a heap of oil, and the 998's don't use that much that quickly, so it's certainly safe to ride up to a couple of hundred miles or so. So if you follow those instructions and the level on the dipstick is anywhere between the Low & Full mark, then YOU HAVE ENOUGH OIL for safe engine running!! :thumbup:

BUT be aware, that if you stop the engine and leave it sit & let the oil settle internally for anything more than about 2 minutes before checking the oil level, then the level shown on the dipstick (if any) IS NOT A RELIABLE LEVEL INDICATION and should not be used as an indicator of needing to add more oil, regardless of whether the sitting period was 5 minutes, 12 hours, or 3 years! However, if you checked the oil after your last ride as per the instructions above and the oil level was OK, then unless you've got a dirty great puddle of oil under the Spyder when you come back to ride it again, &/or unless there's a chance/you suspect that someone's ducked in and drained the oil on you just to be a pratt, it's going to be pretty close to absofreakinlutely certain that you'll have enough oil in there so that you're safe to ride - regardless of whether the sitting period was 5 minutes, 12 hours, or 3 years... :lecturef_smilie:

Simples really! ;)

Edit: Sorry Ron & Ed, I'm not trying to stomp on or ignore your responses; it's just that I started drafting a reply, but clearly took too long to submit it - & I guess shoulda checked for other replies before I submitted... :opps:
 
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Thanks guys! I think I got it, and think I've hijacked the OP's original topic too much at this point.

Allen, I will add to the confusion some more for you. Sometimes you can let things set for several days and check the oil cold and it will be right on the full mark. Go for ride and repeat the cold test and the dipstick might not even touch the oil. That is what has caused nightmares for some folks that don't understand the reasoning behind the crazy process of correctly checking the oil level.
 
Just as some closure to my part in this thread:

I took the bike to my doctor visit today. About a 30 minute trip in 100 degrees, varying from 70mph to 0mph. Upon my return, I checked the oil as quickly as I could get parked, my gear off, and the bike seat up, etc. (maybe 1-2 mins). Oil was right in the middle between min and max. Then I restarted it, and let it idle for 10 minutes, then turned it off and checked it immediately. Zero noticeable change in the level, as you guys (especially Ron) predicted!

Thanks. This matter is settled for me now. Idling not needed, and is bad. Now I'm going to take a cool shower.
 
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