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Any success with 2022-2023 tuning/EU Emissions Torque Limiter removal?

T

TheSwede

New member
So, I'm one of the Europeans suffering from an underperforming Ryker due to the EU being EU and limiting the power from 0-80km/h.
2019-2021 models are easily fixed but has anyone with a European Ryker managed to get rid of the limiter on the later models?
A guy from Sweden said he got his removed by a smaller local company, but I can't get a hold of the guy to ask him what company, so I can't really verify.

I'm gonna take mine to another company in a cpl of weeks that says they haven't had any issues removing the limiters on Can Am's remaining range of vehicles 4x4, ATV's, and so on of their 2022-2023, models so they wanted to read the ECU of mine to check.
 
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TheSwede said:
So, im one of the Europeans suffering from an underperforming Ryker due to the EU being EU and limiting the power from 0-80km/h.
2019-2021 models are easily fixed but has anyone with a European ryker managed to get rid of the limiter on the later models?
A guy from Sweden said he got his removed by a smaller local company but cant get a hold of the guy to ask him what company that did it so i cant really verify.

Im gonna take mine to another company in a cpl of weeks that says they havent had any issues removing the limiters on can am's remaining range of vehicles 4x4, ATV's and so on of 2022-2023 models so they wanted to read the ECU of mine to check.
Click to expand...

IMHO BRP hasn't changed the engines on the Rykers..... so I think a Fix for for the earlier ones should work for the newer ones .... Mike :thumbup:
 
BLUEKNIGHT911 said:
IMHO BRP hasn't changed the engines on the Rykers..... so I think a Fix for for the earlier ones should work for the newer ones .... Mike :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not. The engine is the same but the map is changed.
Example from a Dynojet retailer.

However we are strugling with 2022-2023 models. It is because BRP is inserting more and more protections and new ECU very frequently and DYNOJET simply cannot find an answer to that.
 
TheSwede said:
Unfortunately not. The engine is the same but the map is changed.
Example from a Dynojet retailer.

However we are strugling with 2022-2023 models. It is because BRP is inserting more and more protections and new ECU very frequently and DYNOJET simply cannot find an answer to that.
Click to expand...

Thanks - good luck .... Mike :thumbup:
 
Check the Martin the vlogger videos.
One mentions that the pedal box or pedal commander helps with the problem.
Much easier than changing the map.
 
Thought he said that it makes u able to adjust throttle response and such but that it doesnt bypass the power limiter? I will check the video again
 
Raven said:
Check the Martin the vlogger videos.
One mentions that the pedal box or pedal commander helps with the problem.
Much easier than changing the map.
Click to expand...
Pedal box or Pedal Commander changes the sensitivity of the twist grip; does nothing for power.
 
DickB said:
Pedal box or Pedal Commander changes the sensitivity of the twist grip; does nothing for power.
Click to expand...

:agree: .... you can get the throttle control and MORE POWER for a little bit more money from " Monster Fuel ". .... so that's what I think makes more sense .....JMHO ... Mike :thumbup:
 
I would talk to Martin. As he is would be familiar with the problem and might be able to offer some help.
 
I have spoken to him and we discussed the pedal box since it will give u slightly better acceleration allthough it wont fix the power restriction.
 
TheSwede said:
I have spoken to him and we discussed the pedal box since it will give u slightly better acceleration allthough it wont fix the power restriction.
Click to expand...
No, it won't.

Look at the Pedal Commander drawing. Pedal Commander plugs in between the twist grip and the ECU. It alters the signal to the ECU. It does not change anything in the ECU. Pedal Commander provides a chart illustrating what Pedal Commander does to the twist grip signal. With Pedal Commander, to get 100% twist grip signal to the ECU, you must twist 100%. Same as without Pedal Commander. At 100% twist, you get 100% signal to the ECU in either case.

How do you get maximum acceleration from a Ryker? Open the throttle 100%. How do you get 100% throttle with Pedal Commander? Twist the grip 100%. How do you get 100% throttle without Pedal Commander? Twist the grip 100%. Same change in power output in the same amount of time in either case, therefore, same acceleration.

Look at Pedal Commander’s response chart in City mode. If you twist the grip 30%, Pedal Commander sends a 50% signal to the ECU. You get the same signal to the ECU as if you twisted the grip 50% without Pedal Commander. The acceleration in either case has to be the same, because the ECU has not been altered, the throttle body servo motor has not been altered; nothing except the twist grip input to the ECU has been altered. And, by Pedal Commander’s own chart, that signal can be exactly duplicated by twisting the grip a bit more without Pedal Commander.

No question Pedal Commander changes twist grip sensitivity, but it does not and cannot change acceleration.
 

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DickB said:
No, it won't.

Look at the Pedal Commander drawing. Pedal Commander plugs in between the twist grip and the ECU. It alters the signal to the ECU. It does not change anything in the ECU. Pedal Commander provides a chart illustrating what Pedal Commander does to the twist grip signal. With Pedal Commander, to get 100% twist grip signal to the ECU, you must twist 100%. Same as without Pedal Commander. At 100% twist, you get 100% signal to the ECU in either case.

How do you get maximum acceleration from a Ryker? Open the throttle 100%. How do you get 100% throttle with Pedal Commander? Twist the grip 100%. How do you get 100% throttle without Pedal Commander? Twist the grip 100%. Same change in power output in the same amount of time in either case, therefore, same acceleration.

Look at Pedal Commander’s response chart in City mode. If you twist the grip 30%, Pedal Commander sends a 50% signal to the ECU. You get the same signal to the ECU as if you twisted the grip 50% without Pedal Commander. The acceleration in either case has to be the same, because the ECU has not been altered, the throttle body servo motor has not been altered; nothing except the twist grip input to the ECU has been altered. And, by Pedal Commander’s own chart, that signal can be exactly duplicated by twisting the grip a bit more without Pedal Commander.

No question Pedal Commander changes twist grip sensitivity, but it does not and cannot change acceleration.
Click to expand...

Im not talking about the pedal commander, im talking about the pedal box. Default throttle response is at 65%, pedal box sets it to 94% so even if you go max throttle within a millisecond, you wont get max power until the set throttle curve is done. Having a more aggressive curve will give u max power sooner when you twist the throttle, instead of as it is now where you twist the throttle max but the signal to the engine will have a slow wind up curve, like slowly twisting the throttle on a wired throttle. Probably wont do alot but it will help with the slow response the ryker comes with by default. Feels almost like turbo lag.
 
TheSwede said:
Im not talking about the pedal commander, im talking about the pedal box. Default throttle response is at 65%, pedal box sets it to 94% so even if you go max throttle within a millisecond, you wont get max power until the set throttle curve is done. Having a more aggressive curve will give u max power sooner when you twist the throttle, instead of as it is now where you twist the throttle max but the signal to the engine will have a slow wind up curve, like slowly twisting the throttle on a wired throttle. Probably wont do alot but it will help with the slow response the ryker comes with by default. Feels almost like turbo lag.
Click to expand...
Pedal Commander, Pedal Box, Sprint Booster, all variations of the same thing.

Your statement "as it is now where you twist the throttle max but the signal to the engine will have a slow wind up curve" is not correct. If you twist the grip 100% you get 100% signal to the ECU, with or without a Pedal Box. Unless you are in the Ryker's Eco mode, the throttle is going to open fully virtually immediately. The curves that Pedal Box shows is the signal to the ECU, not the signal out of the ECU to the throttle body. The Ryker's default mode is not a slow response; it is only slow in Eco mode.

I extensively tested a Sprint Booster decades ago. Drive by wire throttle bodies have a TPS (Throttle Position Signal) to the ECU so that the ECU knows exactly the position of the throttle opening. I recorded the accelerator pedal signal to the ECU and the TPS signal to the ECU with and without Sprint Booster. The TPS (and thus the throttle opening) tracked the accelerator pedal signal to the ECU with virtually no lag, with or without Sprint Booster, and the tiny amount of lag was the same in either case. Pedal Box response is not going to be any different.

I can make the same measurements on my Ryker, but I already know what the result will be.
 

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DickB said:
Pedal Commander, Pedal Box, Sprint Booster, all variations of the same thing.

Your statement "as it is now where you twist the throttle max but the signal to the engine will have a slow wind up curve" is not correct. If you twist the grip 100% you get 100% signal to the ECU, with or without a Pedal Box. Unless you are in the Ryker's Eco mode, the throttle is going to open fully virtually immediately. The curves that Pedal Box shows is the signal to the ECU, not the signal out of the ECU to the throttle body. The Ryker's default mode is not a slow response; it is only slow in Eco mode.

I extensively tested a Sprint Booster decades ago. Drive by wire throttle bodies have a TPS (Throttle Position Signal) to the ECU so that the ECU knows exactly the position of the throttle opening. I recorded the accelerator pedal signal to the ECU and the TPS signal to the ECU with and without Sprint Booster. The TPS (and thus the throttle opening) tracked the accelerator pedal signal to the ECU with virtually no lag, with or without Sprint Booster, and the tiny amount of lag was the same in either case. Pedal Box response is not going to be any different.

I can make the same measurements on my Ryker, but I already know what the result will be.
Click to expand...
Then it must be an EU thing along with the emissions limiter because people who use them says it gets way more aggressive on the launch and seeing people launch their Rykers in US isn't anything like it is for us in the EU. The power limiter lets go after 80km/h and after that its way more responsive, both on power and throttle, at least on mine.
And a quick max throttle at low speeds feels sluggish in Rally mode, feels like it has a delay....
 
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TheSwede said:
Then it must be an EU thing along with the emissions limiter because people who use them says it gets way more aggressive on the launch and seeing people launch their Rykers in US isn't anything like it is for us in the EU. The power limiter lets go after 80km/h and after that its way more responsive, both on power and throttle, at least on mine.
And a quick max throttle at low speeds feels sluggish in Rally mode, feels like it has a delay....
Click to expand...

Interesting. A quick full twist of the twist grip on my 2019 Rally will spin the rear tire in any mode but ECO.
 
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DickB said:
Interesting. A quick full twist of the twist grip on my 2019 Rally will spin the rear tire in any mode but ECO.
Click to expand...

Same on mine but it chokes out quick. If I do a quick max throttle and back off again, you can feel how slow it reacts. When I go 80km/h or above, it's instant.
I did a comparison with another guy who has a stock 2020 and he pulls away from me without issues, and that's why I'm getting salty and want the limiter removed. ;)
Not sure if they messed with the stability systems as well, cause I can't take corners as hard either before it starts choking off the power.
 
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I have a 2020 Rally and it gets sideways even in eco. Riding in the rain in eco starting on a hill it spins the rear tire at the slightest throttle input. I have no mods to the trike.
 
Should not be difficult to install an aftermarket ECM like Haltech. It doesn't have power steering so it's basically engine control only. If you want to leave the OEM cluster, then you'll need to piggy-back both ECU's. Or you can replace the OEM with a Haltech dash, but it's pretty expensive...
 
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Badmotorf1nger said:
Does anyone make or plan to make a standalone ECU for the Ryker?
Click to expand...

Not sure if this helps, but talk to Joe Moore at Treal Performance.
Seen a video of them running a Ryker on a dyno.
They had to disable all the nanny modes to get it to run on the dyno.
I can't get the video to link up, but it's on you tube " Ryker on a dyno"
 
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