Brake/Tail LED’s cause VSS/Limp Home msg - what do I do?

[DaniBoy]

So I bought a cheap set of 1157 LED’s for the brake/tail lights. VSS/Limp happened. No surprise. I contacted Superbrightleds and was told that I needed Can Bus bulbs. I ordered them, and the same thing happens. They work beautifully with the key on, but starting the bike gives me the same VSS/Limp message. Switching back to the standard incandescent bulbs makes the fault go away. So what do I do when even Can Bus LEDS generate the fault?

 

[CloverHillCrawler]

So I bought a cheap set of 1157 LED’s for the brake/tail lights. VSS/Limp happened. No surprise. I contacted Superbrightleds and was told that I needed Can Bus bulbs. I ordered them, and the same thing happens. They work beautifully with the key on, but starting the bike gives me the same VSS/Limp message. Switching back to the standard incandescent bulbs makes the fault go away. So what do I do when even Can Bus LEDS generate the fault?

Interested to see the answer to this, I bought a set that were supposed to be "can bus" ready. And they did something really weird.

They would start flashing normally then hyper flash after about 5 flashes. Never got a vss or limp message but I did the hyperflash reset as described in lamonsters video and it would work normal while riding at speed but would do the normal/hyperflash thing while at lights. after about 2 trips out I just removed them to avoid any damage that they may cause to the canbus. But on another note I did replace the backup light with an 6500k led replacement and no issues so far.

Most likely a load resistor will be needed in order to make it work. Some of the bulb manufactures will supply them upon request. Contact the entity that you bought it from and see if they supply them.

 

[Motorcycledave]

So I bought a cheap set of 1157 LED’s for the brake/tail lights. VSS/Limp happened. No surprise. I contacted Superbrightleds and was told that I needed Can Bus bulbs. I ordered them, and the same thing happens. They work beautifully with the key on, but starting the bike gives me the same VSS/Limp message. Switching back to the standard incandescent bulbs makes the fault go away. So what do I do when even Can Bus LEDS generate the fault?

REMOVE THOSE BULBS and replace with the correct bulbs, you can not put other than stock bulbs in place
you can however use some after market lights if installed correctly

 

[DaniBoy]

REMOVE THOSE BULBS and replace with the correct bulbs, you can not put other than stock bulbs in place
you can however use some after market lights if installed correctly

If installed correctly?? Put them in and a quarter turn to the right. I’m just wondering how other’s have LED brake lights that are working just fine. Mine are supposedly Can bus but make a VSS/Limp message. What bulbs do I need?

 

[Mikey]

Sometimes you have to listen to your Nanny!!:shemademe_smilie:

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

If installed correctly?? Put them in and a quarter turn to the right. I’m just wondering how other’s have LED brake lights that are working just fine. Mine are supposedly Can bus but make a VSS/Limp message. What bulbs do I need?

Non CanBus bulbs. The brake and tail lights are in no way tied into the Can Bus system. Both circuits are just plain old electrical light circuits.

 

[Peter Aawen]

REMOVE THOSE BULBS and replace with the correct bulbs, you can not put other than stock bulbs in place
you can however use some after market lights if installed correctly

If installed correctly?? Put them in and a quarter turn to the right. I’m just wondering how other’s have LED brake lights that are working just fine. Mine are supposedly Can bus but make a VSS/Limp message. What bulbs do I need?

I can see there's a bit of confusion going on up there - you are still talking about the light globes themselves Dani, what you lot call bulbs (only we all know bulbs go in the ground & eventually grow more daisies! ) while Dave is talking about after market LIGHTS, ie, complete light assemblies with casings and lenses and globes inside them that get wired up & connected to a completely different set of wiring. :lecturef_smilie:

So Dave is suggesting that you put the OE/stock globes back, cos replacing the OE globes in the Brake & tail lights with LED's so often doesn't work well, and then get yourself a new set of a/mkt auxiliary lights and install them correctly! hyea:

But as Idaho suggests.... well, implies anyway - the brake/tail lights shouldn't be interfering with the CanBus stuff anyway, so you probably just need a good quality set of LED's, possibly with resistance diodes built in, and not just any old cheap LED stuff, cos the cheap stuff probably won't work well if at all, and if your brake lights don't work, then the Nanny will detect that & interpret it as a failure somewhere in the BRAKE SYSTEM itself, not necessarily just a dodgy LED in the wiring circuit that doesn't have enough resistance for the Nanny to detect whenever it's illuminated properly! :gaah:

Oh, and remember that LED's will only illuminate if they're connected the correct way - if you wire them in & they don't light up when they should, you really should ALWAYS try swapping the wires so that their connection into the circuit is the other way round ie, you've reversed the polarity feeding the LED's - chances are (if they're good quality LED's anyway, like those you'd get from Lamonster Garages, our owner/sponsor here ) that you just had the wiring the wrong way around for them so they wouldn't light up! Swap the wires around/reverse the polarity of their wiring & it's likely they will light up & work fine. :thumbup:

Just Sayin! :cheers:

 

[DaniBoy]

Thanks, Peter. The lugs on the side of the base are offset, so the globes only fit in the socket the right way. The running lights come on with the key, and pressing the brake pedal lights that part up just fine. However, they use so little power that the nanny thinks they’re not working at all. I really don’t like the way that BRP designed that system. If even one brake or tail light burns out, the nanny throws a vss fault and goes into limp mode. That to me is stupid. Limping along a roadway seems far more dangerous than having a burnt out light. I wish I could figure out how to make the rear lights bypass the nanny. I’ll call Lamonster tomorrow and see what he has to offer.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Thanks, Peter. The lugs on the side of the base are offset, so the globes only fit in the socket the right way. The running lights come on with the key, and pressing the brake pedal lights that part up just fine. However, they use so little power that the nanny thinks they’re not working at all. I really don’t like the way that BRP designed that system. If even one brake or tail light burns out, the nanny throws a vss fault and goes into limp mode. That to me is stupid. Limping along a roadway seems far more dangerous than having a burnt out light. I wish I could figure out how to make the rear lights bypass the nanny. I’ll call Lamonster tomorrow and see what he has to offer.

Why do you think it's nanny related? The 2010 RS isn't as sophisticated as the RT, and the RT brake/tail light has no connection to Can bus or the ECM. The ECM does not monitor the brake/tail light circuit except to turn off cruise control when you hit the brake, and that happens because one input into the ECM goes high to 12 volts. If you can show me in the wiring diagram how they are related then I'll more than willingly retract my comment. The Canbus on the Spyder is a communication network among all the processors, and the lights are not part of the network.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

DaniBoy, I may need to do a little bit of back pedaling. I just looked at the wiring diagram again and thought about it some more. The ECM may monitor the brake light circuit, but it does not monitor the current flow through it. If it is monitoring the circuit it does it by measuring the resistance to ground when the brake light is off. So, it's time for some troubleshooting. Remove both bulbs and start the engine. What happens then? What happens when you press the brake? Go for a spin around the block and see what happens when you're not braking and when you are braking. Now, put one bulb in. DO NOT use a Canbus bulb. Canbus bulbs have digital processors built into them it may very well play havoc with the electronics in the ECM. Go for another ride and see what happens. If you get a VSS error without either bulb installed, or only one installed, that ascertains that the ECM does in fact monitor the circuit. If no VSS errors show up then that is a clear indication your problem is caused by trying to use Canbus bulbs.

Your comment about low current draw is probably dead on if you get VSS errors with no, or only one, bulb. In that case you will need to do what others have done to cure a similar problem with front turn signals. You will need to add a resister parallel to the bulb filament in order to decrease the resistance to ground that the ECM sees.

In essence you have been barking up the wrong tree. You have been focused on the Canbus aspect. You do not want to use Canbus bulbs. The tree you need look at is the high resistance to ground that is the nature of LED lights.

Don't bother to ask Lamont how to bypass nanny as you suggest above. It can't be done. If the high resistance to ground is causing the VSS errors what is happening is this. When the ECM sees a high resistance in the brake light it generates an error message that goes to the VSS. The VSS then displays that error. I can assure you the VSS does not monitor light circuits directly.

Let us know what you discover.

 

[DaniBoy]

DaniBoy, I may need to do a little bit of back pedaling. I just looked at the wiring diagram again and thought about it some more. The ECM may monitor the brake light circuit, but it does not monitor the current flow through it. If it is monitoring the circuit it does it by measuring the resistance to ground when the brake light is off. So, it's time for some troubleshooting. Remove both bulbs and start the engine. What happens then? What happens when you press the brake? Go for a spin around the block and see what happens when you're not braking and when you are braking. Now, put one bulb in. DO NOT use a Canbus bulb. Canbus bulbs have digital processors built into them it may very well play havoc with the electronics in the ECM. Go for another ride and see what happens. If you get a VSS error without either bulb installed, or only one installed, that ascertains that the ECM does in fact monitor the circuit. If no VSS errors show up then that is a clear indication your problem is caused by trying to use Canbus bulbs.

Your comment about low current draw is probably dead on if you get VSS errors with no, or only one, bulb. In that case you will need to do what others have done to cure a similar problem with front turn signals. You will need to add a resister parallel to the bulb filament in order to decrease the resistance to ground that the ECM sees.

In essence you have been barking up the wrong tree. You have been focused on the Canbus aspect. You do not want to use Canbus bulbs. The tree you need look at is the high resistance to ground that is the nature of LED lights.

Don't bother to ask Lamont how to bypass nanny as you suggest above. It can't be done. If the high resistance to ground is causing the VSS errors what is happening is this. When the ECM sees a high resistance in the brake light it generates an error message that goes to the VSS. The VSS then displays that error. I can assure you the VSS does not monitor light circuits directly.

Let us know what you discover.

Took both OEM lights out completely. VSS and then Limp. Put only one in. Same. Put both in and all is well. My service manual states that “if one or both the brake lights or tail lights burn out, a VSS fault will be displayed, and the bike will enter limp-home mode.” I think that’s absolutely stupid for a burnt-out bulb. Anyway, what I ended up doing was leaving the factory bulbs in. Lamonster referred me to Spyderpops for a complete LED kit for the back, so I ordered one. Should be here Monday. Thanks all, for your help!

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

All I can figure is the designers were so concerned about the hazard to the rider if a brake light is burned out they opted to make it so difficult to ride w/o working brake lights that a rider wouldn't do it. My judgment is BRP places such an extremely high level of importance to rider safety they almost make things unsafe.