Has anyone ELSE tried changing the rear signals to LEDs?

[Steve W.]

Along with adding a few other extra lights, I added this pair of LEDs from Amazon. I was encouraged by their claim of "Canbus Error Free". Note that these are NOT 1156A lights, the bayonet pins are offset at a different angle to match the Spyder sockets.

Now that they are installed, there is, in fact, a hyperflash issue. I have gone through the process (many times) that is given in this video by Lamonster. The hyperflash still exists. I got a pair of 6Ω resistors at Auto Zone that are supposed to correct this and installed them. Even after doing the reset procedure a few more times, it still hyperflashes after the third flash.

The lights themselves are GREAT. Unlike many other LED bulb conversions, they are bright and fill the reflector area very nicely. I would like to keep them, but don't want the hyperflashing.

My next attempt will be to double-up on the resistors to see if TWO resistors on one side will help at all. Oh, yeah, I'm installing them correctly between the turn signal wire and ground.

Any suggestions? :dontknow:

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[Navydad]

Steve, I went through the same mess when I installed LED turns in the rear of my 2015. I did the process many times and many ways. I think I even jumped up and down on one foot while swinging a dead chicken counter clockwise at midnight. No joy. I just said heck with it and let em hyper flash then all of a sudden on a ride they started working like they should. I have no explanation other than the computer finally recognized and corrected the issue. Not much help I know, but just my experience.

 

[Steve W.]

Well, that's sorta encouraging.
And I was hoping to get another 86 miles on the odometer to round out the year at 10,000.
Might be a warm-ish day coming up in the next week and a half. :dontknow:

I'm going to try doubling-up on the resistors tomorrow night, then I'll put it together and go for a ride. :thumbup:

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[IdahoMtnSpyder]

My next attempt will be to double-up on the resistors to see if TWO resistors on one side will help at all. Oh, yeah, I'm installing them correctly between the turn signal wire and ground.

Any suggestions? :dontknow:

.

I think the 6 Ω resistor is drawing too much current from the cluster. From what I calculate based on the OEM bulb being 10 watts, you need around 12 to 24 Ω parallel to the new LED bulbs to get near the same amp draw on the cluster as what the OEM bulbs draw. So connect the new resistors in series with the one you have. You might take the resistor from one side and connect it to the other side and see if that fixes it. If it does then buy the additional resistors.

 

[Steve W.]

Thanks, IMS. :thumbup:

10 watts??? The usual bulb on most other vehicles is an 1156 or 1157 (or other variants), which are 27-32 watts. I know it's dangerous, but I assumed the 7507 would be similar. :dontknow:

When I get home this afternoon, I will measure the resistance of the bulbs. Then I will try the resistors in series AND in parallel, then update this thread. Then, if it hasn't started raining, I'll go for at least a short ride, as Navydad suggests.

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[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Thanks, IMS. :thumbup:

10 watts??? The usual bulb on most other vehicles is an 1156 or 1157 (or other variants), which are 27-32 watts. I know it's dangerous, but I assumed the 7507 would be similar. :dontknow:

When I get home this afternoon, I will measure the resistance of the bulbs. Then I will try the resistors in series AND in parallel, then update this thread. Then, if it hasn't started raining, I'll go for at least a short ride, as Navydad suggests.

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The specification list in the owners manual for my 2014 RT lists the rear turn signal bulbs as 10 watt. That's what I'm going by.

 

[Steve W.]

Well then, it's no wonder they can't be seen. :dontknow:

I'll be checking them when I get home in a few hours. Don't have to be back to work until next Monday, so there's plenty of time. :thumbup:

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[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Thanks, IMS. :thumbup:

10 watts??? The usual bulb on most other vehicles is an 1156 or 1157 (or other variants), which are 27-32 watts. I know it's dangerous, but I assumed the 7507 would be similar. :dontknow:

When I get home this afternoon, I will measure the resistance of the bulbs. Then I will try the resistors in series AND in parallel, then update this thread. Then, if it hasn't started raining, I'll go for at least a short ride, as Navydad suggests.

.

You need to measure the resistance indirectly, i.e., volts and amps across the bulb. An incandescent bulb filament resistance increases as it heats up. Measuring it cold won't be accurate. The rate of the rise and fall of the current flow through an LED is much steeper than with an incandescent filament. How much this might affect the cluster electronics I have no idea. It might play into what the parallel resistor value needs to be. I added LED turn signal lights in parallel with the OEM signal lights and have no problem with flash rate.

 

[Steve W.]

I added LED turn signal lights in parallel with the OEM signal lights and have no problem with flash rate.

I added the TricLED setup on the rear that has the red/yellow lights on the saddlebags and had no problems, but when I added the sequential signals on the front fenders, I had to reset the flash rate. Now, I am replacing the rear signal bulbs with LEDS. It is my understanding that those are the last incandescent bulbs on the bike.

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[DreamsSewn]

PS Don't forget your sister what's whatever her sister-in-law might be getting.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I added the TricLED setup on the rear that has the red/yellow lights on the saddlebags and had no problems, but when I added the sequential signals on the front fenders, I had to reset the flash rate. Now, I am replacing the rear signal bulbs with LEDS. It is my understanding that those are the last incandescent bulbs on the bike.

Backup light and license plate are incandescent, as well at the big ones, the headlights! And the OEM frunk light also. At least that's what I get from the 2017 Operators Guide. You must have just exceeded the amperage setting in the cluster with the sequential ones. They must draw a little more than fixed LED lights. I forgot to mention above that I added LED strip lights on the mirrors for turn signals. IIRC, those didn't trigger hyperflashing either. By maybe they did and I've forgotten.

 

[Steve W.]

Backup light and license plate are incandescent, as well at the big ones, the headlights! And the OEM frunk light also.

1. Backup lights have already been replaced with LEDs.
2. License light is GONE. Sort of. The stock light is gone, because I installed an LED frame from Signal Dynamics. (More on that in a bit.)
3. Headlights have been changed to LED, via Lamonster kit.
3a. Fog lights have been changed to LED, via Lamonster kit.
4. I think the frunk light is an LED, but it is so pitiful, I had to use a candle to find it. pps:
It has been replaced by a truck bed light that does the job quite well. :thumbup:
I wired the new light to the stock switch, so there is nothing extra to turn it on, just open the frunk.

Signal Dynamics (SD) offers a selection of license frames with LEDs. I have one on my Suzuki that I got 10 years ago at Americade in New York. It has red LEDs along the top and bottom, and it has yellow LEDs on each side. All of the LEDs are dual-intensity, but I have the yellow ones set to only use the bright setting for turn signals. I did not see anything like that in their current catalog, so I contacted SD to see if they might have a left-over unit hiding in a corner of the basement. "Mike" at SD responded and said he would have someone look. About a week later, he replied that they had found a quad frame and would be happy to populate it with the arrays that I wanted. After quickly giving him payment and shipping information, it only took a couple of days before it arrived.

Experience with the frame on my Suzuki told me that the LEDs are a bit directional, and the angle of the license plate on the Spyder points them a bit high, so they are not as readily seen by following traffic. That meant that I needed to get creative and make an offset mount to make the plate more vertical. As usual, any solution creates more problems. This time, the plate and frame were blocking the light, so I got some LED lights that are also mounting bolts to illuminate the plate. Now I have a LOT of wires in the area of the license plate. To avoid drilling a hole, I simply removed the stock light and ran my wires through that hole.

Short story long, all that is to explain that the rear signals were, indeed, the last incandescent bulbs. :dontknow:

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[Steve W.]

PS Don't forget your sister what's whatever her sister-in-law might be getting.

Yes, I know my sister wants whatever her sister-in-law is getting. :shocked:

I also know that my sister is willing to let me practice on her sister-in-law's bike. :hun:

And yes, dear sister (she really is my sister :thumbup, you will be getting some of it when you come here. I will say right now, though, that some of the stuff I installed, I don't ever want to attempt again. At least not the way that I did it the first time.

Here is a list, starting with stuff you saw at Maggie Valley:
- LED headlights
- LED fog lights
- TricLED sequential signals on fenders
- yellow LEDs in dash to monitor turn signals
- LED backup lights
- TricLED 4-piece tail/brake/turn kit for saddlebags and trunk


Added in the last couple of weeks (all are LED):
- frunk light that actually lights it up, activated by stock switch
- light in the glove box, activated by tilt switch
-.light strip in each saddlebag, activated by magnetic reed switch in doors
- light strip in trunk, activated by tilt switch
- tail/brake/turn light at top of trunk
- tail/brake/turn lights on license frame
- rear turn signals (hope to fix the hyperflash, which is the reason for this thread)
- lights replacing reflectors on saddlebags
There is also a Signal Dynamics brake modulator on the trunk light and license frame lights, but none of the others.

See you some time in the Spring?

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[Steve W.]

You need to measure the resistance indirectly, i.e., volts and amps across the bulb. An incandescent bulb filament resistance increases as it heats up.

Finally! Time to get back to bulb specs. :thumbup:

The stock bulb that came out measured (directly) 0.6Ω, hinting at about 2 amps and 25 watts. My amp meter showed 1.79 amps, my power supply puts out 13.8 volts (nicely-regulated), which calculates to 24.7 watts. Then I looked at the bulb. Engraved on the side of the base it says 12v, 21W. :dontknow:

I tried the two resistors in series. Did the reset procedure, no change in results. Moved some wires around to put the two resistors in parallel, the bike did not like that at all. Started hyperflashing right away, instead of waiting for the third (or fourth) flash.

I went back to one resistor on each side (properly wired in parallel) and put everything back together. It's ready for a test ride. It's warm (50°), but it's raining. Saturday will start out a bit chilly (17°), might get up to riding temp (35-ish°) by noon, so we'll see what happens.

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[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Finally! Time to get back to bulb specs. :thumbup:

The stock bulb that came out measured (directly) 0.6Ω, hinting at about 2 amps and 25 watts. My amp meter showed 1.79 amps, my power supply puts out 13.8 volts (nicely-regulated), which calculates to 24.7 watts. Then I looked at the bulb. Engraved on the side of the base it says 12v, 21W. :dontknow:

I tried the two resistors in series. Did the reset procedure, no change in results. Moved some wires around to put the two resistors in parallel, the bike did not like that at all. Started hyperflashing right away, instead of waiting for the third (or fourth) flash.

I went back to one resistor on each side (properly wired in parallel) and put everything back together. It's ready for a test ride. It's warm (50°), but it's raining. Saturday will start out a bit chilly (17°), might get up to riding temp (35-ish°) by noon, so we'll see what happens.

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I wondered about the bulb wattage after I looked it up in the 2017 Operator's Guide, which lists it at 21 watts. Obviously my 2014 Guide is wrong. That's not the first time for BRP!

Your experience with hyperflashing does make me wonder even more if current flow characteristic of the LED vs the incandescent contributes to it. I wonder what a capacitor in parallel with the LED would do. See what happens if you take the LED bulb out and have only the resistors in the circuit. And maybe try the resistors in parallel with the incandescent bulb. What we need to figure out is what the parameters are that control the flashing rate of the cluster. Is it current load, current flow rate, or what? I think, but I could be wrong, that most everyone who has dealt with this and corrected with resistors had the stock rear turn signal bulbs in place. You're the first one who I can remember has tried changing the rear bulbs to LED.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I wonder if the CANbus compatible feature is the problem. The light circuits on the Spyder are not in the CANbus system. The CANbus is used only for communications among all the modules. With a bike like the BMW CANbus signals actually control the bulbs. CANbus bulbs may not be compatible with the Spyder cluster.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

This just may be your answer. From this web page: https://shop.brosintl.com/blogs/new...eplacing-your-halogen-or-hid-bulb-to-led-bulb

Can I use CAN Bus LED bulbs in non-CAN Bus applications?

CAN Bus LED bulbs SHOULD NOT be used in non-CAN Bus applications because in most cases they can cause other vehicle circuits to have problems. A CAN Bus LED bulb presents more resistance than the original bulb due to built-in resistors and may cause feedback into other circuits in the non-CAN Bus electrical system.

 

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

Same comment on this page: https://www.superbrightleds.com/blog/can-bus-led-bulbs/293/

 

[Steve W.]

You're the first one who I can remember has tried changing the rear bulbs to LED.

Looking back at post #2, Navydad said he installed LEDs.

See what happens if you take the LED bulb out and have only the resistors in the circuit. And maybe try the resistors in parallel with the incandescent bulb.

Nope. Not gonna happen. To remove the LEDs requires blowing apart the back half of the bike to gain access to the bulbs. The resistors are installed at the front, behind the headlights. To gain access to them requires blowing apart the front half of the bike. All the panels are on, they are not coming off again until NECESSARY.

I wonder if the CANbus compatible feature is the problem. The light circuits on the Spyder are not in the CANbus system. The CANbus is used only for communications among all the modules. With a bike like the BMW CANbus signals actually control the bulbs. CANbus bulbs may not be compatible with the Spyder cluster.

I am new to anything "CANbus", so I don't know exactly how things work with it, but I am not ignorant of things that carry and control the flow of electrons. It is my impression that, if a CANbus bulb has extra resistors to add to the load (which would simulate an incandescent load), it shouldn't matter if it's in a CANbus system or not. I could be wrong. Again.

Weather should be a bit better in a couple of days, I'll take it for a ride and see what happens, as Navydad suggests.

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[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I am new to anything "CANbus", so I don't know exactly how things work with it, but I am not ignorant of things that carry and control the flow of electrons. It is my impression that, if a CANbus bulb has extra resistors to add to the load (which would simulate an incandescent load), it shouldn't matter if it's in a CANbus system or not. I could be wrong. Again.

If the turn signals got their power from the battery through a flasher there would be no issue. But the turn signal bulbs are powered by the cluster which, of course, is an electronic module. Something in the cluster is being upset by the LEDs, be it the total current load or the waveform of the power during the on/off state changes. According to the site I link to above the CANbus bulbs should present nearly the same load to the cluster that the incandescent bulbs do. Since you said in the OP you got hyperflashing with just the bulbs that indicates that current draw is not the only factor involved.

Besides added resistors I think there might be a microprocessor in the bulb. From what I find, bikes like BMW send power and signals over the same pair of wires to the light bulb to turn it off and on with the bulb responding with some sort of message. I don't know if it has any bearing or not, but an LED household bulb does not always work with a motion detector switch or light dimmer. This indicates two electronic devices in series don't always get along with each other if they aren't made to do so.

Maybe you'll be fortunate like Navydad and the cluster eventually fixes itself. BRP and Bosch being what they are I wouldn't bet on the turn signal circuitry conforming to CANbus standards even though its communication with other modules does.