QuasiMotard
New member
Good afternoon, all! I had a conference call with the BRP engineers about the Ryker platform earlier this month (2019-02-08). We had a very good discussion and we had follow-up items that I sent in an email to get further information or clarification. The response email came back yesterday afternoon, so I will present a sanitized version (reversed the chronology, removed names and email addresses) here for everyone to review... skip to the bottom for the original list of questions.
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QM
From: BRP
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2019 12:17 PM
To: QuasiMotard
Subject: ryker
Hi QuasiMotard,
I was made aware that you seem to be having some issues with your new Ryker? Looking at a technical case for your unit in our system, I took the liberty to talk to your dealership and they gave me a little more information. I am now thinking that we could have a talk you and I. Would that be something that you would appreciate?
To make this happen, I would need your daytime availabilities and also for to you confirm that I can call you at this number: xxx-xxx-xxxx. Please note that time zone wise, I am on eastern time, 1 hour ahead of you.
I will be waiting for your response.
Have a great day!
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From: QuasiMotard
Sent: Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 1:30 PM
To: BRP
Subject: RE: ryker
Good afternoon! Thank you for returning my request/complaint! I am more than willing and ready to have someone from BRP to speak with! I am available almost any time by cell phone (listed below), or by email. You can reach me any day from 06:00 to 23:00 CDT (US/Central timezone).
I LOVE the Ryker and I want it to succeed, both for myself and for other users. My unit has some definite issues that need to be addressed, both mechanically and in dealer setup/prep that was improper. I have been chronicling the issues on YouTube as a hobby… the response has been overwhelming from the community (both positive and negative).
I look forward to your call or correspondence!
Thank you,
QuasiMotard
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From: BRP
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 7:58 AM
To: QuasiMotard
Subject: Re: ryker
Call is confirmed at 1pm your time today.
On Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 8:11 AM BRP wrote:
Hi QuasiMotard, just waiting confirmation from the Ryker/Spyder product specialist, but for now I have scheduled the call for today, 1pm, your time.
I'll keep you posted.
Thank you!
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From: QuasiMotard
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2019 8:36 AM
To: BRP
Subject: RE: ryker
Great! I will be ready with a few questions. Thanks again for arranging the call, and I look forward to speaking with your team!
Thank you,
QuasiMotard
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From: QuasiMotard
Sent: Fri, Feb 8, 2019 at 4:01 PM
To: BRP
Good afternoon! Thank you for your time this afternoon. This is a list of the issues that I wanted to discuss. Most of them were touched upon in today’s meeting, and others are suggestions on BRP-to-consumer interactions. Let me know if you have any questions or concerns and I will be happy to discuss them and work with you.
Observed mechanical issues with Ryker:
[LIST OF ISSUES FOLLOWS WITH BRP'S INLINE RESPONSES BELOW...]
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From: BRP
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2019 7:20 AM
To: QuasiMotard
Subject: Re: ryker
Thank you for the follow-up QuasiMotard, adding xxxx in cc so that he can reply to you directly.
Have a great week!
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From: QuasiMotard
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2019 7:23 AM
To: BRP
Subject: RE: ryker
Great! Thanks again for reaching out to me. I will be sure to let everyone in the community (e.g. forums and YouTube viewers) know that you (BRP) is engaged and addressing the issues/concerns!
Thank you,
QuasiMotard
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From: QuasiMotard
Sent: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 at 16:36
To: BRP
Subject: RE: ryker
Good afternoon! I am just checking back with you about our conversation several days ago to see if you have had any time to review the questions that I listed below. Also, there are some new developments through my YouTube channel about owner issues that have arisen in the past few days.
I dropped off my Ryker at Wild West Motoplex this morning to have them install the new BRP swaybar accessory. When I arrived, another Ryker owner (YouTube viewer) sent me a message about a problem they had with the indicator light wiring harness being chafed/damaged by the tire on their Ryker. Their dealer is remediating the issue already.
I asked my dealer to check my Ryker, and they found the same routing and clearance issue. My harness hasn't been damaged yet, but they recommended a modification to prevent it from contacting the tire. They drilled a small hole in the underside supports and then zip-tied the harness to the plastic to give extra clearance (see the attached photo).
Many owners (and prospective buyers) are contacting me to know if BRP is aware of some of these issues. I am happy to act as a liaison, as long as this doesn't cause a problem for BRP. Of course, I am recommending any owners with mechanical issues to contact their dealers and/or BRP directly.
Let me know if you have any questions or concerns.
Thank you,
QuasiMotard
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From: BRP
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2019 2:00 PM
To: QuasiMotard
Subject: Re: ryker
Good day QuasiMotard,
First I'd like to apologize for the response delay, I've many things going on right now including 2 bikes show that I attend. I can tell you that the Ryker hit a home run at these bike shows. People just love it!
Regarding the topics that you raise up, I did look at all of them and here is a resume;
1. Loud mechanical clunk when engaging forward or reverse (reverse is particularly nasty). An example is visible/audible in this YouTube clip:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDRlsJehqNs&t=745s
The clutch system has been designed specifically for the Ryker and this noise is totally normal and can be heard on all Rykers. Note that this engagement noise won’t affect powertrain components life.
2. Mechanical clunk from rear end/final drive on every acceleration event (even over bumps), particularly loud under hard acceleration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDRlsJehqNs&t=589s (9:49) , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDRlsJehqNs&t=784s (13:04)
This noise can be heard on other Rykers as well.
3. Driveline groan (gear lash/gnash) on deceleration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDRlsJehqNs&t=385s (6:25)
Again, this noise can be heard on all Rykers due to gear teeth pattern combined with compression load from the drivetrain. That behavior won’t affect gearbox’s life.
4. Tail-wag during deceleration and/or braking, no input on handlebars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBTc_61bwgM&t=1260s (21:00) ,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBTc_61bwgM&t=1407s (23:27)
Not sure to understand that one
5. Alignment issues are evident through out the operating range, but particularly annoying above 35 MPH. There are examples throughout my ride videos, but a static coast-down (hands-off) test is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDRlsJehqNs&t=980s (16:20); high-speed stability is very erratic, watch the 3-minute segment of the following video from 13:30-16:30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDRlsJehqNs&t=810s
We have to be careful here. Driving a 3 wheels vehicle can be slightly different than a 2 wheels motorcycle. A 2 wheels bike always use the same driving line (wheels aligned on the same driving surface). The 3 wheels are individually on 3 differents surface and can give the effect of a bad alignment if the surfaces are uneven. I would compare with another 3 wheels unit to confirm this behavior.
6. Are alignment verifications done at factory? Does the dealer have the ability/responsibility to verify during PDI?
All Rykers are laser aligned on the production line. It is not part of the PDI to re-align the units. BRP design a service alignment laser tool that is available to all BRP dealers. Though this is not a mandatory tool, so it is possible that BRP dealers are using aftermarket alignment tools like Rolo or they can simply send it to an alignment shop that has their own tooling.
7. Dealer education and sales procedures for advising customers of new/updated documentation (e.g. Operator's Manual)
As mentioned in the owners guide, the electronic version can be found at:
http://www.operatorsguides.brp.com which included all latest modification if there are any.
8. Missing toolkit (mentioned in Operator's Manual, but not included with bike)
The only tool provided with the Ryker is a flat screwdriver.
9. Other markets have emergency flashers standard; will there be an option for US models?
This is not an option (short term unless we have many request). Though, Russia’s standards required hazard kit # 219400932 that we might keep few kits available for the other Countries that would like to have it. I’ll check if that is possible.
10. BRP needs better method of contacting owners with news of updates/revisions to owners manuals and manufacturer recalls (dealers aren't updating/advising the owners) properly. Social media, email lists, or other real-time communication would be preferred. The Ryker is marketed toward a younger riding audience, and that audience is a "NOW" generation that is accustomed to instant gratification and immediate updates via social media. My printed Operator’s Manual has numerous errors/omissions, as did the version that I downloaded on 1/19/2019. I see that BRP has released an updated manual recently that includes these omitted diagrams and procedures (e.g. gearbox oil check, final drive check, etc). How does BRP advise the owner/operator about these updates?
The Online version is always the updated version since it is very easy to maintain. The customers can refer to it when needed. This is true for other products, as an example, I personnaly own a Ford Flex and Ford never sent an updated owner’s guide or never sent me an email saying that a revised version was available.
For the recalls, BRP send mail letter to the owners when safety recalls affect their units. For the other bulletins, the dealers are the ones that manage it.
BRP has a dedicated team that monitor the Social media and interacts when needed.
11. Dealers aren't being advised/educated on some procedures; for example, the service manager at Mancuso South (Shanon) didn't know the proper procedure for performing the 2019-2 gearbox oil recall... he told me that the check was at the bottom of the threads for the FILL PLUG, not the check plug! I had to show him the documentation error in the Operator's Manual, and then follow-up with the pictures from the 2019-2 bulletin. He was very surprised.
BRP does communicate to our dealer network through different chanel like BOSSWeb and the community when bulletins are published or revised. Now, some dealers are quicker than others to read the available documentation.
12. Unusual squeaking during break-in period, presumably from CVT belt, only audible at engine idle (sitting still); the noise has disappeared after ~130 miles.
This noise is totally normal on all units driven by a CVT system. The break-in period is different from each user due to their riding habits.
13. The Operator's manual should make note of noises and peculiarities of the mechanicals if these behaviors are "normal" (e.g. driveline clunk when engaging forward/reverse, acceleration clunk in final drive, CVT belt squeaking, etc).
This is not the objective of an owner’s guide. That kind of information can leads to different misinterpretation depending of the customers mechanical knowledge. The dealers are there to address that type of concerns.
14. Email or social media notifications for Ryker owners (e.g. recall notices, TSB's, documentation updates, etc). This is a newer generation that expects real-time information and instant gratification; dealers are slow to receive and disseminate issues to buyers/owners). I have never received a call back from my dealer regarding any documentary updates or recalls for my unit.
This is different from one dealer to another. Many reason may affect their communication that I won’t go through the details here.
Feature requests and/or product improvements:
Hand brake option: Does BRP have any intention of creating/adding a hand brake option as dealer-installed (factory-authorized) accessory? I have read numerous queries about adding a front brake lever to the Ryker. Some prospective buyers need it as a riding aid because of physical difficulty. I would like to see it as an option because the brake lever is an industry-standard, so all experienced riders have motor-memory/reflex to reach for that lever. It is also statistically/scientifically faster to reach for the brake lever than to move your foot to the pedal. I'm sure that it would need to be inline with the existing brake system (e.g. in parallel to existing master cylinder, with proportioning valve, check valves, etc), so it's not a trivial task. However, this isn’t new… Honda has done this for years with their scooters under the CBS (combined-braking system) name.
Parking brake: Other Ryker markets have locking parking brake; will the US/NA versions have an option for lock kit on parking brake? High theft areas make the lack of a locking mechanism into a serious problem. There is nothing to prevent someone from releasing the brake and rolling the bike away. Motorcycles have a column lock, so it is more difficult to roll; the Ryker can be walked away without any real effort. (not good)
Locking fuel door and/or trunk: Does BRP have any intention of creating an optional lock kit for the trunk and/or fuel door (vandalism prevention, school/college campuses, high traffic parking areas)?
Lock for Max-Mount accessories: the tail bag and passenger seats are also a potential theft item if left unattended. Both are expensive accessories that have no security measure “baked-into” their design (no lock, locking bolt, or pin to secure them).
I brought your suggestions to the proper engineering development team, who knows you might see some ideas growing for the next MY.
Let me know if you have other questions, it will be a pleasure to help you out.
Cheers,
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From: QuasiMotard
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2019 2:14 PM
To: BRP
Subject: RE: ryker
Great, thank you for the response. I will review this info and reply back if I have any other questions.
As for the alignment issues on my Ryker, I have ridden other Can-Am Spyder RT’s and F3’s that did not exhibit this behavior. I was able to ride another Ryker 900 recently, and it does not wander as badly as mine does; it had more “play” than the F3/RT, but not nearly as bad as my Ryker Rally. I am waiting for my dealer or other local shops to receive their alignment kits in order to diagnose/adjust my Ryker. I will update you with the specs and tolerances of my unit when that is completed.
Thank you,
QuasiMotard
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QM
