What's the possibility of mounting up a side car to my F3-T .. Anyone ever done it?

[fatenhappy]

And no, you are reading this correctly .... What's the possiblity of mounting up a side-car to my F3-T ... Anyone ever done it?

I'm a 66 year old lower left leg amputee .... love riding, always have. February just gone this year, I splashed out and bought my latest ride, a 2017 F3-T in the SE6 variant ... so all paddle shift auto - fantastic.

My wife has had MS for the passed 35 plus years.... (and in any case, being an ex nurse she is far from partial to motorcycles at all at any time ... In her words .... she has seen first hand all the damage that can come from them) .. Despite this I have always quietly tried to coherse, poke and and gently 'push' her towards relaxing and join me on any of the bikes over the years, but always to no avail.

Taking this into account I've still always had it in the back of my mind to some how, totally include Cathy as much as possible with this current ride as well. I was 99% sure when buying 'any' traditional bike, the pillion set up even physically for her could not work.

My quandry also right now is Cathy's MS is to the stage where she cannot self support very well and is extremely tentatively of taking more than just a couple of steps at all, unsupported.

So this has still been going over and over in my mind and for no particular reason, even more so of late.

Then just the other day and again for no particular reason, I thought ... I wonder if it would be possible to mount up a side car to the new Spyder ... To me this would be the perfect solution ... Previously and to tell the absolute truth, I had not even vaguely given any side car option a thought. I guess you just very rarely see them about, if at all these days.

Leading up to this revelation I now have Cathy to the stage where she would be keen to come along (so she now says) if I can find a way. To me the side car thought would be fantastic as all I need her to do would be sit in there and let the day go past and 'enjoy the ride'

Anyone had any experience with this type of 'adaption' for the Spyder ... Cheers and thanks in advance

Just a heads up with a quick edit ... I had also posted this same thread in the how to do it yourself section also looking for alternate comments from there. It appears I am not allowed to comment on more than one of the same thread .. fare enough ... also as an aside we are not allow to tow folks in a trailer in Australia end of story .. cheers and thanks again for your inputs ...

 

[fatenhappy]

I am taking this so seriously that here are a couple of bits and pieces that say to me ... here in Australia 'the side car project' could very well be a goer .... and definitely doable ....

So I went through the workshop manual 'Chassis' area as well as had a good squiz on the net ..

IMO so far, plenty of chassis to work with and the 'proposed approximate scale dimensions also say the same ...

The maximum width for a registerable vehicle here in Queensland Australia is 2440mm or 8 feet in the old money ...

My initial current calculations put my proposal at really close to 2170mm in width .... The stock length of the F3-T is 2596 mm or 8.83ft (again in the old money) ...

I am also attaching a few of my references ...

All input yea or na as long as constructive appreciated !

 

[Philrs]

Happy.

Sorry I can't help here. But I wish you the best of luck with this and am looking forward to following your thread.

Please update as you progress if you can


Phil
Bkfld ca.

 

[Chupaca]

Awesome...!!

Looks like you are close to making this happen for your lovely wife. Would love to see you both out there..:riding: keep us up to date on your progress. :thumbup:

 

[sylvester]

side car

I would also check and see if it will change the auto adjust on the suspension i would also say your tire ware will change some but i think it could work i would check with BRP for warranty and frame issues. Good luck and let us know how it works out

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

SPYDER PLKUS SIDECAR = DISASTER

:yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes: .......... I think so Far out of the box I'm probably not even on the planet most of the time ( visit my Albums, especially the 917 project car ) ... but this idea is a real nightmare .... It took the BRP ( + others ) years to work the bugs out of the Spyder frame & suspension alone and you think adding a sidecar is doable .....I'm a die-hard DIY'er ( 80 plus mods to me 14 RT ).... I really wish you all the best and pray for your's and the Mrs. safety ....... jmho .... Mike :thumbup:

 

[SPYD3R]

VESPA

heck, if they can come up with a SIDE-CAR for my little VESPA, why not for your SPYD3R as well.....

best of luck with this project.... wish i could help...
Dan P
SPYD3R

 

[pegasus1300]

If you throw enough time and money at anything you can make it happen. I like your rendering in your second post, It looks more doable then I would have thought. Question, have you thought of making the sidecar wheel steerable?

You might also consider using an F3 without the left side saddlebag. That way you could get it a little narrower. If you could get the track of the left wheel and the car wheel closer to the same it might help with steering. Don't really know anything,just speculating.

 

[ARtraveler]

If you can do it, and make the electronics accept the additional inputs, it could be very interesting.

As I understand it, sidecars put a lot of extra input into the package. When accelerating they cause the bike to want to turn in one direction, when decelerating, the opposite happens.

Then, when making turns, you are either going to "fly" the rig or have an outrigger depending on which side the car is.

Throw these into mix with the current electronics and you have a very interesting situation.

Very interested in seeing the outcome.

 

[ofdave]

Sidecar rigs involve much more than just sticking on a sidecar.
There are alignment considerations. The sidecar wheel is not lined with the rear wheel of the tug. It becomes a trike if it is. Lining it with the rear on a Spyder would make it car-like. Not saying that's bad. We who comment do not know.
Given two wheels in front to start with on a Spyder, the yawing during acceleration and deceleration will likely not be an issue.
There is a very active sidecar forum at advriders. It may be worth asking this question there to get answers based more on experience than conjecture. Or contact one of the sidecar manufacturers like Claude at Freedom Sidecars. He's active on that forum and very knowledgeable.

 

[fatenhappy]

I would also check and see if it will change the auto adjust on the suspension i would also say your tire ware will change some but i think it could work i would check with BRP for warranty and frame issues. Good luck and let us know how it works out

Thanks Sylvester ... (Tongue in cheek as we say over here) I am willing to sweep the warranty issues under the carpet to get this up and going ... The more I become engaged with this the more I am convinced it will work ...

As added incentive I remembered today from just doing the initial rego a couple of months back here in Queensland (Qld) Aust., there is also a whopping difference for our yearly registration costing of $200 per year as to whether I register the Spyder as pillion carrying capable or solo ... Then again it struck me ...

There is nothing stopping me from making changes to the F3 in the mean time. However, if I register it as a solo from next year, I obviously have to remove everything pillion and in doing so in the mean time. I then have a perfect place to link in one of the slave support arms ....

Choo choo here we come ... :yes::doorag: :joke: :bowdown:

 

[fatenhappy]

Sidecar rigs involve much more than just sticking on a sidecar.
There are alignment considerations. The sidecar wheel is not lined with the rear wheel of the tug. It becomes a trike if it is. Lining it with the rear on a Spyder would make it car-like. Not saying that's bad. We who comment do not know.
Given two wheels in front to start with on a Spyder, the yawing during acceleration and deceleration will likely not be an issue.
There is a very active sidecar forum at advriders. It may be worth asking this question there to get answers based more on experience than conjecture. Or contact one of the sidecar manufacturers like Claude at Freedom Sidecars. He's active on that forum and very knowledgeable.

Thanks and I agree with what you are saying re the Yaw effects etc ...

I am already all over this and no I will not just be 'strapping on' a side car ... My history is from an engineering background so yep ... totally agree thanks again ..

 

[fatenhappy]

If you throw enough time and money at anything you can make it happen. I like your rendering in your second post, It looks more doable then I would have thought. Question, have you thought of making the sidecar wheel steerable?

You might also consider using an F3 without the left side saddlebag. That way you could get it a little narrower. If you could get the track of the left wheel and the car wheel closer to the same it might help with steering. Don't really know anything,just speculating.

Apparently it is true then, 'great minds do think alike' .... Almost from the moment of its conception, this is one thought I have been mulling over all along ..... This hasn't been so much to bring the side-car concept closer to the ride, but from the point of when I go ahead ... how the hell would I be able to open that particular saddle bag / side case. The side cases do swing out a reasonable distance when opened. So much so I am already 'contemplating' adjusting the 'gutter' side rear of design of the side car's build to be able to attach / take this 'in-between' saddle bag and relocate it there accordingly ... I

'll have to also look way more closely at this, as I have less than a foot right now before I would exceed our maximum carriage way width allowance for a vehicle ... From a forward trajectory point of view, I also want to stay away from the dynamics of making the new ride wider than it is in length, as there can be avoidable consequences of doing this.

 

[fatenhappy]

:yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes: .......... I think so Far out of the box I'm probably not even on the planet most of the time ( visit my Albums, especially the 917 project car ) ... but this idea is a real nightmare .... It took the BRP ( + others ) years to work the bugs out of the Spyder frame & suspension alone and you think adding a sidecar is doable .....I'm a die-hard DIY'er ( 80 plus mods to me 14 RT ).... I really wish you all the best and pray for your's and the Mrs. safety ....... jmho .... Mike :thumbup:

There is no way in hell I will sit my little lovely in this if I ever though I was creating a disaster just waiting to happen ... Besides I'm not too proud to say I love my God and if that's his wish, then who am I too argue ! I ask for his guidance everyday and forever been up to my thoughts with safety within the Aviation industry. I see no reason why anything will change now. In that field everything had to be signed and counter over-signed for ... Amen brother !

 

[fatenhappy]

If you can do it, and make the electronics accept the additional inputs, it could be very interesting.

As I understand it, sidecars put a lot of extra input into the package. When accelerating they cause the bike to want to turn in one direction, when decelerating, the opposite happens.

Then, when making turns, you are either going to "fly" the rig or have an outrigger depending on which side the car is.

Throw these into mix with the current electronics and you have a very interesting situation.

Very interested in seeing the outcome.

I really appreciate these thoughts but ...

To begin with there are no upright stability issues as there are on a traditionally fitted side car concept. Spyders are already set up to be ridden 100% upright just the same the same as an ATV or Quad bike (so no counter roll compensation will be required) ...There is no counter allowance necessary for the body.

There are no connected electronics except for lighting ..

If I wanted to be real flash I could build in an independent inertia braking system using gyros ... which is not that hard ..

When attaching a conventional side-car, yes there are necessary compensations for drag on acceleration and load when braking ... To counter this (as I will also have to do) the side-car's direction of forward motion has a slight in built 'tow in' compensation as part of the fit up process, which is a really attentive process, but simple thing to do.

Lastly ... 'Then, when making turns, you are either going to "fly" the rig or have an outrigger depending on which side the car is ... ' Totally agree .... so what makes that any different to exactly what is happening with the geometry of the front wheels on our Spyder set ups right now ? .... I would suggest absolutely nothing ...

All I can say is please, please keep these thoughts coming, because if I can find something I haven't anticipated I would be eternally grateful ..

 

[fatenhappy]

And no, you are reading this correctly .... What's the possiblity of mounting up a side-car to my F3-T ... Anyone ever done it?

I'm a 66 year old lower left leg amputee .... love riding, always have. February just gone this year, I splashed out and bought my latest ride, a 2017 F3-T in the SE6 variant ... so all paddle shift auto - fantastic.

My wife has had MS for the passed 35 plus years.... (and in any case, being an ex nurse she is far from partial to motorcycles at all at any time ... In her words .... she has seen first hand all the damage that can come from them) .. Despite this I have always quietly tried to coherse, poke and and gently 'push' her towards relaxing and join me on any of the bikes over the years, but always to no avail.

Taking this into account I've still always had it in the back of my mind to some how, totally include Cathy as much as possible with this current ride as well. I was 99% sure when buying 'any' traditional bike, the pillion set up even physically for her could not work.

My quandry also right now is Cathy's MS is to the stage where she cannot self support very well and is extremely tentatively of taking more than just a couple of steps at all, unsupported.

So this has still been going over and over in my mind and for no particular reason, even more so of late.

Then just the other day and again for no particular reason, I thought ... I wonder if it would be possible to mount up a side car to the new Spyder ... To me this would be the perfect solution ... Previously and to tell the absolute truth, I had not even vaguely given any side car option a thought. I guess you just very rarely see them about, if at all these days.

Leading up to this revelation I now have Cathy to the stage where she would be keen to come along (so she now says) if I can find a way. To me the side car thought would be fantastic as all I need her to do would be sit in there and let the day go past and 'enjoy the ride'

Anyone had any experience with this type of 'adaption' for the Spyder ... Cheers and thanks in advance

I had sort of put this photo to the back of my mind from a little while ago when first starting to do the research on this ...

These are Keijis 2 trikes with side cars .... The one on the left is a H_D tri-glide 'Electra' and the one on the right .. well I'll leave that up you to try to figure out ...(colourful character) ... My point is ... Yep, this can be done ... probably an extension to that should be ... we can't let the H_D riders have all the glory ?

 

[blacklightning]

The 2 in the above post, both appear to be goldwing trikes, with a sidecar.
I wish I could suggest a way to make this happen for you, but I have no skills or expertise in this area. I truly hope you are able to make this week for you and your bride. I will be keeping up with this and wishing you both the very best.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Just mulling this over a little, & a couple of grey cells collided & went into auto gibber..... but maybe this might help your cogitation just a little. I've seen an RT down this way that had the entire LH Pannier removed basically cut off from the outside edge of the Pillion's LH handgrip assy, & a wheelchair rack affixed in place of that pannier.... and I reckon I've seen a pic of a similar RT that BRP had modified to install a motorised wheelchair lifter for a disabled Veteran. Bearing that in mind, I don't believe the F3-T's are really all that much different wrt their built in panniers, so maybe if you looked into taking the LH Pannier off in much the same way.... that should let you get the outfit tucked in closer to the thrust centreline by about 100-150mms or so, maybe even more, and thereby significantly reduce the drag & steering problems that fitting a chair would normally add. :dontknow: Just a thought at his stage, but still!

While I was thinking along those lines, pondering on the issues it could raise up front with steering etc, I thought that maybe if you use the rear-most front suspension frame mounting points (Upper? Lower? Both??) to secure a trailing link projecting out & back in order to locate the front end of your proposed outfits outrigger wheel, so you should be able to allow for enough 'adjustments' in the outrigger's wheel alignment (toe in/out etc) to help fix any tracking or steering issues. I alreadh discovered that it wasn't all that hard to 'convert' the OE frame end front suspension mounting points in order to make the front end a whole lot more 'fine-tunable' (snail screws & eccentric washers might be old hat, but hey, they work!) so I don't think the tracking & wheel alignment changes you'd need to sort would be too hard to overcome. Heck, make the outfits' outer skin or overall shape similar to just the LH half of the shape you've already drawn, tuck it right in close to where the LH pannier is (or was, if you remove it!) & you could very nearly slot most of the extra bulk in effectively behind the LH front wheel, with the outrigger wheel being the widest point of the whole lot but angled & suspended so that it doesn't add any significant drag or any significant tendency to 'fly' on hard LH turns.... it might add a little to your 'tightest turning circle' that way tho, but the extra inboard weight could make for 'rocket sled on rails' turns, & if you tie the chair suspension into the main bike's suspension with a supersized BajaRon Bar to transfer suspension compression, you might even get the same impact turning right too!! Get it right & there'd be no way you'd ever lift the inside front wheel again, whichever way you turn!! :2thumbs:

This could be verrrry innnnterrresting, and a whole lotta fun too!! :yes: hyea: :clap: But could we raise it 150mm & stick on a set of knobbly muddies or off road tires to get it out & hit the fire tracks?? :shocked:

 

[bscrive]

Will the laws in Australia allow you to have 4 wheels. It probably would not fall under the law for trailers, since it will carry a passenger. Something to check before you get too far into it.

 

[MercerLake]

3 Wheels to 4!!

I am taking this so seriously that here are a couple of bits and pieces that say to me ... here in Australia 'the side car project' could very well be a goer .... and definitely doable ....

So I went through the workshop manual 'Chassis' area as well as had a good squiz on the net ..

IMO so far, plenty of chassis to work with and the 'proposed approximate scale dimensions also say the same ...

The maximum width for a registerable vehicle here in Queensland Australia is 2440mm or 8 feet in the old money ...

My initial current calculations put my proposal at really close to 2170mm in width .... The stock length of the F3-T is 2596 mm or 8.83ft (again in the old money) ...

I am also attaching a few of my references ...

All input yea or na as long as constructive appreciated !

A little money, and a lot of love can accomplish anything!:clap::clap:I think if you remove the side case that would narrow the track and affect the steering less. You should be able to attach to the frame in several point with flexible couplings to reduce the effect of the side car on the ride. A ridged mounting would likely be very rough to ride for both of you. As MS progresses she may be in a wheelchair eventually so I'd consider a platform on the side car frame rather than just a saddle. You obviously are putting a lot of thought into this project along with love. I wish you well and please keep us posted. Some Mechanical Engineers with CAD experience may be able to help you also????:bowdown::bowdown: