OEM vs car tires on Spyder 2014+ RT; let's consolidate the advice in one place

[ChrisW]

I learned a couple of things at the NoCal rally this week. I spoke to the BRP rep about the Kenda rear tire wear issue and the problem of getting a dealer to put an non-Kenda tire on it. I'll summarize his comments;

1. BRP has no policy or contract language with dealers that would prevent a dealer from installing a non-Kenda tire on a Spyder. Any dealers who say so are mistaken or are using that as an excuse for their own reluctance to deal with the problem (incidentally, my dealer said 'no problem'; they just wanted me to sign a liability waiver)
2. BRP has no stake in Kenda, or agreement with Kenda that requires BRP to use Kenda tires on their machines.
3. The reason BRP uses Kenda is that when BRP was designing the Spyder, they wrote up unique specs for the tires and Kenda was the only tire manufacturer willing to make a special-use tire in such small quantities.
4. BRP's specs for the Spyder tires is based on collaboration with Bosch (without whose technology and partnership the Spyder would never have left the drawing board), which designs and provides components for the VSS and ABS systems.
5. He was not aware of the unusual rear tire wear pattern on the Kenda rear tires, which shortens its useful life, but surmises it is because of the BRP specs, not because Kenda doesn't know how to build a quality tire.
6. He is going to pass this concern along to engineering to see if something can be done about it; it's not good PR to have owners upset over rear tire wear and lack of cooperation from dealers.

He also told me something else that I thought interesting. Before going to work for BRP (he was one of those testing and tweaking the pre-production bikes), he worked in a similar capacity at Yamaha. Back in the '80s Yamaha experimented with a reverse trike but couldn't figure out how to make it stable on the road; several of their test riders were seriously hurt trying them out. Yamaha dropped the project, not because of lack of interest in the concept but because the technology at the time wasn't available (ABS and VSS). It was the partnership with Bosch that enabled BRP to overcome those stability issues; the Spyder would not have been possible without Bosch's technology.

One of the members of this forum (who is also one of the leaders of the SRA-Sacramento chapter which hosted the rally), chimed into the conversation I was having with the BRP guy and said that his understanding of the Kenda tires is that for the 2013-2014 model years there was a batch of tires later discovered to be defective in some way (maybe the rubber compound formula), resulting in the unusually short life of the Kendas. He thought perhaps newer tires don't have that problem, as he has over 15k miles on his Kenda rear tire (I think he has a 2016 F3).

Anyway, just to let you know that BRP is going to look into these issues and try to come up with a solution. Meanwhile, they have no concerns about us using non-Kenda tires. Just be aware that some tires may be too sticky or not sticky enough for the VSS to work properly. If so, the owner bears the risk.

Thanks for the info, we have a 2014 and I think we have the bad tires on the bike as the back is worn and the fronts are cupping. We need new tires very soon.

 

[kngfsh27]

This is a big reason why I got rid of my Spyder. Great machine, crappy tires.

 

[UtahPete]

This is a big reason why I got rid of my Spyder. Great machine, crappy tires.

How come you're still on the forum?

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

CLUELESS ABOUT TIRES

I'm so sick of these endless tire threads I'm going to take my tires off and run the Spyder on the rims. Damn people won't this insecurity ever end. Make

your own choice of tires. You can make a decision can't you. Not one person on here has a clue about tires including me. If you want more mileage buy car tires. If you want safety buy motorcycle tires. Don't let a few overly strong (and possibly wrong) opinions sway you. Nuff said! nojoke

Jack

Dear Jack , There are actually TWO Spyderlover Forum members who can dispute what you said about being CLUELESS , myself and Peter Aawen ( from Australia )............ :lecturef_smilie:.... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Peter Aawen]

Don't kid yourself Jack, Spyders with std rims can't actually EVER wear real 'motorcycle tires' - & that's especially the case if you are still running the OE Spec Kendas!!! :shocked:

Quite simply, the OE Kendas are NOT real 'motorcycle tires'; they aren't constructed like a motorcycle tire, they don't have motorcycle tire beads, they don't have motorcycle treads, and they are not designed to nor do they work like motorcycle tires!! Besides, you simply CANNOT safely fit ANY real 'motorcycle tire' onto any std Spyder rim anyway!! :lecturef_smilie: They might physically be able to be fitted, but the true 'motorcycle tire' bead profile is so significantly different to the Spyder rim which is designed to hold a car bead profile tire that taking your very first corner with a real motorcycle tire jammed onto the Spyder's car rim may well be your last!! :gaah:

That 'for special motorcycle use only' or whatever the stamp on the side of the OE Kendas may be is simply a made up & effectively meaningless label pulled out of someone's behind with no real validity apart from helping to con the suckers into thinking the Kendas are something special (when any vaguely competent tire tech can see at a glance that they aren't!) and to warn car owners NOT to put the Kendas onto their car because that would be MASSIVELY UNSAFE....

So your favourite mantra really should be "if you want more mileage, buy 'real' car tires. If you want safety, buy 'real' car tires". And don't let a few posters who are clearly unaware of the reality about these tires (and insist upon telling us all that they are "so sick of these endless tire threads" but never miss an opportunity to read them & then post up in them telling us that once again..... repeatedly!!) tell you that the OE Kendas are anything but cheaply produced poor quality car tires, cos THAT IS all that the OE Spec Kendas are!!' :shocked:

I'm just waiting for the first law-suit bringing BRP to task about trying to con people that the sub-par tires they insist upon fitting to our Spyders are anything but sub-par car tires.... it's not a matter of IF, it's more a matter of WHEN!! Hopefully, it won't bankrupt the company or force them to stop making Spyders, because apart from the crappy Kenda CAR tires that are clearly NOT true 'Motorcycle Tires', our Spyders are actually pretty fantastic machines! :dontknow:

 

[WA5VHU]

This is a big reason why I got rid of my Spyder. Great machine, crappy tires.

Well that's a stooooopid reason then. Why didn't you just put some real tires on your Spyder and keep riding? Troll.

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

CRAPENDA TIRES - AND THOSE WHO LOVE THEM

Don't kid yourself Jack, Spyders with std rims can't actually EVER wear real 'motorcycle tires' - & that's especially the case if you are still running the OE Spec Kendas!!! :shocked:

Quite simply, the OE Kendas are NOT real 'motorcycle tires'; they aren't constructed like a motorcycle tire, they don't have motorcycle tire beads, they don't have motorcycle treads, and they are not designed to nor do they work like motorcycle tires!! Besides, you simply CANNOT safely fit ANY real 'motorcycle tire' onto any std Spyder rim anyway!! :lecturef_smilie: They might physically be able to be fitted, but the true 'motorcycle tire' bead profile is so significantly different to the Spyder rim which is designed to hold a car bead profile tire that taking your very first corner with a real motorcycle tire jammed onto the Spyder's car rim may well be your last!! :gaah:

That 'for special motorcycle use only' or whatever the stamp on the side of the OE Kendas may be is simply a made up & effectively meaningless label pulled out of someone's behind with no real validity apart from helping to con the suckers into thinking the Kendas are something special (when any vaguely competent tire tech can see at a glance that they aren't!) and to warn car owners NOT to put the Kendas onto their car because that would be MASSIVELY UNSAFE....

So your favourite mantra really should be "if you want more mileage, buy 'real' car tires. If you want safety, buy 'real' car tires". And don't let a few posters who are clearly unaware of the reality about these tires (and insist upon telling us all that they are "so sick of these endless tire threads" but never miss an opportunity to read them & then post up in them telling us that once again..... repeatedly!!) tell you that the OE Kendas are anything but cheaply produced poor quality car tires, cos THAT IS all that the OE Spec Kendas are!!' :shocked:

I'm just waiting for the first law-suit bringing BRP to task about trying to con people that the sub-par tires they insist upon fitting to our Spyders are anything but sub-par car tires.... it's not a matter of IF, it's more a matter of WHEN!! Hopefully, it won't bankrupt the company or force them to stop making Spyders, because apart from the crappy Kenda CAR tires that are clearly NOT true 'Motorcycle Tires', our Spyders are actually pretty fantastic machines! :dontknow:

Well said Peter , well said :clap::clap:..... Unfortunately there is an old adage " you can lead a horse to water , but you can't make them drink it ". Some people can grasp LOGIC, but others cannot, no matter how good your information is....... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Buckeye Bleau]

Bob, I think half of the posts are from people who want to join in but don't know what to say or what subject to use so they use tires! I always use the OEM or what the manufacturer recommends. As you know I

have a lot of toys and this philosophy as not led me astray yet. ( 100,000,000 + miles to prove it )

Jack

Well, Jack, I usually enjoy your additions to the forums, but on this you are out of line.

I do not know about others, but I read these posts for entertainment of sorts, mostly for fun and some for education. You seem to think that once YOU offer YOUR OPINION, then the conversation is over and complete. You know what, YOUR opinion is worth no more or less than anyone else's opinion. Further more, you state that half the people here...

Well, you know what, over half are offering what they see as advice from experience and another half are looking for wisdom from others like yourself. Just because you decide to contribute and I for one am glad that you do, does not mean that you have the only opinion of worth.

Finally, yes there is a mantra out there that states, "He who dies with the most toys wins!" and we all know that you have the most toys, we have been reminded many times. Well, I also know what my Pastor has stated many times, "I have never seen a U-Haul at a funeral!" So it is all for moot, but I have written in my Upon Death instructions, that someone will bring a U-Haul to my funeral. :yes:

Joe

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

RUDE COMMENTS

Well, Jack, I usually enjoy your additions to the forums, but on this you are out of line.

I do not know about others, but I read these posts for entertainment of sorts, mostly for fun and some for education. You seem to think that once YOU offer YOUR OPINION, then the conversation is over and complete. You know what, YOUR opinion is worth no more or less than anyone else's opinion. Further more, you state that half the people here...

Well, you know what, over half are offering what they see as advice from experience and another half are looking for wisdom from others like yourself. Just because you decide to contribute and I for one am glad that you do, does not mean that you have the only opinion of worth.

Finally, yes there is a mantra out there that states, "He who dies with the most toys wins!" and we all know that you have the most toys, we have been reminded many times. Well, I also know what my Pastor has stated many times, "I have never seen a U-Haul at a funeral!" So it is all for moot, but I have written in my Upon Death instructions, that someone will bring a U-Haul to my funeral. :yes:

Joe

Also well said - Joe :clap::clap::clap:......... Mike :thumbup:

 

[Highwayman2013]

This is a big reason why I got rid of my Spyder. Great machine, crappy tires.

Couldn't change tires?

 

[UtahPete]

Well said Peter , well said :clap::clap:..... Unfortunately there is an old adage " you can lead a horse to water , but you can't make them drink it ". Some people can grasp LOGIC, but others cannot, no matter how good your information is....... Mike :thumbup:

I have a T-shirt that says "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you".

 

[jaherbst]

Don't kid yourself Jack, Spyders with std rims can't actually EVER wear real 'motorcycle tires' - & that's especially the case if you are still running the OE Spec Kendas!!! :shocked:

Quite simply, the OE Kendas are NOT real 'motorcycle tires'; they aren't constructed like a motorcycle tire, they don't have motorcycle tire beads, they don't have motorcycle treads, and they are not designed to nor do they work like motorcycle tires!! Besides, you simply CANNOT safely fit ANY real 'motorcycle tire' onto any std Spyder rim anyway!! :lecturef_smilie: They might physically be able to be fitted, but the true 'motorcycle tire' bead profile is so significantly different to the Spyder rim which is designed to hold a car bead profile tire that taking your very first corner with a real motorcycle tire jammed onto the Spyder's car rim may well be your last!! :gaah:

That 'for special motorcycle use only' or whatever the stamp on the side of the OE Kendas may be is simply a made up & effectively meaningless label pulled out of someone's behind with no real validity apart from helping to con the suckers into thinking the Kendas are something special (when any vaguely competent tire tech can see at a glance that they aren't!) and to warn car owners NOT to put the Kendas onto their car because that would be MASSIVELY UNSAFE....

So your favourite mantra really should be "if you want more mileage, buy 'real' car tires. If you want safety, buy 'real' car tires". And don't let a few posters who are clearly unaware of the reality about these tires (and insist upon telling us all that they are "so sick of these endless tire threads" but never miss an opportunity to read them & then post up in them telling us that once again..... repeatedly!!) tell you that the OE Kendas are anything but cheaply produced poor quality car tires, cos THAT IS all that the OE Spec Kendas are!!' :shocked:

I'm just waiting for the first law-suit bringing BRP to task about trying to con people that the sub-par tires they insist upon fitting to our Spyders are anything but sub-par car tires.... it's not a matter of IF, it's more a matter of WHEN!! Hopefully, it won't bankrupt the company or force them to stop making Spyders, because apart from the crappy Kenda CAR tires that are clearly NOT true 'Motorcycle Tires', our Spyders are actually pretty fantastic machines! :dontknow:[/QUOT


Peter, I'm surprised even an astute individual such as your own self with strong (possibly wrong) opinions does not know a motorcycle tire from a car tire. What separates the two is the compound from which the tire is made. Motorcycle tires are a softer compound and thus provides more traction at any speed thus the safety factor. A softer compound will always wear much quicker than a harder less traction car tire. Average M/C rear tires get 8-12,000 miles depending on riding style. BRP has now changed the new kenda's with a more firm compound resulting in 17-19,000 miles if ridden in a reasonable manner.

Jack

 

[UtahPete]

BRP has now changed the new kenda's with a more firm compound resulting in 17-19,000 miles if ridden in a reasonable manner. Jack [/QUOTE]

Jack, this is good info but how reliable is it? Where are you getting this from?

 

[Highwayman2013]

I ride in a reasonable manor and got 10,000 from the rear tire on my 2016 F3L. Now I have a General Altimax RT43 on the rear.

 

[HankD]

As the old saying goes; Never yell "Tire!" in a crowded Spyder Forum. opcorn:

 

[BLUEKNIGHT911]

NEW CRAPENDA

BRP has now changed the new kenda's with a more firm compound resulting in 17-19,000 miles if ridden in a reasonable manner. Jack

Jack, this is good info but how reliable is it? Where are you getting this from?[/QUOTE]
IMHO ..... if they are using a Firmer compound they are still Bad but for a different reason :banghead::banghead::banghead:...... Their compound was not causing pre-mature Wear .... It's too FEW tread Belts / Plies which results in the tire Ballooning at anything above about 35 MPH ...... this causes the middle of their tire to wear first ( big time ). Also a Firmer compound isn't going to improve WET road driving ..... Mike :thumbup:

 

[jcthorne]

Peter, I'm surprised even an astute individual such as your own self with strong (possibly wrong) opinions does not know a motorcycle tire from a car tire. What separates the two is the compound from which the tire is made. Motorcycle tires are a softer compound and thus provides more traction at any speed thus the safety factor. A softer compound will always wear much quicker than a harder less traction car tire. Average M/C rear tires get 8-12,000 miles depending on riding style. BRP has now changed the new kenda's with a more firm compound resulting in 17-19,000 miles if ridden in a reasonable manner.

Jack

Sorry but this is flat out wrong. There are motorcycle tires with hard compounds, there are car tires with very soft compounds. The durometer of the rubber has nothing to do with the tire type.

Motorcycle tires and automotive tires are defined by the SAE by PROFILE, not compound.

 

[Peter Aawen]

Sorry but this is flat out wrong. There are motorcycle tires with hard compounds, there are car tires with very soft compounds. The durometer of the rubber has nothing to do with the tire type.

Motorcycle tires and automotive tires are defined by the SAE by PROFILE, not compound.

JC's post pretty much covers it all Jack. :dontknow:

And no matter what BRP or Kenda or even you might prefer us to believe & despite the 'let's see how many of the suckers we can fool' label stuck on the sidewall, for all intents & purposes & I strongly suspect even by legal definition in your country as well as here in mine, the OE Spec Kenda tires that they put on our Spyders are light-weight/lightly constructed Passenger CAR tires! :lecturef_smilie:

 

[UtahPete]

I just picked up my rear tire and wheel from the local Can-Am dealer. The tire is a General Altimax which they mounted and balanced for $40.

The service manager had returned from the BRP dealers' show where he was in a discussion with a BRP engineer and a couple other dealers when the car tire issue came up. Apparently, this engineer was only concerned about the replacement tire having similar adhesion qualities to the OEM and not differing from the OEM too much in terms of inflated diameter, as this has been known to throw VSS codes. The dealer (from Texas) said he has had a couple of customers come in with VSS codes which were traced to the customer having car tires (the brand and size not mentioned); nothing would clear the codes until they put an OEM tire on the bike.

My service manager just wanted me to be aware of this and asked that before I go on any long ride I first ride 100 miles locally so that if a problem arose with the VSS I wouldn't be surprised and would be close enough for them to look into it right away. He was very interested in knowing how my experience with the car tire worked out because apparently there is a dealer forum where this is a hot topic and he wanted to provide some relevant input.

This is just an FYI that neither BRP or the dealers apparently are ignoring this issue or taking the easy way out of refusing to deal with a customer who has non-OEM tires on their Spyder.

 

[Larry rt]

I have same tire on 2013 rt ltd , over 10,000 miles no issues as of too dat. Federal on front installed. . So far no issues!