Thought we were going over...

[SpyderSteveFL]

Was a bit disconcerting the other night when we were coming back from a ride and made a left, on a street in our neighborhood which we've been on before, at about the same speed (maybe slightly hot this time) but this time we came up on 2 wheels with the inside/left wheel probably a good foot off the ground. It really felt as though we were going to spill over to the right. Leaned heavy left and did see nanny come on and we came back down ok but it was a bit nerve wracking. Wife was scared and she even says 'we weren't even going that fast'. Since then I've noticed that she is alot more unstable with VSS kicking in where she wasn't before and just feels alot more unstable/twitchy in turns/corners. Feels alot 'lighter' in front end.

I did just get it back from shop from 3k service and fix of the burned out compressor but have ridden it a little since then with no apparent issue. Only thing I changed since is putting ride-on in the tires, 11-12oz in front and 16 in back (stock tires). Even the ride Tue night didn't seem bad earlier but like these symptoms just started. Really concerned about the handling now :yikes:

 

[Chupaca]

Yikes...!!

Have seen this before ryding behind a friend. What I noticed was a lot of sway in the rear and told him after the scare that the rear suspension was off. Check your rear suspension preload / air pressure which ever applies. :thumbup:

 

[Bob Denman]

Check your front tire pressures, while you're at it... :thumbup:
You might have also been going just a bit faster than you think...
("slightly hot" usually means "Way hot"! nojoke)
Nanny does what she does, in order to keep us safe. None of us like it when she puts her hand on our shoulder, but we can certainly appreciate that she does.

 

[SpyderSteveFL]

Have seen this before ryding behind a friend. What I noticed was a lot of sway in the rear and told him after the scare that the rear suspension was off. Check your rear suspension preload / air pressure which ever applies. :thumbup:

I did check the air after I got it back and it seemed like it was fixed right. I typically bump it up to top or 1 bar from top when 2-up and around the middle when solo. I'll check it again to see if something weird happened.

 

[SpyderSteveFL]

Bob: Tires were spot on - just did the ride-on the day before and FOBO reports both sides right at 20 +/- .3-5

I may agree if I were by myself as I can be more aggressive but if wife says 'we were not even going that fast' I don't think I could have been too hot. The thing is I've noticed this change for the worse on a ride since all in situations I've been in before.

Which begs the question - what is 'hot'? Has anyone checked their speed in turns? Take a typical left turn from a left turn lane into a 2 lane road. What is 'normal', what is 'hot'? 15mph normal? 25 hot? 30 very hot????

 

[Bob Denman]

"Hot" may just be the point where the electronics take a hand in what's going on...
This may be affected by the load on the bike, the distribution of the load, if there's any leaning going on to counteract centrifugal forces, the smoothness of the road, road surface wetness, etc...

 

[BilltheDiver]

HI Steve,

Nothing really to contribute, but since our bikes are so similar I will be watching this thread to see if I can learn anything. I will comment that I find my cornering a lot more stable at 22 psi in the front, but that shouldn't be too much of a difference.

 

[BajaRon]

I wasn't there so I'm not saying you're wrong. But typically, it feels like the inside tire was a foot off the ground but if you took a picture, it's likely to be much less. Even 4" up fells like a foot. It typically feels much worse than it really is. I agree, it feels very dangerous, especially when it is unexpected. And again, not to necessarily disagree with you. But it probably was not nearly as bad as it seemed. The inside tire can and will come up quite a ways before there is any real danger of flipping the Spyder.

It my experience it has more to do with the suddenness or abruptness with which you enter the turn than it does with speed. In other words, you can go quite a bit faster with no issues if you are very smooth in your entry and exit from a turn. But, at a much lower speed, you can easily lift the inside wheel (especially with a passenger) if you move the handlebars abruptly. This creates a lot of momentum (centrifugal force) to the outside of the turn and the stock Spyder is not well suited to handle or recover from this well. (Edit: I should qualify this statement to say the RT is most susceptible for several reasons. The F3 and other models are better at handling this particular situation)

I am not saying this is the only possibility. Just something to consider in the mix of contributing factors.

Though an experience like this can reduce your confidence in the Spyder. Even a stock Spyder is extremely stable to the point that even a concerted effort to flip a Spyder is likely to fail to do so.

 

[Bob Denman]

:agree: Thanks for this explanation. :clap:

 

[Devious56]

Just to remove any confussion, how much air pressure do you have in the rear shock. Not haw many bars show on your info screen, but how many pounds show on a guage? Are you riding an RT, or what model, do you have adjustable rear shock?

David

 

[JayBros]

I have one of Ron's sway bars and ride mostly solo and have gone into decreasing radius curves too hot and Nanny has saved my bacon more than once, occasionally with a real "Wake up, *sshole" effect. I have never pushed things with my wife aboard but we have many years of long distance tandem bicycle riding wherein we've had to lean the bike way over on lots of high speed descents. I told her to follow my leaning lead on the Spyder just as if we were on the tandem. She picked it up right off the bat and it makes a difference. We weigh 320 or so and I ride with the air bag at max bars. If your wife is comfortable with it you might give the dual leaning a try. Start sow and practice. Good luck!

 

[Lostinthenet]

Had this happen to my wife and I the nanny never kicked in my right foot righted us and we were going no more than 15 when It happened. A local cop saw the whole thing and explained to me what in our case was in his belief the main problem. It was the fact we were turning left onto a road that candor-ed sharply to the left. Have driven down and through that intersection many times with no other incidents. But usually we take a right at that stop sign. Have gone back and repeated and have not been able to duplicate the conditions on that day, Also sine then we have upgraded the sway-bar and links and once in a while i hear them clunk when I make the left at that intersection.

 

[Bob Denman]

If you're hearing a clunk; it's time to check the bolts for tightness... nojoke

 

[pitzerwm]

I agree with BajaRon, I too went into a left turn a little fast and the roadway was sloped to the right, the left wheel did come off the ground and it seemed like a foot, but I'm sure that it probably wasn't but an inch or 2. It does unnerve you the first time. No Nanny that I saw.

You might go by yourself and try to duplicate the same thing, same corner. IMO we all need to get to "learn" our bike's behaviors and limits. If nothing else you will be able to realize something is wrong before you are in a ditch. How many people have died because they didn't know how their ABS brakes worked?

 

[KJWEB]

After 40 years on two wheels, I had to learn all over again with riding the Spyder. In the state of WA your motorcycle enhancement doesn't cover trikes. So I had to the trike safety course. I did learn in class that approaching a corner on a trike has some very different techniques than two wheels.

First things that are common
- pick your track line for the curve in the approach to it
- adjust your speed

Not common
- on the Spyder, you accelerate at the very beginning of the curve not in the middle of the curve like on a bike. This keeps the Spyder in the track you picked and makes the corner very smooth. Letting up on the throttle will cause that "chatting" effect of the front end. This can cause you to over-steer and you get the feeling it's out of control. A sudden jerk of the handlebars especially toward the direction of the curve your body will be thrown to the outside and a front tire will come up....but not as far as you think. I was asked by the instructor to get one of the front tires up on the spyder in class. He didn't think I could do it. It was only off the ground maybe 1.5 to 2 seconds before the Nanny kicked in. The instructor estimated the tire to be about 4" off the ground.

On occasions, I really like to hammer a corner....when my wife isn't with me. I will be completely off the seat and leaned way over to the inside of the bike and my chest toward the mirror. Just like they do in quad racing. I know that's not for everyone.

My point is setting yourself and the Spyder up before the corner. Roll on the throttle at the start of the curve. You will feel how much smoother the Spyder reacts to the corner.

 

[Peter Aawen]

^^ Wot 'e says!! Especially this bit!!

..... My point is setting yourself and the Spyder up before the corner. Roll on the throttle at the start of the curve. You will feel how much smoother the Spyder reacts to the corner.

The Nanny reacts to the mix of signals from the steering angle sensor, the yaw & roll sensor, the throttle position, the ABS/wheel speed sensors & quite likely a few more, so if she's getting too much input from any one of them she'll act to calm things down a little.... usually by doing things like cutting the power &/or applying one or more of the individual brakes.

So if you do all your (necessary) braking before entering a curve, then gently feed the throttle on then dial the steering in smoothly, you'll very quickly learn how much of any of those is too much!!

Once you've got the 'smooth & early' application of control input sorted, then like the 'go faster' riders do on a quad, you will find that it helps you to get your weight transfer right if you PULL on the inside bar to turn (rather than pushing away on the outside bar) and PUSH DOWN (hard?!?) on your outside foot; doing that early transfers your weight in a manner that keeps the yaw & roll sensor happy & sure that you aren't going to tip the Spyder, and all that adds up to getting better at avoiding waking up the Nanny at the same time as cornering faster & smoother - and if you move your butt off the seat & lean more (especially upper body) to get your face over towards the mirror/above your wrist & your weight in & low, you'll be able to corner even faster & smoother again!!

But the real joy of Spyders is that you don't really HAVE to do any of this stuff if you don't want to!! If you are happy taking it easy & just riding gently, they aren't like most 2 wheel bikes in that you don't need some speed to keep them comfortable on the road (& how much can vary depending on the particular bike's design, steering rake, CoG etc) Regardless of your speed, your Spyder can be as gentle a ride as you like, & it's only when you start to really push it for speed thru the corners that you need to even think about all this stuff!!

All that said, the BajaRon bar definitely improves the stability & reduces the 'body roll' &/or the feeling that it's trying to throw you off the outside of any corner regardless, and if you want to go faster you can choose to go faster/ride harder & benefit even more from the stiffer bar - but learning & applying the techniques outlined above will help keep the Nanny in the background & let you go even faster again, and whatever speed & riding style you may have/want, the BajaRon bar still keeps on improving the ride & handling!! :thumbup:

 

[metman]

Anybody Rolled One?

Ron's bar, Stage 1 Elkas, and shock relocators were the first mods made to my '12 RT back at Spyderfest 2013. But a year or so back while in Florida, I made a U-turn on a boulevard where the center dividing section had a lot of crown. The inside wheel did come up, and that will get your attention real quickly. I know it came up, but have no guess as to how much.

It happened so quickly that I'm not sure Nanny had a chance to react. But I did stop at the first gas station to make sure I didn't need clean shorts.

My question is, does anybody know of a situation where somebody actually rolled an RT taking a corner?

Mike in KY

 

[The Governor]

I get on two wheels on purpose....hahahahahaha.....never been able to flip her, though.... The ever present Nanny won't let me ( thankfully ) I hope that helps. I'm an extremely aggressive rider, and she has never thrown me, or over centered.

 

[Bam Bam and Pebbles]

I ride aggressively also, frequently getting a front off the ground. It never has bugged me that much. The nanny would kick in with my 2012 RT quite often but with my 2015 RT, it has only kicked in once. Goin 75 up a curvy mountain road. Cutting across lanes, and when I checked my mirror to make sure no one was coming up behind me, (fat chance) I got into a sharper turn and really had to pull hard to the left. Left front came up a few inches and the nanny set me back down. I just had my 3000 mile service done. Hope nothing changes on mine cuz Cocaine lets me tear up the road with no complaints.

 

[OverHillAndDale]

My left wheel left the ground just once, but it didn't really feel scary or out of control.

I was going slowly - turning 90 degrees left from a driveway onto a road, accelerating briskly, and the road sloped down to the right. I hit the brakes and the byke immediately dropped on all 3 tires and continued on like nothing every happened.