Vendor Vampires

[pitzerwm]

I have been in business 30+ years and I have put on small events along the way. The promoter is correct that an event is a business transaction and it should at least break even. When vendors or attendees feel that they didn't get their monies worth, they don't attend/do business with that person in the future and he/the event dies. Sometimes they don't die quick enough for my liking:banghead:

People that have never been involved in putting on an event really have no idea how many man hours are needed and money up front. IMO most of these are successful only because of all of the volunteers. I don't know the promoter that is the subject of this tread, but from reading his response IMO he is a bit naive in running any kind of business. Of course, he couldn't of been aware of a TD, but the county thing is on him. He should have had a contract with the county/city that protected him from any changes. Time will tell if he pulls off the Smokies event. I don't wish anyone bad luck, if they are idiots they usually self destruct without my help.

Hopefully he learned from his pass mistakes and everyone will enjoy the next event. This is a small community, so secrets don't last long.

 

[SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN]

the shows i used to do were serious trade shows with very big money involved, smaller shows are a lot of work & may or may
not always show profit. the limousine shows i vended at were run by companies who also had spots to sell their stuff. they
also had gift bags that 'sponsors' spend a lot of money on that the show profits from. i did the jacob javits show in nyc one year,
they charge 20 years ago $105 for a large bad of potatoe chips & a suitcase of beer and they make it hard to move in & out unless
you have their union people do it for you for a considerable charge.

 

[Bob Denman]

Speaking of shows... and you mentioned the Javits Center...

http://www.motorcycleshows.com/

 

[ARtraveler]

The climate seems to have changed a bit towards big events and the vendors that attend them as well as those who sponsor the events.

I now count four such events where there have been some "fallout" concerning the above.

I for one would be very cautions about sticking my neck out in hopes an event will bring enough people and vendors to make it happen and to assure that those at risk get a fair profit for their efforts.

Just hoping that the fallout does not put a big crimp on the next round of special :ani29: events that are now being held all over the country.

Those who have never been involved in such an undertaking should understand that there is a whole lot going on in the background to assure that the event goes off smoothly.

 

[Woodsrider]

That is the reason we are setting up away from there. The guy at The Hub is great in letting us set up there. Motel is directly across the street. We will be on the main road!

Doc, the 'event' for me is the roads out there and the vendors. You guys setup somewhere and arrange a Spyderlovers price on some rooms and I'll take a chance on the weather and make a reservation where you guys setup. I'm not doing the Spyders in the Smokies and 'bleh' to Fontana, but I'm up for a run around the mountains most any time. Decent chance it'll be friggin cold and nasty though...end of October is a real iffy time there.

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Doc, the 'event' for me is the roads out there and the vendors. You guys setup somewhere and arrange a Spyderlovers price on some rooms and I'll take a chance on the weather and make a reservation where you guys setup. I'm not doing the Spyders in the Smokies and 'bleh' to Fontana, but I'm up for a run around the mountains most any time. Decent chance it'll be friggin cold and nasty though...end of October is a real iffy time there.

We are staying at the Mirotel Hotel in Robbinsville ($89 a night) A bunch of us are coming in Wednesday night and will do a ryde Thursday morning. You are welcome to join us. As far as discounts, I will have the SL discounts available and we are giving away a Spyder Rack and a Spyder Pack. Free to register....

 

[PaladinLV]

Sounds like you need an education in the costs of setting up a rally and rallys in general!
Have you ever checked out the Vendor costs of Harley Rallies or the Vendor Costs of the various Bikefests?'
Did you ever stop to think why the big name vendors at these events travel in 18 wheelers that accommodate sleeping or come in motorhomes and why they travel to dozens of these events over the year?
Rallies are not for a Mom & Pop'er unless the reason you go is to get the word and name out. Not saying that is the way it should be, only stating the REALITY of Rallies and Bikefests.
Permits, security, licenses, insurance, LEO overtime, porta potties, the list is endless, and one or two bad weather days or low turn-out, it's a bust!
What to gripe about costs? Check out Sturgis and they get 500K bikers with oodles of money!

So how do I know this stuff, what is MY experience? Committee person for 2 HOG Rallies for the state of NV and working the Las Vegas Bifefest for several years.

You hold a rally out in the boonies with no local big business that will profit form the rally, then little or no sponsors.

But like the old song, "The grass is always greener in the other fellows yard!"

AJ

One thing I have not liked about the Spyder events are the fact that the vendor fees are so high. This is one thing that has kept smaller vendors from coming to some shows. And let's face it, farkles are one of the best things about having these events. I would think it would make more sense to offer vendors more incentive to come so that the event would have a bigger Spyder draw. After the little guy has taken the fees out for the event, paid for their lodging, their fuel to get there and home that leaves them little in the way of profit. So what do they do? Raise the prices of their products. And where is this extra money going? Right into the promoter's pocket. It just doesn't seem right. Some of them will tell you that it is expensive to put one of these on. Wondering how much profit they are making? None have allowed me a look at their books.

 

[SpyderAnn01]

AJ, you are talking apples and oranges here. The biggest Spyder rally draws about 1,500 people and most of the others 200 to 500 people. All of the vendors who attend are pretty much mom and pop operations. If we are charged a big fee we cannot make any money and we will stay home.

 

[RTJERRY]

Rally's

Sounds like sour grapes to me. You have to spend money to make money. Will we find you set up outside the fairgrounds at Spyderfest too?

 

[SpyderAnn01]

Sounds like sour grapes to me. You have to spend money to make money. Will we find you set up outside the fairgrounds at Spyderfest too?

What???

 

[Pampurrs]

What happened to Larry Hammond's post

I thought Larry made some good points about what it takes to organize an event. I was looking forward to seeing the comments about it. I went out for a few hours, and when I came home it's gone. Was he a victim of the Censor?

Pam

 

[SpyderAnn01]

I thought Larry made some good points about what it takes to organize an event. I was looking forward to seeing the comments about it. I went out for a few hours, and when I came home it's gone. Was he a victim of the Censor?

Pam

Must be, I never saw his post.

 

[SL Ken]

I thought Larry made some good points about what it takes to organize an event. I was looking forward to seeing the comments about it. I went out for a few hours, and when I came home it's gone. Was he a victim of the Censor?

Pam

He did say that he was banned from this site and didn't expect to be here long. :dontknow:

 

[PaladinLV]

I understand that, Ann.
But the promotional costs although lower then a bigger event are still there.
Insurance is always high; less security is needed but still needed 24/7, permits still required.
Maybe the answer is to charge higher amounts to attendees, but then would they show up?
OR if not being utilized by a promoter, get more VOLUNTEERS to help.
If a vendor feels it is not cost effective, no one is twisting their arm.
Most rallies are not attended because of the vendors, but for the camaraderie, meeting new people, making new friends but most of all having fun!

There are only 3 money sources: Vendors, participants, or sponsors.
Finally you need communication, communication, communication, and more communication.

Local HOG (State) Rallies, like here in NV typically draw @ 200 - 300 bikers that's small!
AZ when held in Williams gets @1000 or more - so there is a big difference state to state.

So how does NV do it with only @ 200 - 300 bikers? Sponsors, sponsors, sponsors. Their money pays for T-shirts, hats, trophies, free or discounted meals.
What do we get from local dealerships? ZERO! However, sometimes they will spring for a free "meal" at the dealership.
Fortunately, here in Vegas we are in the Hospitality Business and enough hotels, casinos, bars, and restaurants understand "goodwill gestures!"
Now this is the responsibility of the PROMOTER/Organizer! So they are responsible for doing their homework and honing their pencil and again communication, communication, communication. This is were you need a good Insurance Salesman!

So each event is a PARTNERSHIP between the promoter, vendor, sponsor, and participant. Each has their role to play and each NEEDS to step up to the plate.

Spyder is the new kid on the block, it's taken years - hell decades - for HOG members to get it down and do it right. Spyder will succeed, but like most success stories it won't happen overnight and the original trails opened by the pioneers will face the toughest hurdles. Spyder need not reinvent the wheel but only emulate the many successful rallies held across this country.

I'm sure you understand this and this longwinded reply is for the casual reader who maybe new to the sport and may not

AJ

AJ, you are talking apples and oranges here. The biggest Spyder rally draws about 1,500 people and most of the others 200 to 500 people. All of the vendors who attend are pretty much mom and pop operations. If we are charged a big fee we cannot make any money and we will stay home.

 

[pitzerwm]

I thought Larry made some good points about what it takes to organize an event. I was looking forward to seeing the comments about it. I went out for a few hours, and when I came home it's gone. Was he a victim of the Censor?

Pam

He might have been deleted, as he had also posted in this thread, so I PM'd him and suggested that he delete his thread, but I see both are gone.

Ann, I was surprised to hear that SRITR only charged you $100 and then returned it. I'd think that you wouldn't disagree that $100 was very reasonable considering that someone supplied a "tent" (which you didn't need) and you were in the printed materials.

As has been stated it cost time and money to put on any event, the bigger the more money. We are a niche group, so 1500 for the "big one" isn't zip in reference to the amount of base overhead that you must meet. Like most endeavors it's never linear, the money required and time is out of proportion at the beginning then goes nuts when you don't need the unexpected headaches.

If he was banned, he could have not even logged on. The bottom line is that just because you know something doesn't mean that you can make money at it. That why the business failure rate is 85-95% and surprise, a bank won't loan you money to find out if you can do it.

 

[Roadster Renovations]

Poor Management?

First of all this thread was started due to the Myrtle Beach Rally and what happened there. I will not go back through the reasons for that, but I was surprised of the $15,000.00 overhead for the Spyder in the Smokey Rally. Since I was there last year I can say that to me it appears that amount is extremely disproportional to the attendance. Without any vendors fees, and based upon the attendance, I would guess that there couldn't have been more than 100-150 Spyders total. That would have been a per person fee of $100-150 for the event, which is ridiculous. No one would have paid that, myself included. What I don't understand is additional money being paid to the event above the room and cabin fees as well as the revenue from the store and the restaurant. It's simple economics that 100 rooms at $100 a night for 3 nights comes out to $30,000. That sounds like to me that would have been enough to secure the facility and they should have been extremely happy to have hosted our event for just that and the store and restaurant fees.
So obviously I do not know how these events work, but I will say that when vendor fees are high it is self-defeating for an event. It will cause less vendor attendance, higher prices to the attendees, and reduce the number that attend. Perhaps it is just poor management on his part.

 

[Woodsrider]

Have a nibble on selling the spyder but if that falls through I'll be making a reservation for 'off the reservation'. May even do it without a spyder and bring a two wheeler.

My thoughts on the bruhaha.....300 bikes for 15k....pick a different venue, go to all Ryder paid food, don't reserve conference rooms, go with an outside open area (like thunder in the smokies does @ maggie valley).

Knock the costs down to the bare bones and make it about the Ryders and Vendors, not the promoter.

 

[spydaman60]

doc,
as vp for spyderquest i can tell you that we do not charge vendors a dime for attending. we only ask that they donate a product or two of theirs for our farkle bingo, which i feel is very reasonable.(no set dollar amount) we have donors that don't even vend, that make these donations as well. we welcome you with open arms, and wished you would consider spyderquest. we're not in it for a profit at all, we just look to put forth a great event for our participants, so that they will want to come back again.
regards,
chuck b. (aka spydaman60):thumbup:

 

[iSpyder]

Balance

I think the key word here is balance. I work for an organization that holds a July 4th fireworks show each year. We usually have about 2,500 to 3,000 people in attendance. For the first time, we asked food trucks to come and provide food to the attendees at whatever cost they wanted to charge. At first it was hard to convince food trucks to come (maybe they didn't believe we had that many people each year...I don't know). Since it was our first time to do this, we told the food trucks we would not charge a fee for them to be there. We had four trucks present and one that did not show. Well they came and made a ton of money as they had lines of people all night.

Of course they all wanted to sign up for a spot next year after they saw the event and how much money they could (and did) make. We told them there would be a vendor fee next year and they wholeheartedly agreed. The benefit to the vendor is more than just sales during the event it is also an opportunity to expose people to their products that might result in future sales and getting their products and company out there and known to a crowd of people that are more likely to want their product (e.g. vendors who sell Spyder specific products at a Spyder rally).

On one hand, the vendors should pay a reasonable amount of money for the ability to sell their product to a crowd that is related to what they are selling. However, if a rally or event charges a vendor too much, they can't afford to come and all lose out. I think it is important for vendors and event organizers to find that magic "win/win" scenario.

Of course this whole discussion is really about what is a "reasonable" fee...

 

[donkes]

the vendors are my favorite part :lecturef_smilie: