ethanol ................

[Flight Risk]

My motorcycle club does back road driving which takes us threw some really really small towns. I watch for the Ethanol stickers on the gas pumps and have seen "up to 10% Ethanol" and now "10% Ethanol". Is there an additive we should be putting in our gas tanks? Ever since my last oil change my mpg have dropped. Just wondering if it's not great gas or what. FYI, I always use the highest octane level they offer. Any thoughts

[TXHusker]

My motorcycle club does back road driving which takes us threw some really really small towns. I watch for the Ethanol stickers on the gas pumps and have seen "up to 10% Ethanol" and now "10% Ethanol". Is there an additive we should be putting in our gas tanks? Ever since my last oil change my mpg have dropped. Just wondering if it's not great gas or what. FYI, I always use the highest octane level they offer. Any thoughts

Lots of threads on this subject, but I use startron. I got about 10% bump in MPG after using it.

[NancysToy]

You're lucky they label it where you live. Here in Michigan they don't have to label it until it has 15% ETOH.

[vrodrjs]

I wouldn't know what to do if I saw a station selling gas that didn't have corn juice in it.

[1morespyderrid]

what is startron

[dliszews]

what is startron

Have been using Startron fuel stabilizer in both cars and cycles since ethanol has shown up with good results. Here are the details:

http://mystarbrite.com/startron/

[joet82]

I had the same thing happen while i was in Missouri for SPyderFest. added some Gumout to the tank and it was a near immediate recovery of gas mileage...was down to 100 mptank.

[boborgera]

what is startron

It's a gas treatment you can get it at Auto-Zone, NAPA, etc.
Comes in a plastic bottle aqua color liquid.

[Illinois Boy]

For what it is worth:

The manual for the RTS-SE5 states that the recommended octane is 91 in the U.S.; and minimum of no less than 89. It also states to NOT use any fuel with more than 10% Ethanol.

So clearly 10% Ethanol fuel meets the manufacturer's specification.

In Illinois it is difficult, if not impossible, to find fuel without it... unless you go near the rivers or large lakes. Then you can find "Recreational Fuel" that does not contain Ethanol. (Evidently boat motors and ethanol are a very bad combination. Because ethanol can destroy gaskets and rubber fuel lines... fuel can leak and catch fire. Another problem is ethanol attracts moisture readily. Not good since boats are made to float on the stuff!)

[Chazzman]

You better use an additive if you can't get ethanol free fuel, it's taking a toll on car engines and killing small engines.

[smurfette]

I add stabilizer every time I fuel up now. Been doing that ever since I got a bad tank of gas a few months ago. No problems since! Thanks to my dealer who figured it out right away and prevented further damage!

[bmwlarry]

What stabilizer do you use and how much per gallon do you add?

[2 Cruysyn]

What stabilizer do you use and how much per gallon do you add?

Star Tron, one ounce at fill up which is usually four gallons or so. Much more than the recommended ratio.

[ThreeWheels]

You better use an additive if you can't get ethanol free fuel, it's taking a toll on car engines and killing small engines.

How so ??

I'm not a big supporter of ethanol. I know all the economic and performance drawbacks, but engines that are designed for it shouldn't be damaged.

[Illinois Boy]

How so ??

I'm not a big supporter of ethanol. I know all the economic and performance drawbacks, but engines that are designed for it shouldn't be damaged.

I would probably agree with you on that. Much of ethanol's problems were related to older engines not designed to use ethanol -- or motors that are specifically not designed to use it.

BRP states clearly that ethanol gas up to 10% mixture can be used. I would be most assured they wouldn't state that and then use rubber and gaskets that get eaten-up by ethanol. One would certainly hope not. Their lawyers would be having fits if they did.

Besides... adding some fuel-additives to your Spyder can increase the octane. All motors have their limits on what octane they can handle and still operate as the engineers designed them to run. Increased octane changes the temp and firing of the fuel within the cylinder -- and this goes without mentioning the air mixture with the fuel.

It may be that some of you are far more intelligent than the engineering teams that designed these units; but far be it for me to argue with the design engineers. I'll trust the engineers' opinions first. Besides... if I do what they tell me to do... I have recourse with the company in the event something goes wrong.

Just my two-cents.

[Chazzman]

Listed in the next paragraph below was something I pulled quickly from the internet, I am no mechanic or Engineer, I have been a Fixed Operations Director for many years supervising up to 15 new car dealerships, mechanical shops, body shops and parts departments... All the shop managers and technicians are complaining about the damage ethanol is causing in car engines, even the ones designed to use ethanol fuel, we are seeing the need for injectors being cleaned every 15K. It is causing drive-ability problems to some degree, our field service engineering has agreed. I even use a fuel additive in my wife's 2011 vehicle along with ethanol free fuel just as a precautionary action.


Here’s what happens: In smaller engines, ethanol can create a chain reaction of events that end up clogging valves and rusting out small metal parts — including, crucially, carburetors.

“When you mix ethanol with your fuel, you’ve now put a chemical substance in there that’s going to attract moisture, which is going to promote a quicker deterioration of the fuel that you have,” said Bob Magnotti, owner of Magnotti’s Small Engine Service in Roanoke, Va.
In effect, said Doug Ryms, a mechanic at Como Mower Service in Columbus, Ohio, “the alcohol actually dissipates the oil. So on a two-cycle engine, you’re lubricating the engine, but the oil is being pushed away, so it’s actually not lubricating the engine.”
That creates a gummy residue, called shellack, that clogs filters and hoses. And it does no good to follow the rocking-chair wisdom that says you’ll be fine if you drain the tank before you gas it back up.
“People will tell you you can take the gas out of them and it won’t happen, but it’s the residue that does the damage,” Mallisham said.


I do know the above statement is referring to older small engines and two cycle engines not designed to run on ethanol. The service manager at the Can Am dealer that I purchased from stated they were seeing lot's of issues in twin engines caused from ethanol and to try and get ethanol free fuel or use the additive. So far I have complied and feel it has it's positive benefits. To each his own I guess but for me it's ethanol free or an additive to remove the ethanol.

[Illinois Boy]

Listed in the next paragraph below was something I pulled quickly from the internet, I am no mechanic or Engineer, I have been a Fixed Operations Director for many years supervising up to 15 new car dealerships, mechanical shops, body shops and parts departments... All the shop managers and technicians are complaining about the damage ethanol is causing in car engines, even the ones designed to use ethanol fuel, we are seeing the need for injectors being cleaned every 15K. It is causing drive-ability problems to some degree, our field service engineering has agreed. I even use a fuel additive in my wife's 2011 vehicle along with ethanol free fuel just as a precautionary action.


Here’s what happens: In smaller engines, ethanol can create a chain reaction of events that end up clogging valves and rusting out small metal parts — including, crucially, carburetors.

“When you mix ethanol with your fuel, you’ve now put a chemical substance in there that’s going to attract moisture, which is going to promote a quicker deterioration of the fuel that you have,” said Bob Magnotti, owner of Magnotti’s Small Engine Service in Roanoke, Va.
In effect, said Doug Ryms, a mechanic at Como Mower Service in Columbus, Ohio, “the alcohol actually dissipates the oil. So on a two-cycle engine, you’re lubricating the engine, but the oil is being pushed away, so it’s actually not lubricating the engine.”
That creates a gummy residue, called shellack, that clogs filters and hoses. And it does no good to follow the rocking-chair wisdom that says you’ll be fine if you drain the tank before you gas it back up.
“People will tell you you can take the gas out of them and it won’t happen, but it’s the residue that does the damage,” Mallisham said.


I do know the above statement is referring to older small engines and two cycle engines not designed to run on ethanol. The service manager at the Can Am dealer that I purchased from stated they were seeing lot's of issues in twin engines caused from ethanol and to try and get ethanol free fuel or use the additive. So far I have complied and feel it has it's positive benefits. To each his own I guess but for me it's ethanol free or an additive to remove the ethanol.

You make good points that have been debated ad-nauseum since the inception of ethanol.

Carbureted engines would be an older engine for the most part, and two-cycle are not recommended to run ethanol -- so there clearly would be problems with them.

My point is that it would be debatable if it is wise, or beneficial to run fuel-additives with every tank. It would seem to be overkill. However, an occasional use of them might be beneficial. Having said that, there will be those that believe you need to use additives every tank because occasional-use would not be enough to clean the fuel injectors. To that point is the debate.

However, what is worse? Having your pistons firing a bit early at higher temps for the entire use of the engine; or once in a while having your fuel system cleaned to remove "buildup". That service doesn't cost that much... the problems of an engine burning too hot, and firing early does.

Last but not least, I, personally, buy the octane recommended. If 91 isn't available, I'll use 89. Also I try to buy gas from name-brand stations that have additives to their fuel (including their ethanol-blend)(i.e., Shell, Mobil, etc). These additives will clean your fuel system (everywhere fuel will travel and be fired) on your vehicle -- thus eliminating the need for additional additives.

Just a thought, not an argument. I can always have my opinion changed by those more informed than I.

[spyderbirds]

Until recently there was no local supplier of ethanol free gas.
I had ample chance to run with and without additives to combat the ethanol. My main concern was phase seperation of the moisture the ethanol draws.
The variability of getting an accurate fill of the spyder tank and varied road and weather conditions make it very hard to quantify any additive tank to tank.
I can say without a doubt our RT performs and even sounds different on pure gas vs ethanol contaminated gas.
I also believe after numerous attempts to wean the RT off of startron enzyme additive that it indeed runs better and gets better MPG with the additive when running the blended fuel.
How many vehicles would a manufacturer sell if they said use ethanol blended fuel only if pure gas cannot be found?. Now talking 15% blends ... argh

[SPYD3R]

My motorcycle club does back road driving which takes us threw some really really small towns. I watch for the Ethanol stickers on the gas pumps and have seen "up to 10% Ethanol" and now "10% Ethanol". Is there an additive we should be putting in our gas tanks? Ever since my last oil change my mpg have dropped. Just wondering if it's not great gas or what. FYI, I always use the highest octane level they offer. Any thoughts

use STA-BIL BLUE..... works gr8....

[Illinois Boy]

I understand that ethanol "attracts" moisture; however from what I can find on the subject, it takes a little while for that to happen -- like leaving gas in a tank for a long time; and also where an unusual amount of air can penetrate into the tank.

If you ride your Spyder fairly often, I don't see where you are getting that much moisture in your fuel.

I will, however, admit that when I buy non-ethanol, high-grade fuel at a name-brand station that I believe my Spyder runs better. But then again, I also think my car runs like a top when I change the oil and wash it.

[Grandpa Spyder]

I envy all of you that can buy gas without ethanol, that is not an option where I live.

[Deputy56]

check out http://pure-gas.org/. there is a list for each state. I purchase some the other day at a local station and noticed a distinct difference.

[Huntindawg1962]

As I understand it from the "boating world" - the problem is not necessarily just the ethanol and its water loving characteristics, but if you let it sit in your tank unused for a while (like in storage) and DONT stabilize it, as the ethanol breaks down it leaves some pretty "nasty" substances behind and that is where you may run into problems with engine parts. Sure, the ethanol in and of itself is not an issue with today's hoses and engine parts (when the manufacturer says ethanol ok) - but the breakdown by products may get you.

Hmmmm - With all this alcohol in our gas anymore - why do they continue to sell HEET at the gas stations? If a little is good, more is better?

There are numerous stabilizers - Startron was the first mentioned in this thread, STA-BIL (get the one that says ethanol - blue as the poster before me said), Sea Foam, etc. Need something if it is going to sit for a while for sure.

I run a can of Sea Foam every 8-10 tank ups for general engine clean up.

[Illinois Boy]

The debate goes on...

Here is a site with a lot of good information to read about fuel, ethanol, and fuel additives.

This link provides a summary of fuel additives and what to watch-out for, when to use them, and when to not.

http://www.fueltestkit.com/is_gas_ad..._e10_list.html

There are a lot of other links on this site to the left that further discusses this issue and others.

Here is one on understanding E10 fuel... a list of what to look for and/or what NOT to do.

http://www.fueltestkit.com/ethanol_e...ecautions.html

Given the cost of vehicles, it might be a good idea to read a bit about fuel and the various additives available. There are some you might find are NOT a good idea, while others might be once in a while.

Anyway... this is here for the purpose of helping...

[Schnauzer]

I've been adding accetone{1cap)everyother tank or so in my 99EG for the past year. I noticed an increase of roughly 8mpg more depending on my driving habits. I also recently had my bobber returned after being loaned out for a year. They had only placed around 800miles in that time. I rode it home and the carbs were clogged and running extremely rough. I put 2 caps in and ran 2 tanks of fuel, it seems to have cleared itself up. Our 2011 RT has 23K on it and I have used accetone for an additive. The biggest issue with ethanol is the amount of time it sets in the tank doing nothing. This may be one of the reasons we have not had any issues since our bikes are rode almost 24/7.. my 2 are for sure, my only transportation. Spyder is ridden when it ain't raining to and from work for the spouse. I'm leary of over the counter additives due to the fact they themselves have additive to make it what it is. ie..color/viscosity..I'm not a rocket scientist just an ole skool biker who hates electronics on motorcycles. It only takes 5 positive & 1 negative wire to get you down the road legally. "Not a halfdozen onboard computers"