Electrical bus protocols what I've found so far

[altonk]

Someone emailed and asked so I thought I'd post it here.
There are two busses on the Spyder

1 the can bus it's standard can bus and let's the VSS talk to the engine/ECM and yaw rate sensors

2 the k bus it's standard obdii and uses kwp 2000 protocol . The ECM talks to the console with it

I wired a odbii cable to the buds connector and I have a obdii protocol analyzer, an elmchip style $100 USB cable connected to it and I'm reading it in matlab

I've isolated steering angle, wheel speed,yaw rates and angles on can so far

I need to go to a dealer and record a buds session so I can talk to it.

I talked to bosche racing and they don't have access to the sypder VSS software so I can't talk to it unless I buy the race setup and it's 6000 euros. I haven't ruled it out completely though
Anyway that's all for now I'll put up a cable diagram and where you can get a cheap analyzer later

[SpyderWolf]

More interesting notes from the lab of the mad scientist.

The question is will a dealer let you tap in and record a BUDS session, or do you have another way to use that data?

Thanks for sharing your findings with us.

[altonk]

He doesn't need to know. I'll run my parallel cable to the tank bag and put my handheld pc in there. Throw a permanent code and take it to the shop, tell him it's acting flaky and run through all the settings and calibrations. He'll shake his head and say everythings ok, it must be that turbo and those wheels and I'll have my data.

[SpyderWolf]

He doesn't need to know. I'll run my parallel cable to the tank bag and put my handheld pc in there. Throw a permanent code and take it to the shop, tell him it's acting flaky and run through all the settings and calibrations. He'll shake his head and say everythings ok, it must be that turbo and those wheels and I'll have my data.

The word espionage comes to mind here.

Best of luck with your plan.

[altonk]

Sometimes it's not just the gear it's the conop

[Firefly]

Better not mess around too much---- I hear putting a diode across the tps will blow your engine------lol :-)

[Firefly]

-from 5/18

then on 5/21-



Guess your heartfelt apology was short-lived, huh?

What happened, wake up with one of your other personalities this morning?

BTW, I don't think he'll blow his engine, sounds like he knows what he's doing.......

You refused the apology and the deal to 'ignore'---- and never offered up any apologies in return. (not that I'm shocked).

Just letting people know that the proper diode across the TPS CANNOT 'blow the engine up' as you said it would. Maybe it won't help with throttle hesitation -- but it sure as heck CANNOT 'blow an engine up'....

You stay classy now HDX......

[Firefly]

If you run it lean enough, long enough, my friend, please be sure to post the photos of the holes in your pistons...........

....most of the mechanics I know would call that a 'blown engine'....

A. -- I'm not your friend.....
2. -- What I described doing won't LEAN the mix.

[Firefly]

o2 mod makes the mix richer - not leaner:


can-am o2 modifier kit application: spyder sm5 ('08/'09), spyder se5 (2009)
p/n 88090



this "plug-n-play" module modifies the signal sent to the ecu via the o2 sensor line. with a more performance-based signal, the light throttle drivability is improved.

[altonk]

Guys this thread on electrical protocols won't be that useful if it turns into another cat fight

[Firefly]

Guys this thread on electrical protocols won't be that useful if it turns into another cat fight

Sorry bro----

Back to the regular scheduled programming........good luck on your continued cracking and hacking!

[altonk]

No worries I'll start another performance thread for you two to have at

[Firefly]

No worries I'll start another performance thread for you two to have at

Nah--- I'm done with him--- he'll need to go find a new 'friend'....

TAG---- YER IT !!!!!

[Some Guy]

More interesting notes from the lab of the mad scientist.

Very interesting. Keep up the good work Alton.

[Raptor]

Someone emailed and asked so I thought I'd post it here.
There are two busses on the Spyder

1 the can bus it's standard can bus and let's the VSS talk to the engine/ECM and yaw rate sensors

2 the k bus it's standard obdii and uses kwp 2000 protocol . The ECM talks to the console with it

I wired a odbii cable to the buds connector and I have a obdii protocol analyzer, an elmchip style $100 USB cable connected to it and I'm reading it in matlab

I've isolated steering angle, wheel speed,yaw rates and angles on can so far

I need to go to a dealer and record a buds session so I can talk to it.

I talked to bosche racing and they don't have access to the sypder VSS software so I can't talk to it unless I buy the race setup and it's 6000 euros. I haven't ruled it out completely though
Anyway that's all for now I'll put up a cable diagram and where you can get a cheap analyzer later

I find what you are doing extremely interesting. I admire the skill involved to be able to break it out like that. EDIT! I withdraw my pervious question! I just found a really good tutorial and white paper that is going to fill in quite a few holes for me. The senors are just I/O nodes on a twisted pair physical layer. I think it's going to be a good read. Once they said "network" that got into my wheel house! It's already making more sense.

This is really cool stuff your doing here. I don't think anyone has taken it this far before.

[altonk]

You can use a product based on this chip

http://www.elmelectronics.com/DSheets/ELM327QS.pdf


Something like this
http://www.obdtester.com/elm-usb

And it will decode the protocols and record sessions

[lonnibdd]

o2 mod makes the mix richer - not leaner:


can-am o2 modifier kit application: spyder sm5 ('08/'09), spyder se5 (2009)
p/n 88090



this "plug-n-play" module modifies the signal sent to the ecu via the o2 sensor line. with a more performance-based signal, the light throttle drivability is improved.

actually after much talking with dealers and trial and error I do agree with you richer but not at the right spots after much much much messing around ripped all the bull off bone stock + two bros dual and runs better than it ever has still has little hesitation but with juice box you only have low mid and high so orderd m1 sound tips and just enough back pressure to richen up on low end and only way to get anymore perfect would be power commander to do it in 5% intervals.

[Firefly]

actually after much talking with dealers and trial and error I do agree with you richer but not at the right spots after much much much messing around ripped all the bull off bone stock + two bros dual and runs better than it ever has still has little hesitation but with juice box you only have low mid and high so orderd m1 sound tips and just enough back pressure to richen up on low end and only way to get anymore perfect would be power commander to do it in 5% intervals.

Yeah-- I'd like the PC with auto-tune and the ability to switch maps on the fly-- but to do it right is around a grand.....

Glad you got her running better. I also have the fuel pressure mod (which you cannot use with the stock airbox) -- and you could get her running really rich-- but it was rich all the time-- so I added the JB and was able to lower the fuel pressure a bit more.

Can't swing the PC and Auto tune right now-- so I'm just gonna buy an AFR gauge and fine tune as good as possible that way....

Sure like the looks of those two-bros twins.....

[Raptor]

Yeah-- I'd like the PC with auto-tune and the ability to switch maps on the fly-- but to do it right is around a grand.....

Glad you got her running better. I also have the fuel pressure mod (which you cannot use with the stock airbox) -- and you could get her running really rich-- but it was rich all the time-- so I added the JB and was able to lower the fuel pressure a bit more.

Can't swing the PC and Auto tune right now-- so I'm just gonna buy an AFR gauge and fine tune as good as possible that way....

Sure like the looks of those two-bros twins.....

I know man, me too - but that is yet another grand! I was toying with the idea of the Evo fuel pressure mod, as I do believe that the Spyder suffers from a chronic lean condition even at bone stock. I especially liked the fact that it is adjustable and with the gage that you get with it it seems like you can dial it in pretty well. I just might buy another pressure regulator and do the mod knowing that I have one in my back pocket if I ever want to back it out. I just don't think I want to start chasing after a JB or a PC. More electronics on the machine is not sitting well with me at this point.

[Raptor]

You can use a product based on this chip

http://www.elmelectronics.com/DSheets/ELM327QS.pdf


Something like this
http://www.obdtester.com/elm-usb

And it will decode the protocols and record sessions

This post along with the tutorials I have read is kind of bringing things together. How are you able to distinguish which sensor is which? Is it via the message identifiers or does the application do that for you?

I think the real challenge is going to be figuring out how to directly address the computer on the Spyder so that you can adjust the control laws within the program. I assume this is the ultimate goal here...

[Firefly]

I know man, me too - but that is yet another grand! I was toying with the idea of the Evo fuel pressure mod, as I do believe that the Spyder suffers from a chronic lean condition even at bone stock. I especially liked the fact that it is adjustable and with the gage that you get with it it seems like you can dial it in pretty well. I just might buy another pressure regulator and do the mod knowing that I have one in my back pocket if I ever want to back it out. I just don't think I want to start chasing after a JB or a PC. More electronics on the machine is not sitting well with me at this point.

A few things to note---

The fuel pressure mod does NOT come with the gauge-- that is an extra $$$. You can probably buy a similar gauge at Harbor Freight--- but I did buy the Evo one...

In order to use the fuel pressure mod you cannot run the stock airbox-- gotta run the evo or maybe the kewlmetal

Good call on buying an extra regulator.

Ordered an AFR kit-- will install soon.....

[altonk]

This post along with the tutorials I have read is kind of bringing things together. How are you able to distinguish which sensor is which? Is it via the message identifiers or does the application do that for you?

I think the real challenge is going to be figuring out how to directly address the computer on the Spyder so that you can adjust the control laws within the program. I assume this is the ultimate goal here...

I used the data sheets from the racing version of the abs controller and the yaw rate sensor. Then I jacked up the Spyder and spun wheels individually turned steering etc

[altonk]

I can't modify VSS but I would like to record telemetry and gps tag it. And be able to cal sensors bleed brakes etc

[Raptor]

Makes perfect sense. It's going to be very interesting to see where this goes. It's just cool to gain a better understanding of how things work.

[Pogo]

Someone emailed and asked so I thought I'd post it here.

That was me. Thank you Alton. I can see that I can get most of what I want this way. If my Spyder ever comes back from the shop, and if I then decide to keep her, I will take advantage of this to do my own servicing.

I'll put up a cable diagram and where you can get a cheap analyzer later

That would be useful. I gather that you use the CAN bus monitor for performance logging and the OBD monitor to look at service items, though there is some overlap.

Thanks again for bringing us up to date. Keep up the good work.

Cheers;

Pogo.