Spyderjerry and I just got done putting a Kumho Solus TA11 on the rear of my F3s. For the life of us we could not get the belt to keep tracking properly. After trying probably a dozen times with no luck we decided to see if something was going on with the front pulley. Well sure enough it wasn't just the stock Kendas that had given up the ghost. Yep this is what was left of the inside splines of the pulley. I am really glad that we caught this when we did as my wife and I are ryding our Spyders down to the Lake of the Ozarks for a week of smyle and this pulley would have made a mess of it.
Great big shout out to Spyderjerry for all of his help getting me back on the road safely!
Please everyone with an F3, check your pulley for rust from time to time. Don't do like I did and assume all is well.
My Spyder History
2013 ST Limited - 16,000 miles
2015 F3s - 48,500 miles
2016 F3t - TBD
Is BRP ever going to do the right thing, formally acknowledge this issue and take corrective action on it,
such as a paid service note? I recently read on a Spyder Facebook site that a call to BRP for support
resulted in a response that they were unaware of this issue at all!
Last edited by GaryTheBadger; 07-20-2018 at 08:07 PM.
Wow, that pulley says it's made in the USA. I didn't think we made anything any longer. I expected to read, 'Made in China or Sri Lanka or Bangladesh or Burkina Faso."
BRP is well aware of the front pulley problem on the F3’s. It happened to me as well. The pulley is made of a softer part than the shaft it bolts on to. This is to protect the shaft. Lamonster addressed this at the Deadwood three wheel rally last week. The current fix that BRP has come up with is a special locktite that is used on the splines of the pulley and shaft. Of course, this is done by the dealer when replacing the pulley. Only time will tell. The mystery is why this problem is so prevalent on the F3’s compared to other models.
2020 F3 Ltd
Spyderpops Bumpskid Spyderpops Brake/Run/Turn Signal LED's
Lamonster Garage LED Fog Lights and Headlights 2013 ST-S retired 1/9/16 at 25,061 miles
2015 F3S sold at 77,565 miles.
Wow, that pulley says it's made in the USA. I didn't think we made anything any longer. I expected to read, 'Made in China or Sri Lanka or Bangladesh or Burkina Faso."
The pulley itself is made in USA . the crap pressed in insert with the splines that is failing& assembled in Canada or Mexico
just wanted to point that out
2013 STL SE5 BLACK CURRANT
SpyderPop's: LED bumpskid
SmoothSpyder: dualmode back rest
T r * * LED:foam grip covers, Tricrings, FenderZ,
brake light strips, wide vue mirrors
Rivico SOMA modulation brake leds
sawblade mowhalk fender accents
minispyder dash toy
Lid lox
KradelLock
Pakitrack
GENSSI ELITE LED H4 headlights
FLO (Frunk Lid Organizer)
BRP fog lights, trailer hitch
SENA 20S EVO
The pulley itself is made in USA . the crap pressed in insert with the splines that is failing& assembled in Canada or Mexico
just wanted to point that out
The splines and the center section of the pulley are a one piece casting and of same material. Not a pressed in insert. The splines are machined and coated in the hub material.
When this same issue was happening 8-9 years ago BRP increased the torque on the retaining bolt. That seemed to eliminate further failure, assuming the pulley wasn't already damaged before re-torque. What's the torque spec on the F3 pulley bolt these days?
The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.
A question I have not seen about the front pulley spines is if the drive belt vibration is a major contributing factor to the wear of the splines. You are feeling that vibration and all that vibration has to go through both pulleys of the drive belt to get to you.
I wonder if, for preventative maintenance, you could remove the front sprocket and grease the splines lightly with heavy bearing grease?
Originally Posted by bboley
Hello All,
Spyderjerry and I just got done putting a Kumho Solus TA11 on the rear of my F3s. For the life of us we could not get the belt to keep tracking properly. After trying probably a dozen times with no luck we decided to see if something was going on with the front pulley. Well sure enough it wasn't just the stock Kendas that had given up the ghost. Yep this is what was left of the inside splines of the pulley. I am really glad that we caught this when we did as my wife and I are ryding our Spyders down to the Lake of the Ozarks for a week of smyle and this pulley would have made a mess of it.
Great big shout out to Spyderjerry for all of his help getting me back on the road safely!
Please everyone with an F3, check your pulley for rust from time to time. Don't do like I did and assume all is well.
You could remove the pulley, check the splines, clean very well with parts cleaner. The get 348 loctite shaft retainer and apply to splines. Either buy a new bolt or use red loctite on bolt. Checked dealer for update on torque, they found none.
Thanks again for all of your help on this "project" Spyderjerry!
Originally Posted by SpyderJerry
You could remove the pulley, check the splines, clean very well with parts cleaner. The get 348 loctite shaft retainer and apply to splines. Either buy a new bolt or use red loctite on bolt. Checked dealer for update on torque, they found none.
My Spyder History
2013 ST Limited - 16,000 miles
2015 F3s - 48,500 miles
2016 F3t - TBD
When this same issue was happening 8-9 years ago BRP increased the torque on the retaining bolt. That seemed to eliminate further failure, assuming the pulley wasn't already damaged before re-torque. What's the torque spec on the F3 pulley bolt these days?
Increased torque on the bolt will have NO impact on these straight cut splines. The bolt torque is applied to the end of the shaft which is flush to slightly proud of the pulley when installed. They are not tapered splines. As long as the bolt does not back off and allow the pulley to walk sideways, its done all it can. All engine torque is transmitted to the pulley through the splines, not the bolt.
The issue is spline fretting. BRP has recommended a loctite product specific for spline shaft installations that removes the movement completely and has shown promise in solving this problem.
Just FYI, I finally got bit by this problem myself at 26,000 miles. Pulley is still stuck on the shaft and puller and heat has not released it. Flange snapped where puller was clamped. Dealer and BRP are trying to determine 'what now' to get it off without destroying parts that require an engine tear down....
Is BRP ever going to do the right thing, formally acknowledge this issue and take corrective action on it,
such as a paid service note? I recently read on a Spyder Facebook site that a call to BRP for support
resulted in a response that they were unaware of this issue at all!
Yeap! That's BRP for you. Always denying everything. Just like the belt vibration issue. I harass them soooooo much, they finally agreed to install a belt tensioner under the warranty. No charge to me. We all have to do that and may be, just may be, they'll provide service and take care of their customer.
Increased torque on the bolt will have NO impact on these straight cut splines. The bolt torque is applied to the end of the shaft which is flush to slightly proud of the pulley when installed. They are not tapered splines. As long as the bolt does not back off and allow the pulley to walk sideways, its done all it can. All engine torque is transmitted to the pulley through the splines, not the bolt.
The issue is spline fretting. BRP has recommended a loctite product specific for spline shaft installations that removes the movement completely and has shown promise in solving this problem.
Just FYI, I finally got bit by this problem myself at 26,000 miles. Pulley is still stuck on the shaft and puller and heat has not released it. Flange snapped where puller was clamped. Dealer and BRP are trying to determine 'what now' to get it off without destroying parts that require an engine tear down....
The same thing happened to us as we tried to get the bad pulley off. The problem with mine was that the pulley needed to be turned so that what was left of the splines on the pulley lined up with the groves on the shaft. As soon as we got the splines and grooves lined up it popped right off with the puller. We ended up putting the puller on the back side of the pulley after the front flange broke off.
I was lucky my pulley could be turned by hand, if the pulley is tight on the shaft maybe you could put a screw driver or something in the belt groove of the pulley and hit it with a hammer to break it free. Good luck
Last edited by bboley; 07-22-2018 at 07:39 AM.
My Spyder History
2013 ST Limited - 16,000 miles
2015 F3s - 48,500 miles
2016 F3t - TBD
Increased torque on the bolt will have NO impact on these straight cut splines. The bolt torque is applied to the end of the shaft which is flush to slightly proud of the pulley when installed. <snip
WOW that's utterly alarming! If that is the case then the bolt does nothing at all apart from stopping the pulley falling off - earlier. On the V-twins the pulley is proud of the shaft, meaning the clamping force (term used in BRP s/bulletin) of a tighter bolt locks the pulley & shaft together, preventing relative movement and thus wear - end of problem.
If what you say is true, and I don't doubt it, these failures will be repeated time and again - and we're already seeing that reported on some unfortunate owners' trikes.
How could such a design flaw be possible? Oh yes - it's a Spyder.
The best substitute for brains & knowledge is....................silence.
Increased torque on the bolt will have NO impact on these straight cut splines. The bolt torque is applied to the end of the shaft which is flush to slightly proud of the pulley when installed. They are not tapered splines. As long as the bolt does not back off and allow the pulley to walk sideways, its done all it can. All engine torque is transmitted to the pulley through the splines, not the bolt.
The issue is spline fretting. BRP has recommended a loctite product specific for spline shaft installations that removes the movement completely and has shown promise in solving this problem.
Just FYI, I finally got bit by this problem myself at 26,000 miles. Pulley is still stuck on the shaft and puller and heat has not released it. Flange snapped where puller was clamped. Dealer and BRP are trying to determine 'what now' to get it off without destroying parts that require an engine tear down....
Belt on, bolt out, place a Penny on the end of the shaft, install the puller, snug puller. Fire the motor, while in gear hold brake, and shift back and forth from 1 to R. When the splines on some of the aircraft syuff gets stuck because they failed to lubricate the splines, we do similar to release them. Yours may be wedged on, and like the other guy said, it may not budge until it is aligned.
You may even want a second person tightening the puller slightly each bump of the shifter.
Be careful if you spray loose juice into the splines, some of that stuff attacks rubber. Probably best a light lube to release it like motor oil or a good soak of WD.
If it does not release, carefully cut the pulley off.
Belt on, bolt out, place a Penny on the end of the shaft, install the puller, snug puller. Fire the motor, while in gear hold brake, and shift back and forth from 1 to R. When the splines on some of the aircraft syuff gets stuck because they failed to lubricate the splines, we do similar to release them. Yours may be wedged on, and like the other guy said, it may not budge until it is aligned.
You may even want a second person tightening the puller slightly each bump of the shifter.
Be careful if you spray loose juice into the splines, some of that stuff attacks rubber. Probably best a light lube to release it like motor oil or a good soak of WD.
If it does not release, carefully cut the pulley off.
Great idea on the rocking.
When the flange snapped, I decided I was doing more harm than good and the bike is still under warranty so took it to the dealer and told them what I had done. They were pretty good about it, I also gave them the new pulley, bolt and loctite 648.
I will suggest this to them if they do not have the pulley off by when I speak with them tues evening.
When the flange snapped, I decided I was doing more harm than good and the bike is still under warranty so took it to the dealer and told them what I had done. They were pretty good about it, I also gave them the new pulley, bolt and loctite 648.
I will suggest this to them if they do not have the pulley off by when I speak with them tues evening.
Did you get the red dust beforehand? Had you put anything else on it. Like a moly lube?
You could remove the pulley, check the splines, clean very well with parts cleaner. The get 348 loctite shaft retainer and apply to splines. Either buy a new bolt or use red loctite on bolt. Checked dealer for update on torque, they found none.
Thanks..you would have thought that, with CanAm's obsession with putting self-locking compounds and locktite on just about every nut and bolt on their machines, they would have applied locktite spline retainer to that shaft. Probably will on their newest machines.
WOW that's utterly alarming! If that is the case then the bolt does nothing at all apart from stopping the pulley falling off - earlier. On the V-twins the pulley is proud of the shaft, meaning the clamping force (term used in BRP s/bulletin) of a tighter bolt locks the pulley & shaft together, preventing relative movement and thus wear - end of problem.
If what you say is true, and I don't doubt it, these failures will be repeated time and again - and we're already seeing that reported on some unfortunate owners' trikes.
How could such a design flaw be possible? Oh yes - it's a Spyder.
Could be worse..See SlingShot swing arm, shaft-and-rear end failures.
I was thinking of going ahead and pulling off the sprocket on my F3 with 2000 miles to prevent this issue, and installing the loctite shaft compound. If the sprocket isn't seized, do I still need a puller? Thanks.