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  1. #1
    Very Active Member ulflyer's Avatar
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    Default Has BRP Fixed the DESS Modules?

    Talking with the Tech who installed mine yesterday, he noted that when replacing earlier modules, as he did on mine, he had to REPROGRAM both keys with BUDS otherwise the ignition wouldn't work; however, lately reprogramming the keys is no longer required. He pointed out that something had been changed but he didn't know what.

    Hopefully, those of us who got DESS modules recently, and those about to get them, will not have any further failures.

    Might it have been some sort of BUDS update? Time will tell.
    2014 RT SE (Sold Aug 16 after purchasing a Slingshot)
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  2. #2
    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    It is my understanding that 2014 and later that reprogramming was not required, after changing out the DESS, since the key code was stored in the ECM. So your tech should never had to reprogram.

    2018 F3 LIMITED

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    Very Active Member ulflyer's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=billybovine;1028936]It is my understanding that 2014 and later that reprogramming was not required, after changing out the DESS, since the key code was stored in the ECM. So your tech should never had to reprogram.[/QUOTE

    You may well be right...I have no idea. I thought he said, but wouldn't bet any money on it, that he had tried earlier ones and they wouldn't start without the programming. There was
    a whole lot of chatter going back and forth among several of us so I may not have heard it right. Maybe I just want to think they've got it figured out and things are ok now.
    2014 RT SE (Sold Aug 16 after purchasing a Slingshot)
    2016.5 Slingshot (traded for Vanderhall fall of 2017)
    2018 Vanderhall (traded for '18 Slingshot spring of 2018)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ulflyer View Post
    Talking with the Tech who installed mine yesterday, he noted that when replacing earlier modules, as he did on mine, he had to REPROGRAM both keys with BUDS otherwise the ignition wouldn't work; however, lately reprogramming the keys is no longer required. He pointed out that something had been changed but he didn't know what.
    Prior to 2014 the DESS module did the authentication of the key and then told the ECM it was OK to start the bike. So if you changed the DESS module, you had to reprogram the keys so the new DESS module would recognize them. For 2014, that all changed. The DESS module is now just a pass-through system -- it just receives the key information from the key and passes it on to the ECM. The ECM does the authentication and then starts the bike. The 2014 manual emphasizes this strongly that no reprogramming is required when changing the DESS module. Just plug it in and everything will work.

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  5. #5
    Very Active Member IGETAROUND's Avatar
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    Well for what it's worth; they replaced BOTH the ignition switch and the DESS module after mine had failed the second time.

    I certainly hope that they got it correct as I leave for Spyderquest on 9/5, return 9/22 then take off for Houston on 10/3 for a week long conference and return back home on 10/13. Would not be a happy camper if it went down again.
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  6. #6
    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IGETAROUND View Post
    Well for what it's worth; they replaced BOTH the ignition switch and the DESS module after mine had failed the second time.

    I certainly hope that they got it correct as I leave for Spyderquest on 9/5, return 9/22 then take off for Houston on 10/3 for a week long conference and return back home on 10/13. Would not be a happy camper if it went down again.
    Replacing the ignition switch seems like a useless thing to do. Would you know why they did that?

    2018 F3 LIMITED

  7. #7
    Active Member kbwitt's Avatar
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    Default pull key out and reinsert

    BRP hates this as much as we do. They have been working hard with technicians find the solution. They might have it, I forgot the technology talk I was told. Mean time if you get the DESS CODE take key out completely and reinsert.
    Kenn

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    Default DESS error

    Tried the method of removing key, reinserting, getting second key, still no luck.
    applied ice gel pack to ignition and that cooled the unit enough that the bike restarted

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybovine View Post
    Replacing the ignition switch seems like a useless thing to do. Would you know why they did that?
    The antenna that receives the signal from the key is part of the ignition switch. The one hope that I have is that BRP did something with the antenna. It's part of the ignition switch. When Deanna's failed the second time, BRP said to replace the DESS module and the switch. The parts that came thru were the updated 2014 module and an ignition switch with a part number that is not yet listed. It's not the 2014 switch and not the 2015 switch. I'd like to think it's a brand new part that's not yet listed in the parts manuals. But that's just blind hope on my part. Could be they changed something else in the switch that has nothing to do with the antenna. Given that BRP is paying the bill, I'd like to think they had a reason for replacing both items. Or... they are just grasping at straws. Wish they'd tell us what is going on.

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  10. #10
    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gypsy_100 View Post
    The antenna that receives the signal from the key is part of the ignition switch. The one hope that I have is that BRP did something with the antenna. It's part of the ignition switch. When Deanna's failed the second time, BRP said to replace the DESS module and the switch. The parts that came thru were the updated 2014 module and an ignition switch with a part number that is not yet listed. It's not the 2014 switch and not the 2015 switch. I'd like to think it's a brand new part that's not yet listed in the parts manuals. But that's just blind hope on my part. Could be they changed something else in the switch that has nothing to do with the antenna. Given that BRP is paying the bill, I'd like to think they had a reason for replacing both items. Or... they are just grasping at straws. Wish they'd tell us what is going on.
    The antenna is nothing but a coil of wire in the shape of doughnut around the barrel of the ignition switch. No resistors, capacitors, transistors, just wire. If there is continuity it should work.

    2018 F3 LIMITED

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dulcimertime View Post
    Tried the method of removing key, reinserting, getting second key, still no luck.
    applied ice gel pack to ignition and that cooled the unit enough that the bike restarted
    If an ice gel pack doesn't work for you in the future, try hopping on one leg with the second key balanced on your head while doing 3 complete circles.....[emoji12] [emoji38]

  12. #12
    Pragmatic Member Pampurrs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewNJ View Post
    If an ice gel pack doesn't work for you in the future, try hopping on one leg with the second key balanced on your head while doing 3 complete circles.....[emoji12] [emoji38]



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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by billybovine View Post
    The antenna is nothing but a coil of wire in the shape of doughnut around the barrel of the ignition switch. No resistors, capacitors, transistors, just wire. If there is continuity it should work.
    I agree. But given that there is a problem somewhere in the chain of receiving the signal, transmitting it by hardwire to the DESS, forwarding it on to the ECM and the ECM processing it, who knows? I said it was blind hope and that's what it is. I could speculate that they moved the antenna slightly for better reception of what is likely a very weak signal, maybe they found a way to shield it from interference, who knows? Maybe the antenna or the lead wires get damaged during factory installation on random bikes and result in intermittent incomplete circuits. All kinds of speculation is possible as to why BRP would pay for and specify replacing the switch. Unfortunately we don't know; only BRP does. Unless they are just replacing everything because they don't know what else to do.

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    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gypsy_100 View Post
    Unless they are just replacing everything because they don't know what else to do.

    2018 F3 LIMITED

  15. #15
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ulflyer View Post
    Talking with the Tech who installed mine yesterday, he noted that when replacing earlier modules, as he did on mine, he had to REPROGRAM both keys with BUDS otherwise the ignition wouldn't work; however, lately reprogramming the keys is no longer required. He pointed out that something had been changed but he didn't know what.

    Hopefully, those of us who got DESS modules recently, and those about to get them, will not have any further failures.

    Might it have been some sort of BUDS update? Time will tell.
    The first time that I get the D.E.S.S. key code, my dealership REPROGRAMED both keys and replaced the D.E.S.S. module on (7/17/2015). Last week Friday I had the D.E.S.S module and the ignition Switch replaced( they also changed the rear trunk key lock, and changed the keys to fit the new ignition switch)
    Also, read my thread" D.E.S.S. KEY CODE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and read post # 1 the 3rd paragraph. Deanna
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  16. #16
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kbwitt View Post
    BRP hates this as much as we do. They have been working hard with technicians find the solution. They might have it, I forgot the technology talk I was told. Mean time if you get the DESS CODE take key out completely and reinsert.
    Kenn
    Also, take a picture show your dealer. Read my thread on D.E.S.S. KEY CODE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just went thru the process. Deanna
    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac
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    Dee,
    So far; so good with the fix?

  18. #18
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=ulflyer;1028991]
    Quote Originally Posted by billybovine View Post
    It is my understanding that 2014 and later that reprogramming was not required, after changing out the DESS, since the key code was stored in the ECM. So your tech should never had to reprogram.[/QUOTE

    You may well be right...I have no idea. I thought he said, but wouldn't bet any money on it, that he had tried earlier ones and they wouldn't start without the programming. There was
    a whole lot of chatter going back and forth among several of us so I may not have heard it right. Maybe I just want to think they've got it figured out and things are ok now.
    Read my thread" D.E.S.S. KEY CODE" by Deanna777. My dealership had to reprogram both of my keys,( 7/17/15) and replace the D.E.S.S. module. On the above thread read post # 3, 22.

    Then read" D.E.S.S. KEY CODE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! by Deanna777. Last week the my dealership replaced the D.E.S.S. module again, and replaced ignition switch, and changed the rear trunk key lock. If you have any questions send me a pm. Deanna
    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac
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  19. #19
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Denman View Post
    Dee,
    So far; so good with the fix?
    Bob, So I have not had the D.E.S.S. error after the fix. If I get the D.E.S.S. key code I will post on my thread that I started. Time will tell. Deanna
    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac
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  20. #20
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IGETAROUND View Post
    Well for what it's worth; they replaced BOTH the ignition switch and the DESS module after mine had failed the second time.

    I certainly hope that they got it correct as I leave for Spyderquest on 9/5, return 9/22 then take off for Houston on 10/3 for a week long conference and return back home on 10/13. Would not be a happy camper if it went down again.
    That is what my dealership did changed BOTH the ignition switch and the D.E.S.S. module , this is my second time also. Good luck and I hope you don't get stranded. Deanna
    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac
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  21. #21
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    Default DESS Code Problem

    Hi all,

    I have a 2014 RTS with 4,900 miles and the darn DESS code came up. I was stranded for approx. 20 minutes. I pulled the key out and walked away and then came back to bike and it started. I called dealer today and they initially said they could not do anything unless the code was present. I said that doesn't make sense. They then asked me to continue riding it until the error happens again, then take a picture of the error code. Well someone posted a pic of the error code so I took a picture from this site and I will be dropping off my machine today to get it fixed showing them the pictures. Unbelievable !!!! This is a huge problem and it seems no one cares to much about it. Plus they are telling me its 3-5 days to even get a new module in. There goes another week of no riding.

    Bumblebee

  22. #22
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    I'd tell them, " You've got the proof... order the parts, and I'll bring in the bike when they arrive."

  23. #23
    Very Active Member ulflyer's Avatar
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    Calm yourself Bumblebee, and keep on riding. Very few have
    been stranded with it not ever starting. Usually it will start; flick the switch off/on rapidly, and if that don't work, pull key out, or wait a few mins. One of these techniques will likely work.
    2014 RT SE (Sold Aug 16 after purchasing a Slingshot)
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  24. #24
    Very Active Member Deanna777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sknutowicz View Post
    Hi all,

    I have a 2014 RTS with 4,900 miles and the darn DESS code came up. I was stranded for approx. 20 minutes. I pulled the key out and walked away and then came back to bike and it started. I called dealer today and they initially said they could not do anything unless the code was present. I said that doesn't make sense. They then asked me to continue riding it until the error happens again, then take a picture of the error code. Well someone posted a pic of the error code so I took a picture from this site and I will be dropping off my machine today to get it fixed showing them the pictures. Unbelievable !!!! This is a huge problem and it seems no one cares to much about it. Plus they are telling me its 3-5 days to even get a new module in. There goes another week of no riding.

    Bumblebee
    I( Deanna777) was the person that took a picture of the D.E.S.S. key code that I got on my 2014RTS-SE6. Also, I started a thread "D.E.S.S. KEY CODE ON A 2014RTS-SE6" & "D.E.S.S. KEY CODE AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!"

    The first time that I got the D.E.S.S. key code error, my dealer had the D.E.S.S. module @ their dealership in 2 days.

    Then the 2nd time that I got the D.E.S.S. key code, my dealership had the D.E.S.S. module & Ignition Switch in 2 days. ( I took my spyder on Aug. 28th.) I would ask your dealership to order the parts( may be have the parts overnighted) and contact you when the parts come in. Then you won't be down for a week with no riding. Keep us posted. Deanna
    2014RTS-SE6 Cognac
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  25. #25
    Active Member GeorgiaBill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ulflyer View Post
    Calm yourself Bumblebee, and keep on riding. Very few have
    been stranded with it not ever starting. Usually it will start; flick the switch off/on rapidly, and if that don't work, pull key out, or wait a few mins. One of these techniques will likely work.
    I am so pleased to hear this. I just got my Spyder and have been reluctant to venture beyond the AAA towing distance.
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