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  1. #1
    Very Active Member jwulf74's Avatar
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    Default 998 Cat/Primary Mullfer Removal and Bypass Install

    Here is my experience with the Primary Muffler Delete on our 2011 RT's. I did mine first and hers went much faster... I will post relevant pics in subsequent posts in this thread.

    998 Cat Removal/Cat Delete Install

    Left and Right are as you are SITTING on the Spyder.

    Step 1. Remove the body panels on both sides. Finless has a tip in his battery replacement video on how to keep the mirrors and upper panels on while still being able to remove the lower side body panels.

    Step 2. Remove the 3 - 10mm bolts holding the lower Cat support arms (the 2 with the rubber grommets). It is much easier removing the bolts and freeing the bracket than to try to fight the cat to slide out of the grommets with the bracket still bolted to the Spyder.

    Step 3. Loosen the pipe clamps on each side where the cat pipe join the headers with a 10mm wrench, socket or whatever you can get in there. Loosen them up enough so that they slide down the pipe.

    Step 4. Remove the spring from the right pipe. There are likely several good ways of doing it. I used a Vise-Grips to grab the top hook on the spring and simply pulled it up and off.

    Step 5. Remove the 15mm bolt and nut that holds the muffler on. You will need a socket and wrench or 2 wrenches for this. It will be a good idea to support it with something like a motorcycle/atv jack. But it will not just drop free yet anyway. There should be 2 washers that drop free when you pull the bolt outÖ Be sure to watch how they are aligned. There is one that goes in between the muffler and the frame of the Spyder and the other goes in between the nut and the frame. (Assuming that all dealers install them the same way anyway.)

    You might be wondering about the 2 bolts and springs that hold the cat and muffler togetherÖ I will get to that in a couple of steps. At this point, the cat and muffler will be coming out as one unit.

    Step 6. Now all of the bolts and clamps will be off or loose. The cat will need a little bit of persuasion to slide off of the header pipes. Watch the loose pipe clamp on the left side as it will want to hang up on the belt. Pull, push and wiggle it around and they should eventually slide free. The weight and leverage of the muffler still attached to the cat will help in getting the cat to drop free.

    Step 7. With the 2 pipes now free, you will see that the cat and muffler are still hanging on something. There is a big rubber hanger in the middle of the Spyder that you can see from the left side. I removed the jack from underneath the muffler and kept a towel under the muffler to keep it from getting marked up and so the cat and muffler are hanging free. From the left side you will need to pull the rubber hanger towards the left while pushing the cat and muffler to the right. It will take some work, but it will slide out and drop everything free. Now you can pull the muffler and cat out from the right side again keeping a towel or blanket underneath the muffler to keep it from getting scratched.

    Step 8. Now for those bolts, nuts and springs holding the cat and muffler together. I am told that BRP put Red Loctite on them and require something like 480 degrees to get the Loctite to loosen up. I donít think that is a good idea to try to heat it up like that while it is on the bike as there is too much plastic and other things there that you donít want to burn up. But now that you have it all off in one unit, heating it up to remove the bolts is one option. I think it was a 13mm nut and it is a Hex head bolt (not a Torx Ė I made that mistake before I found out about the Loctite. I managed to get 1 bolt out but stripped the other horribly.)

    The other option, which is what I did, is just to cut the 2 bolts with a hacksaw (or your favorite cutting tool). The springs are somewhat loaded so I just put a rag over the spring to keep it from shooting too far. The hex head bolts seem to be pretty soft which is why the heads strip easily and why I opted to cut them.

    Step 9. Now that the muffler and cat are apart, use a flat putty knife to carefully pry the doughnut type gasket off of the end of the cat and put it on the new cat delete.

    Step 10. Take the cat support bracket with the 2 grommets off of the old cat and put it on the new delete. Be sure to watch the orientation of the bracket.

    Step 11. Take the 2 pipe clamps off of the old cat and put it on the new one. Be sure to watch the orientation. While they really can go on in any orientation, it can be tricky to tighten them if they go on in a certain way.

    Step 12. Put the delete under the Spyder and hang it from the big rubber hanger.

    Step 13. Put the 2 brand new gaskets on the header pipes. Do not put them into the cat delete. I did that on one and it did not go together well and will need to redo itÖ If you put them on the header pipes first, it should go together much better.

    Step 14. With the cat on the hanger and the new gaskets in place, align the Right portion of the delete and the header and carefully push it together as far as you can. It will not likely be much, but should be enough to hold it in place. At this point, I put the jack under the right side of the delete to prevent it from popping off.

    Step 15. Now, go to the left side and carefully work the delete and clamp up past the belt and align it to the header. I found that header on the left has a little bit of play. I put my foot on the muffler end of the delete so I could push it a bit and provide some torque so I could pull the header and delete into alignment to be able to push the delete up onto the left header. The reason for this is that the big rubber hanger needs to stretch and be torqued a bit so that the delete can be moved to the proper alignment. Now with both pipes connected up, I used the jack to apply pressure to the left and right sides of the delete to press it up into place.

    Step 16. With the jack pressing the pipe into place, align the bottom bracket with the bolt holes and put the 3 bolts back into place. Now slide the pipe clamps into place and tighten them.

    Step17. With the clamps and bracket now in place you can remove the jack. Using the vise-grips (or whatever method you choose) you can now hook the bottom of the spring in place and pull it up and hook the top part into place.

    Step 18. Using the jack for support, hang the muffler back in place with the big bolt and washers. Align the muffler and cat. Leave it just a little loose until the bolts between the muffler and delete are in place.
    I used 2 normal socket type bolts, that were the same diameter but a little longer, and a couple of washers and new nuts to put the muffler and cat back together. A little bit longer than the original is good to have as the original bolts recess into the plate but the new bolt and washer will not. Tighten the new bolts and nuts up and then you can tighten the 15mm muffler mount bolt up and remove the support jack.

    Step 19. Roll the Spyder outside and start it up and let it idle for 10 minutes. This supposedly lets the computer relearn the new airflow through the exhaust.

    Step 20. Go for a ryde!
    2017 Can Am Commander Limited
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  2. #2
    Very Active Member jwulf74's Avatar
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    Default Pics

    Here is a pic of my new bolts installed between the Cat and Muffler. The springs are on the backside.



    Here is a pic of the old bolts on her RT. I think the dealer put the springs on the wrong side. On mine they were on the other side of the bracket.

    Here is a pic of my incorrect install of the slip joint gasket on the right side. I put it in the delete instead of the on header pipe first and it mushed it down inside. I will be redoing it as soon as the new gasket gets in.

    Here is the Left side gasket properly installed.

    Here is the lower bracket for Step 2.
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    2017 Can Am Commander Limited
    2012 Cadillac CTS-V Black Diamond
    2011 RT-S Viper Red
    2010 RT622 - Black

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    What was purpose of taking the cat and old muffler apart after you took it down as a unit?
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    Very Active Member jwulf74's Avatar
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    Sorry. I don't have notifications on for this post and just saw you asked a question.

    The muffler and cat are bolted together and it was easier to drop the 2 to get them apart in order to remove the cat and install the bypass pipe.
    2017 Can Am Commander Limited
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    2011 RT-S Viper Red
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwulf74 View Post
    Sorry. I don't have notifications on for this post and just saw you asked a question.

    The muffler and cat are bolted together and it was easier to drop the 2 to get them apart in order to remove the cat and install the bypass pipe.
    You know I just assumed that you were installing a new muffler too. Of course you have to pull the muffler off to put it back on Spyder!!! My bad and thank you for replying.
    Just got my bypass and akrapovic and I guess I will pick up stainless bolt/nut from homedepot. now what to do about baffle or no baffle...
    Last edited by aka1004; 07-08-2018 at 04:43 PM.
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    Very Active Member DGoebel's Avatar
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    Jwulf74 and any others that have done a Cat Delete and Akrapovic Sport silencer on their 998 V-Twin. After doing mine I get a lot of popping and backfire when engine braking/decelerating. If I just brake and let the bike downshift, it doesn't, but I don't ride like that often. I've read where it might be one of the header to Y pipe gaskets, and having done mine alone, I don't relish the thought of replacing those ..... gaskets...

    How many with a Cat delete and Akrapovic/other final muffler on a 998 get the popping on engine braking?

    (Please, you 3 cylinder guys, don't pipe in<G>, I know there's a baffle for the triples, Lamonster's Jacob says nada for the twins.)
    Safe Rides,
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGoebel View Post
    Jwulf74 and any others that have done a Cat Delete and Akrapovic Sport silencer on their 998 V-Twin. After doing mine I get a lot of popping and backfire when engine braking/decelerating. If I just brake and let the bike downshift, it doesn't, but I don't ride like that often. I've read where it might be one of the header to Y pipe gaskets, and having done mine alone, I don't relish the thought of replacing those ..... gaskets...

    How many with a Cat delete and Akrapovic/other final muffler on a 998 get the popping on engine braking?

    (Please, you 3 cylinder guys, don't pipe in<G>, I know there's a baffle for the triples, Lamonster's Jacob says nada for the twins.)
    You need more fuel!!!
    My guess would be that free flow exhaust is making Spyder run lean.
    Iím expecting same thing will happen when I put mine on.
    Ive debated over power commanders or ecu flash and Ive decided to ride to Shreveport(US dealer for monster fuel) and get the ecu flashed but canít do it till winter so Iím just gonna use a potentiometer tapped into ambient temp sensor to trick Spyder into thinking itís colder than it really is so it will feed more fuel, for now.
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    Very Active Member DGoebel's Avatar
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    OK, I'll bite, Why would more fuel stop the backfiring/popping on Deceleration? I think I've always believed that excess fuel in the exhaust was igniting in the pipes to cause the backfire.
    I quote FixmyHog here (Cause who hasn't heard a Harley pop on decel)
    "Popping on deceleration is due to unburnt fuel being ignited in the exhaust. The reason you do not hear this on a bike with a stock exhaust is due to the baffling of the stock exhaust. ... This fresh air makes the exhaust hotter (think of letting a fire have more oxygen) which aids in the combustion of the unburnt fuel."
    This is why I thought maybe I damaged one of the front gasket's which would allow fresh air into the Y pipe at the header // Y pipe junction, which then caused the popping.
    I did disconnect the battery when installing the Y-Pipe (Cat Delete) and then let it idle for 15 minutes or more after completing the install, supposedly helping to reset the ECU for the new free flowing exhaust.
    Safe Rides,
    David and Sharon Goebel
    Both Retired USAF Veterans
    2013 RT Limited, Pearl White
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    Quote Originally Posted by DGoebel View Post
    OK, I'll bite, Why would more fuel stop the backfiring/popping on Deceleration? I think I've always believed that excess fuel in the exhaust was igniting in the pipes to cause the backfire.
    I quote FixmyHog here (Cause who hasn't heard a Harley pop on decel)
    "Popping on deceleration is due to unburnt fuel being ignited in the exhaust. The reason you do not hear this on a bike with a stock exhaust is due to the baffling of the stock exhaust. ... This fresh air makes the exhaust hotter (think of letting a fire have more oxygen) which aids in the combustion of the unburnt fuel."
    This is why I thought maybe I damaged one of the front gasket's which would allow fresh air into the Y pipe at the header // Y pipe junction, which then caused the popping.
    I did disconnect the battery when installing the Y-Pipe (Cat Delete) and then let it idle for 15 minutes or more after completing the install, supposedly helping to reset the ECU for the new free flowing exhaust.
    Backfire at decel is commonly known thing that happens after installing free flow exhaust due to lean fuel mixture caused by free flow exhaust.
    I m not the one to explain how a internal combustion engine works but this matter has been discussed many many times in 1st few years of spyderlovers and its been stated by many “in the know”members that free flow muffler can and will cause popping at decel.
    I personally had 1st hand experience with 2 aftermarket mufflers popping only to be cured with more fuel(recommended by members) so I was expecting it will happen with bypass/akrapovic combo as well.
    OP seems to have kept stock muffler so he may not be having the issue.
    Last edited by aka1004; 07-08-2018 at 06:39 PM.
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  10. #10
    Very Active Member DGoebel's Avatar
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    So I take it outside of remapping my ECU (a total bear to get to on a '13) there's nothing I can simply change to correct this. I do like the sound of this combination...
    Could you point me to any of those earlier threads, I've searched but maybe I need to change my search words.
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    Power commander and two brothers juice box is an option If they are still made or may be able to find them on eBay or other online vendor.

    I’m gonna contact big city thunder and see if they have a baffle that fits bypass for 998 engine but it will be awhile before I get a chance take the measurement of the bypass. They have different sizes but need exact inside diameter. May be lamonster can help with exact measurements.

    Below is what I found on common cause of backfing caused by lean mixture with free flow exhaust. Not enough fuel/too much air, when throttle is closed suddenly.


    Backfires in Exhaust

    Note:

    It is normal for many high performance exhaust systems to moderately backfire or pop when the throttle is closed from mid-to-high rpm. In fact, one should expect a well-tuned high performance engine to "pop" and "crackle" when the throttle is closed at high rpm.

    The popping is a result of the air/fuel mixture becoming very lean when the throttle is closed and the engine is rotating well above idle speed. It is also necessary that the exhaust system have rather open mufflers.

    Why This (normally) Happens:

    1) When the throttle valve is in the idle position, fuel does not flow out of the main system (needle, needle jet, main jet). Fuel is only delivered to the engine by the pilot (idle) system.
    2) The combined effect of the closed throttle and elevated engine rpm is to create a fairly strong vacuum in the intake manifold. This vacuum, in turn, causes a high air flow rate through the small gap formed by the throttle valve and carburetor throat.
    3) Under these conditions the pilot (idle) system cannot deliver enough fuel to create a normal, combustible air/fuel ratio. The mixture becomes too lean to burn reliably in the combustion chamber. It gets sent into the exhaust system unburned and collects there.
    4) When the odd firing of the lean mixture does occur, it is sent, still burning, into the exhaust system where it sometimes ignites the raw mixture that has collected ---- the exhaust then pops or backfires.
    5) Completely stock Harleys do not do this until open-end mufflers, such as the popular Screamin' Eagle slip-ons, are installed. The exhaust must be both free-flowing and have an open exit for the popping to occur.
    Last edited by aka1004; 07-08-2018 at 09:03 PM.
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    Very Active Member DGoebel's Avatar
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    Thanks aka1004! That helps and I've been considering the same regarding the Big City Thunder baffles. Going up to the garage and pulling my Akrapovic to measure the V-twin cat delete outlet.
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    0507hrb_bigcity03_z.jpgno problem. there used to be members here that knew everything about everything and can answer anything you asked but most of them seem to have disappeared.
    any way, this is the model I want and it would be so easy to make if I had a welder or know someone...
    I think I will try to find someone to weld different size stainless washers to head of a bolt...then install it directly on bypass, if they don't have the right size.


    imagesfyc465h6_e72b8bbc298ed793cd4d9330100c3520b7a9b24f.jpg
    Last edited by aka1004; 07-08-2018 at 10:03 PM.
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    Very Active Member DGoebel's Avatar
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    My cat delete pipe measures 2 1/16 at it's outlet, Though there's a bend right at the connector that might make any longer baffle not fit in. I was able to slip a 2 inch hole saw into the outlet and work it past the bend, though then it was loose inside the straight section.
    My Akrapovic sport silencer however has more like a 2 1/4 inlet.
    Safe Rides,
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    B8A4995F-71F7-4AD1-9F5B-9DC7574F968B.jpegI’m leaning toward drilling a hole on bypass(will have to drill anyway if you bought a baffle)and put a thumb screw as described below. It makes a lot of sense that it is tunable to my liking, not what they set to.
    I read multiple people stating that reason big city thunder doesn’t show detailed pic of their baffle, at least one I was looking at is that it is so simple and easy to replicate and I do agree. Drill a hole, thumbscrew with nuts inside/outside of bypass pipe, done!

    By the way, this probably will not cure backfiring. You need more fuel and OP of this thread with stock muffler has backfire issue also. He posted he just holds the throttle open little bit to combat it.

    ********

    Back Pressure
    The most common part replaced on a new Harley-Davidson motorcycle is the exhaust system. Due to EPA regulations often times getting your bike to sound like a Harley means you need to make it louder. A common belief is that by reducing back pressure in the exhaust system you will automatically gain horsepower. Unfortunately this is not the case. With the proper fuel management system for a fuel injected engine or re-jetting in the case of a carbureted engine however the maximum horsepower will improve. Without proper tuning the more free flowing aftermarket exhaust will generally cause your engine to run lean and promptly lose 5-10% horsepower.

    There is however a difference between usable power and maximum horsepower. The maximum horsepower of two engines may be similar, but the horsepower torque curves may be different. The area under the horsepower and torque curves defines the "power" the engine produces. The more area that is under the curve, the more power your engine produces.

    A typical non-baffled aftermarket exhaust produces a horsepower curve that initially rises very slowly. As the RPMs start to rise above mid-range power, the curve begins to rise at increasing rate until maximum horsepower is achieved. Once RPMs have passed maximum horsepower, the curve drops off rapidly.

    If you are planning on running a non-baffled exhaust but would like to gain back some of your low end torque, there is some hope . Below is an extremely inexpensive trick that will give you back some low end torque and can even be tuned to meet the performance needs of the bike.

    STEP 1: We recommend purchasing a 1/4"x1" thumb screw which can readily purchased at any local hardware store for about $ 0.50 a piece. They work great. The "football" shaped head on the screws measure approximately 3/4" x 1/2" so they have about the same surface area as the 3/4" O.D. washer because of the lack of the hole. And they do not require any fabrication. Alternatively you can take a 3/4" outside diameter washer and weld it to the top of a 3/4" x 1/4" bolt.

    STEP 2: Drill a 1/4" hole about 1" inside your head pipe where your aftermarket exhaust slip on.

    STEP 3: Take the tunable baffle and place a 1/4" nut and a lock washer (away from the large washer). Now insert your tunable baffle into the exhaust pipe like the example below.



    You can tune the baffle by changing the angle of the thumbscrew or washer to the exhaust pipe. For maximum torque, the washer will be at 90 degree angle to the pipe. For maximum horsepower the washer will be parallel to the pipe.

    In a study given to Bike Tech by Gene P. Three runs were done. Run 5 was done with the thumbscrew 90 degrees to the pipe or perpendicular, Run 6 was done at a 45 degree angle and Run 7 was done parallel to the pipe.

    Run 5: Had the lowest horsepower, but the 2500-4000 RPM power was the highest. This is the RPM band that most riders spend their time riding.

    Run 6: Improves the 3000-4000 RPM horsepower drop over run 7 without any significant drop in maximum power.

    Run 7: Makes the most power, but has a huge hole in the power band just above 3000 RPMs. Since the thumbscrew is parallel to the pipe in this case, it has a very small profile and would be very similar to it not being there at all.

    The information for this article was gathered from nightrider.com's Bike Tech.
    Last edited by aka1004; 07-09-2018 at 08:50 PM.
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    Active Member denviola's Avatar
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    Default any available?

    Been looking around for a cat bypass for my 2012 RTL, not finding any in stock.
    ANy help?
    Thanks in advance.
    Denny
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    Quote Originally Posted by denviola View Post
    Been looking around for a cat bypass for my 2012 RTL, not finding any in stock.
    ANy help?
    Thanks in advance.
    Denny
    I think its wait for JT's for $250, buy spyderattitude's for $450 now or wait for someone to sell on the board.
    I got a new, now discontinued lamonster's from another member for $300 after posting a WTB on the board.
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    Anyone know the size of bolts to buy for the install if I strip or have to cut them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilpir View Post
    Anyone know the size of bolts to buy for the install if I strip or have to cut them?
    M8x75 is the stock size.
    I bought hex head M8x 80 stainless bolt/nut from Home Depot.
    5 mm difference was not a problem.
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    Thanx exactly what I needed to be prepared!

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka1004 View Post
    You know I just assumed that you were installing a new muffler too. Of course you have to pull the muffler off to put it back on Spyder!!! My bad and thank you for replying.
    Just got my bypass and akrapovic and I guess I will pick up stainless bolt/nut from homedepot. now what to do about baffle or no baffle...
    You got PM..Cheers

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    Very Active Member SPECTACUALR SPIDERMAN's Avatar
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    this may be a silly question but what is the purpose in the cat delete?

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