RT ACCIDENT

[Desert Spyder]

Thanks for the update. Continued prayers go out for Wayne and Sue, and also Herb and Kim.

I wouldn't assume that the group was in staggered formation. Many around here ride double file. It has caused a number of injuries or deaths, when a bike in the group has either swerved or slowed. Either way, this is a good lesson that a rider needs to be extra attentive during a group ride, and always maintain a sufficient interval to stop or take avoidance action. A rider with problems should signal, but that is not always safe or possible. It is the following rider's responsibility to avoid a collision.

Hey Scotty, answer a question for me: I've gotten into the habit in group ryding to keep the riders face in front of you in view in their mirror. This way you know that if you can see them, they can see you. But would you be at a safe distance away from that bike? Of course this would be at highway speeds.

[NancysToy]

Hey Scotty, answer a question for me: I've gotten into the habit in group ryding to keep the riders face in front of you in view in their mirror. This way you know that if you can see them, they can see you. But would you be at a safe distance away from that bike? Of course this would be at highway speeds.

I think that would depend a lot on the way your mirrors are adjusted, and what machine you are riding. Mirrors differ. You should be able to look over your shoulder and gauge whether the actual distance is sufficient, then correlate that to your mirror image. If I am riding lead, especially just as a pair, I will pick a landmark and do a count (one - one thousand, two - one thousand, etc.) tin the mirror, to gauge the distance of the person following, and adjust my speed accordingly.

[Firefly]

Thanks a bunch for the updates.

I had a feeling there was more going on here as the DPS would be hard pressed to move the bars like that.

Good reminder for all of us to do pre-ride inspections--- something I need to get better at for sure!

[Dudley]

Thank you for the update, Brian. Extend to them our concerns and prayers for a speedy recovery.

[Raptor]

Thanks a bunch for the updates.

I had a feeling there was more going on here as the DPS would be hard pressed to move the bars like that.

Good reminder for all of us to do pre-ride inspections--- something I need to get better at for sure!

Man I'm tellin ya, I think this is an excellent point and one that is worth a million bucks.

Ever since my license plate lens fell off, I now rattle off a mental check-list that involves tire condition and lug nuts, suspension/steering links, wiring checks, throttle operation, brake operation and depending on the interval fluid checks and air pressures as well. I even mount up and do a little up and down, side to side and see if I hear anything strange. In effect, I'm trying to take out of play as many things as I can that I can control. Electronics is what it is; not much you can do there. But it gives me a more confident feeling knowing that I at least did a check.

My continued prayers go out to the injured couples, especially Herb.

[bikeguy]

Thanks, Desert Spyder, for the update. Our prayers are certainly with both couples for their speedy and full recoveries. And I'll take both tragic incidents as a reminder to me to mechanically check everything I can regularly and to be especially careful when I ride with others.

Cotton

[chris56]

sorry to read this - good to hear this ryders come back on their feeds (and on their spyder) - personally i never had any problems like that ..
but I don`t think that on that low speed the steering is strong enough to do that .. (hopefully) there is another fault (missing nut or so) - which would give us a better feeling
best wishes from austria

[Bob Denman]

I think that would depend a lot on the way your mirrors are adjusted, and what machine you are riding. Mirrors differ. You should be able to look over your shoulder and gauge whether the actual distance is sufficient, then correlate that to your mirror image. If I am riding lead, especially just as a pair, I will pick a landmark and do a count (one - one thousand, two - one thousand, etc.) tin the mirror, to gauge the distance of the person following, and adjust my speed accordingly.

We always have had the following rider set the distance... I think that it's easier for them to set it because they're already looking forward anyway... It makes for less chance of a lead rider looking like in the mirror!

[NancysToy]

We always have had the following rider set the distance... I think that it's easier for them to set it because they're already looking forward anyway... It makes for less chance of a lead rider looking like in the mirror!

A lead rider has to check from time to time, as Doc says, to avoid losing the group or spreading them out too far. My wife is notorious for lagging behind, so I have gotten used to doing a count in my mirrors from time to time, to tighten things up. Usually I just use the information at the next stop to remind her to keep the gap consistent.

[boborgera]

A lead rider has to check from time to time, as Doc says, to avoid losing the group or spreading them out too far. My wife is notorious for lagging behind, so I have gotten used to doing a count in my mirrors from time to time, to tighten things up. Usually I just use the information at the next stop to remind her to keep the gap consistent.

Truthfully i haven't gone on a group ride since the late 60's early 70's.
Back then i was invincible. I figured if Charlie couldn't get me i could handle anything.
Now i just want to ride and not worry about what the bike in front or behind me is doing or not doing.
It's the same when i take someone out in my ATV's, i just take them in my Rhino,then i don't have to keep looking over my shoulder.
Just me i like riding at 75 percent, riding in group's you need 110 percent.

[DynamoBT]

All these comments about group ryding are really an eyeopener for me. I have little or no experience ryding in a group......two wheels or three.

Those individuals hurt in these accidents have my prayers and best wishes for recovery.

Let's face it, ryding is risky. The failure of equipment when you are on less than 4 wheels is much more dangerous to the ryder(s), and that's even when no other vehicle is involved. Add in the reality that no one seems to be paying attention when they drive anymore, and the truth becomes apparent that a ryder needs to be defensive in their ryding and wear protective gear.

I see tons of pictures of Spyder ryders wearing cut off pants, sneakers, short sleeved shirts and head protection that is less than a full face helment. I guess it's to each his own. And all's well if all goes as planned out on the road. It's just that if if humans are involved in the production or operation of any machine, there can be errors. So, be careful out there everyone. We all hate to hear of people getting hurt!

[SpyderFun]

Our BRP is no longer in the aviation business -- we are now a separate entity.


I see no reason to report to the NHTSA until a determination of whether there was a malfunction of any of the systems.

But wasn't the Spyder initially engineered under the BRP corporate entity and if so, BRP may still be, to a point, culpable. Trying to say they are unaware of the possibility that an electronic signal could be "jammed/locked" on a product of theirs is a weak argument for them to make. Most big corporations have smaller "companies" within the whole as a means of limiting their exposure to litigious damages for just such a reason.

Not sure I would agree about not filing a NHTSA report. Smart money favors filing and let the system work. Filing a report allows accident information to be tracked future reference. Think of it this way, the NHTSA cannot, or will not, do anything unless there is a documented paper trail showing evidence of an issue that endangers lives. Without this evidence, their hands are bound. Finally, if there its nothing to the accident than filing the report does nothing anyways. "Cant fix it if you don't know its broke."

[Firefly]

But wasn't the Spyder initially engineered under the BRP corporate entity and if so, BRP may still be, to a point, culpable. Trying to say they are unaware of the possibility that an electronic signal could be "jammed/locked" on a product of theirs is a weak argument for them to make. Most big corporations have smaller "companies" within the whole as a means of limiting their exposure to litigious damages for just such a reason.

Not sure I would agree about not filing a NHTSA report. Smart money favors filing and let the system work. Filing a report allows accident information to be tracked future reference. Think of it this way, the NHTSA cannot, or will not, do anything unless there is a documented paper trail showing evidence of an issue that endangers lives. Without this evidence, their hands are bound. Finally, if there its nothing to the accident than filing the report does nothing anyways. "Cant fix it if you don't know its broke."

Certainly 'our' BRP could be held 'culpable' if there was such determination. Wasn't excusing them at all - just pointing out they are NOT the same company as the aviation one. Really makes no difference pertaining to this accident. I'm sure 'our' BRP is well aware of electronic interference pertaining to the Spyder and the CANBUS system.

Certainly filing an NHTSA report is up to the rider, but determining what really happened will be important - otherwise it's just an 'accident'.

It's pretty obvious now that this was probably not a DPS issue, but maybe something as simple as a loose shock bolt. That could be BRP, the dealer, who knows who's at fault.

Glad the rider is okay and willing to give the Spyder another shot. Any mechanical system can fail.

Ryde on!

[ARtraveler]

I have added some additional information about group riding in post #73. Not everyone will agree, but it has worked here. The important point is safety of everyone participating in any group ride is paramount.

[NancysToy]

Truthfully i haven't gone on a group ride since the late 60's early 70's.
Back then i was invincible. I figured if Charlie couldn't get me i could handle anything.
Now i just want to ride and not worry about what the bike in front or behind me is doing or not doing.
It's the same when i take someone out in my ATV's, i just take them in my Rhino,then i don't have to keep looking over my shoulder.
Just me i like riding at 75 percent, riding in group's you need 110 percent.

I avoid groups rides when I can, too. There are times when they are unavoidable, however...a group of SpyderLovers meeting up for an eat-n-greet, our BMW club rides, and the various vintage rides come to mind. Whenever my wife rides her own Spyder, we become a group ride by default. Kind of a mixed blessing. I hated it before we got the Spyders and I had to do two-up journeys on a two-wheeler, but I also hate having to keep the pace with her tagging along behind...or worse yet, having her push me and take up my whole mirror, or pull away from me if she is in the lead. A married rider is seldom alone.

[bruiser]

I avoid groups rides when I can, too. There are times when they are unavoidable, however...a group of SpyderLovers meeting up for an eat-n-greet, our BMW club rides, and the various vintage rides come to mind. Whenever my wife rides her own Spyder, we become a group ride by default. Kind of a mixed blessing. I hated it before we got the Spyders and I had to do two-up journeys on a two-wheeler, but I also hate having to keep the pace with her tagging along behind...or worse yet, having her push me and take up my whole mirror, or pull away from me if she is in the lead. A married rider is seldom alone.

Aint it the truth!!

[chillirider]

I try to avoid larger group rides with people I don't know. You are guessing at thier experience levels, sobriety etc. Riding with people I know I have no issues. None of the people I ride with drink while we are out on the bikes. From what I see most group ride accidents are larger groups, Poker runs etc.

[Bob Denman]

A married rider is seldom alone.

Married riders are NEVER alone... Even when she's not outback she's in my head messing with all the fun that I want to have...

[Desert Spyder]

Married riders are NEVER alone... Even when she's not outback she's in my head messing with all the fun that I want to have...

[NancysToy]

Married riders are NEVER alone... Even when she's not outback she's in my head messing with all the fun that I want to have...

Nancy has never messed with any of my fun, in all these 36+ years...except maybe for the fact that she no longer approves of me racing. She put her foot down hard when that thought crossed my mind. If she was a more reliable "voice of reason", I wouldn't have 25 motorcycles and several collector cars taking up garage space. Be careful what you wish for.

[Phil]

Married riders are NEVER alone... Even when she's not outback she's in my head messing with all the fun that I want to have...

I know you're in NY, but my wife is a LPC marriage & family counselor. I need to pay for all my mods- she has hours available

[wyliec]

I know you're in NY, but my wife is a LPC marriage & family counselor. I need to pay for all my mods- she has hours available

[SpyderWolf]

I know you're in NY, but my wife is a LPC marriage & family counselor. I need to pay for all my mods- she has hours available

Outstanding offer that could pay big dividends for you. I like it.

[memphisdan]

Has anyone heard any follow up on the cause of this accident, was this a mechanical problem or human error?

[Desert Spyder]

Has anyone heard any follow up on the cause of this accident, was this a mechanical problem or human error?

It definitely WAS NOT human error. I inspected the bike not long afterwards and I saw (which was first spotted by another party) the top shock bolt missing on the right side. When, how and what caused this is anybodys guess.

The important lesson here of course is to inspect your bike as best you can. Will this be the only shock bolt out of all the thousands of Spyders out there spread out over 3 or more continents? Dunno. If there's a second or more we will probably never hear about it.

BRP watches this site and if I were them I'd send a message to all the dealers to add this item to the check list when we service our bikes.