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  1. #1
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Default A word about brake pads...

    Many are purchasing their own brake pad sets and doing the work themselves. I highly commend you if you are able to do this. But I get customers calling saying they can get 'Carbon Fiber' brake pads for less than our Sintered pad sets. I know this is true and fine if you want to go this way. But 'Carbon Fiber' just means they are Organic pads. Carbon Fiber is the organic friction material used by most brake manufacturers. Sellers know that if they call their product 'Organic', they don't sound nearly as exotic. They have found they can charge more for the same thing by renaming it. Not that they are misrepresenting what they sell. But they count on the customer not knowing that Organic and Carbon Fiber are pretty much one and the same.

    Organic is what the original Spyders come with stock. (EDIT) *BRP switched to either a semi or fully sintered when they started putting Brembo pads on*. Organic doesn't last as long, nor does it stop as well or resist fading as well as Sintered brake pads. But they are less expensive. If you are paying labor to install brake pads. Organic will probably end up costing you more in the long run, as you'll have to get them done more often than with Sintered pads.

    If you are happy with organic, not a problem. I would never presume to tell a customer what to buy. But don't pay inflated prices for 'Carbon Fiber'. You're not getting anything special. Some may look fancy. But the last time you'll see them is in the package. What most want is something that impresses when you push down on the brake pedal.

    Have a Great Riding Season!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 02-28-2023 at 05:47 PM. Reason: ' 's ;-)
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  2. #2
    Very Active Member hypurone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    Organic is what the Spyder comes stock with.
    Not on my 15 F3S! It had sintered pads as delivered new... They were WAY too hard for even a Sintered pad and I swapped them out for EBC's early on... Maybe some older Spyders came with organics but I would hazard to say that anything 2015 and newer is NOT Organic... Just sayin'.... ;-)

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  3. #3
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hypurone View Post
    Not on my 15 F3S! It had sintered pads as delivered new... They were WAY too hard for even a Sintered pad and I swapped them out for EBC's early on... Maybe some older Spyders came with organics but I would hazard to say that anything 2015 and newer is NOT Organic... Just sayin'.... ;-)
    You're right. I meant to say the ORIGINAL Spyders came with Organic pads (to 2012). But went to either semi or fully sintered in 2013 when BRP started using Brembo calipers. That is to say Organic pads will be a downgrade of the OEM. I edited my post to clarify. Thanks!
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  4. #4
    Active Member xwingnut's Avatar
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    FWIW....I made the mistake of putting "organic" brake pads on the rear of my 2017 BMW R1200RT a few years back, and they wore out so fast I was amazed...and that's on a linked 2-wheel system where most braking is done by the front pads. I went back to sintered pads all around.
    I just put new tires on my 2020 Spyder RT with 11,000 miles on it and all brake pads look fine.
    Ride on.......
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  5. #5
    Very Active Member Bfromla's Avatar
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    Carbon fiber is SOO cool

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  6. #6
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bfromla View Post
    Carbon fiber is SOO cool
    On helmets and tank pad accents...
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  7. #7
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    with Ron when He says His pads stop better and from my experience last quite a bit longer than oem's ...... like 8 to 10,000 mi. longer ..... Mike

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    Ok I am confused are you saying my 2020 RTL has sintered brakes on it from the factory and if so are they as good as the EBC sintered brakes because I getting ready to change front tires I was going to change brake pads and rotors at the same time which I got from one are support vendor just making sure I understand this right because my brakes are not wore out just wanted better braking. Thanks

  9. #9
    Very Active Member hypurone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bfromla View Post
    carbon fiber is soo cool
    It is SOOOOO cool.... ;-)

    20211103_134947.jpg

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  10. #10
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longtimer View Post
    Ok I am confused are you saying my 2020 RTL has sintered brakes on it from the factory and if so are they as good as the EBC sintered brakes because I getting ready to change front tires I was going to change brake pads and rotors at the same time which I got from one are support vendor just making sure I understand this right because my brakes are not wore out just wanted better braking. Thanks
    I am not sure if the OEM pads are Sintered or Semi-Sintered. But they are one of the 2. Hopefully, you are going with a high carbon rotor which will not only last longer and resist warpage better. But will also stop better as well.
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  11. #11
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    Do you sell Hi Carbon rotors for Spyders and Rykers?
    Dean O
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  12. #12
    Very Active Member pegasus1300's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old Timer View Post
    Do you sell Hi Carbon rotors for Spyders and Rykers?
    Yes he does. They are EBC rotors and they work very well.

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  13. #13
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old Timer View Post
    Do you sell Hi Carbon rotors for Spyders and Rykers?
    I do not know of an aftermarket rotor for the Ryker other than the ones that Martin the Vlogger sells. But those are not plug-&-play.

    But yes, we carry high carbon rotors for all Spyder models.
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    Iím in the market for pads (I think) and have found many, but way cheap and Iím not going there lol. So has anybody tried ceramic pads? I see theyíre out there. And is sintered the same as what automotive brakes are referred to as semi-metallic?

    Also, Iíve never done bike pads before, but Iíve done many, many car brakes. How thick are new pads on a 2010 RS? Mine are thicker than the backing plate, but not by much. There is only a sharp pencil size hole where the the rotor meets the groove in the pad.
    ~~2010 RS SE5 My first Spidey, but not my first ride~~

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  15. #15
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaniBoy View Post
    I’m in the market for pads (I think) and have found many, but way cheap and I’m not going there lol. So has anybody tried ceramic pads? I see they’re out there. And is sintered the same as what automotive brakes are referred to as semi-metallic?

    Also, I’ve never done bike pads before, but I’ve done many, many car brakes. How thick are new pads on a 2010 RS? Mine are thicker than the backing plate, but not by much. There is only a sharp pencil size hole where the the rotor meets the groove in the pad.
    If your friction material is anywhere near the thickness of the backing plate, then you have plenty of pad left. The wear limit is 1mm. About the thickness of a credit card. If you let them get this thin you just need to keep an eye on them. Check both pads as one can wear more quickly than the other. Sometimes severely so if there is an issue with the caliper.

    The rears wear more quickly than the fronts on the 2008-2012 models.

    I have not tested any ceramic pads. If you get these I would like to have your feedback if you are interested.

    Sintered pads are not the same as semi-metalic.

    Organic pads are made, usually, from Kevlar or other similar materials. They are inexpensive and usually noise free. They don't stop well and wear more quickly than other pads. They create a fair amount of dust but do not rust or corrode your wheels.

    Semi-Metallic pads have steel imbedded into them. They usually cost more than Organic pads but still relatively inexpensive. The original Spyders came with Semi-Metallic pads, and they stopped on a dime. But people screamed about the noise and, of course, being made with steel, the dust will rust on parts and is hard to remove. Semi-Metallic pads wear the longest and stop the best. They are almost always noisy and they are hard on rotors (though on the Spyder this is really a non-issue). We've never replaced or sold a rotor set to a customer that wore out a rotor. Warped and damaged rotors because pads were allowed to go metal to metal, yes. But not from simple wear.

    Sintered pads are a hybrid Semi-Metallic. Replacing the steel component with a copper alloy. They are slightly less aggressive so stopping power is slightly less than with Semi-Metallic. They are as quiet or quieter than Organic (though a few still get some squeal). They dust less and the dust will not rust and is easy to remove. In short, they solve all the issues with the Semi-Metallic pads while retaining the performance. However, they are expensive.

    Ceramic pads are not new. But are new for the Spyder. Ceramic is popular because they do last a long time, they have decent stopping power (though not as much as the Sintered). Racers use Sintered or Semi-Metallic pads because they stop better than anything else. Typically, if it is a street bike that the rider is racing they will use Sintered pads. If it is strictly a race bike only, they tend to use Semi-Metallic. Ceramic is the least dusty and the dust is typically easily removed.

    Then you get into cheaply and well made pads. Ceramic and Sintered pads are typically expensive. But you can cut corners on materials and produce a less expensive pad. I think quality brake pads for our Spyders are outrageously expensive. So I know there is interest in a less expensive pad. I do not have the time to test everything that is out there. Customers, for the most part, do that for us. Will these inexpensive ceramic pads work well? I think someone will have to try them to find out.
    Last edited by BajaRon; 03-17-2023 at 12:35 PM.
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  16. #16
    Active Member Isopedella's Avatar
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    I look for a pad that has have decent stopping power and will wear down the pad and not eat the disc.

    I find what is on offer a bit confusing I will admit. Organic pads = ceramic pad = Sintered pads = Semi-Metallic = Carbon Fiber pads .
    Start read up all the blurb that comes with that you have to have this miracle brake pad, and I get dizzy 1/2/way through.
    Maybe its just me.

  17. #17
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Here is a pretty good article on brake pad friction material. It doesn't sit 100% with what I said. But this is more due to terminology differences and the fact that there are so many different friction material compounds out there. Still a good read if you're interested.

    https://www.suburbanautoparts.com/di...-of-brake-pads
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    "Will these inexpensive ceramic pads work well? I think someone will have to try them to find out."

    Even though Ron's attachment disagrees with me, ceramic pads were the toughest on my rotors. I never used them on my spyder; my experience with them was on my truck. Because of price, longevity, and ease of replacement, I'll stay with Ron's Sintered pads. JMHO

  19. #19
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2dogs View Post
    "Will these inexpensive ceramic pads work well? I think someone will have to try them to find out."

    Even though Ron's attachment disagrees with me, ceramic pads were the toughest on my rotors. I never used them on my spyder; my experience with them was on my truck. Because of price, longevity, and ease of replacement, I'll stay with Ron's Sintered pads. JMHO
    It is about as difficult to get consensus on brake pads as it is on oil. I disagree with some of what that link information says as well. But again, there are variations on all the different brake compounds. As they say, 'The proof is in the pudding'.

    Some rave about ceramic. Some hate them. Hard to understand the disparity in satisfaction. And this with non-Spyder vehicles as I don't know anyone who has tried the ceramics I've found for our 3-wheeled rides. The low price is nice, but makes me a bit skeptical. My guess is that these are from China and no one is holding them to any standard. The color is different than any ceramic pad I've seen. Is that important? I don't know. But it makes me wonder how much, if any, ceramic is in them at all. Again. I can't make any final judgement until someone tries them. I'm sure someone will. Until then, I am going to carry what I know works extremely well. I have well loved customers. Not Guinee pigs.

    Well, that's not completely true. I do have customers who agree to be Guinee pigs on prototype items. But everyone goes into the process knowing this.
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  20. #20
    Very Active Member FrogmanDave's Avatar
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    Ceramic pads will keep your wheels much cleaner. No question about it. But... I put my Z06 Corvette on a track with ceramic pads installed and once I got my brakes hot I may as well have not had brakes at all. My brakes stunk so bad once I got back to the pit area I was embarrassed. Don't buy them if you want any kind of performance. For regular use they are great.
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    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    As they say, 'The proof is in the pudding'.
    Taking a detour down the path of trivia. To correct the common misquote the saying is actually, "The proof is in the eating of the pudding."

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    ..... As they say, 'The proof is in the pudding' .....
    Ron, I don't believe you, me, or anyone could catch a consensus on this site. Come to think of it maybe that's why some of us avoid group riding, you think? However I do consider the varied opinions I come across.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 03-18-2023 at 04:43 PM. Reason: Fixed quote display ;-)

  23. #23
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    Taking a detour down the path of trivia. To correct the common misquote the saying is actually, "The proof is in the eating of the pudding."
    You are exactly right. But the only way to test pudding is to eat it. Leading many consider that addition superfluous.

    Which reminds me. I like pudding. I'm going to check the pantry...

    Quote Originally Posted by 2dogs View Post
    Ron, I don't believe you, me, or anyone could catch a consensus on this site. Come to think of it maybe that's why some of us avoid group riding, you think? However I do consider the varied opinions I come across.
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