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  1. #26
    Very Active Member SLICE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
    You should have got a 998 if you like to rev it up!!
    i want to ride the new supercharged kawasaki. 200+ MPH

  2. #27
    Active Member Latrappe's Avatar
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    I use a Handbrake Kit as my primary means of braking as my right leg and foot does not work that well due to MS, so I am really relying on my right hand to stop which means I have to read the road well to stop in time and not ride like a lunatic (as much as it hate that), for my understanding if you brake with your foot on a Spyder you can out brake anything on the road because you use your foot if I am wrong there please correct me, in my case I can get close but there is no way I can compete with someone using there foot to brake a Spyder even if I can crunch 80KG in my hand there is no way I can compete with the almighty foot pressing on the brake pedal, so it really comes done to read the road and ride to the conditions.
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    You can choose to use your brakes alone as you slow; or you can choose to shift down & engine brake if that's what you prefer; none of my business or anyone else's but yours - but it might pay you to keep in mind that these SE transmissions our Spyders run are, for all intents and purposes, still just MANUAL gearboxes, albeit with centrifugal clutches (SE5's) or oil pressure/hydraulic clutches(SE6's) and some pretty sexy electro/solenoid computer enacted flappy-paddle (thumb & fore-finger) initiated 'quick-shift' gear selection capabilities; and as such they have a FAIL-SAFE downshift feature built into the Transmission Control Module (TCM computer) that's designed and intended to make the down-shift for you if you ever happen to forget or if you apply too much throttle for the gear/road speed & so risk putting too much torque thru that (higher) gear &/or the clutch.

    So while the computer TCM has your back and won't let you do anything that'll likely cause damage, if you REALLY want to do what's best for you & the bike/its transmission & clutch, you'll ride & change gears exactly the same way you would for any other bike with a MANUAL gearbox.... and if that involves you choosing to coast &/or brake to slow down without personally initiating any changing down to match your revs/road speed & instead leaving all that to the Fail-Safe software programmed into the computer, that's OK - but so is initiating the gearchanges to match your slowing revs/road speed yourself; or even selecting the lower gears a bit early to help slow you down &/or stay in the power band/right rev range for that gear/road speed if you wish! Mind you, it might be a bit more important to practice either of those last two mentioned for riders of SE5 bikes, cos you can get a 'false neutral' when the centrifugal clutch starts to disengage if your revs drop low enough.... once your engine revs drop anything much below 3500 rpm the clutch will start to disengage and in some circumstances, that can see you free-wheeling... possibly at an ever-increasing speed if there's enough down-hill slope involved!!

    Still, the gearbox is made to handle either coasting to a stop &/or engine braking (or any other way besides ); if it wasn't, the gear teeth in the trans wouldn't have or need a bearing/contact face on each side of every tooth, but I reckon those're there for a pretty good reason; and besides, the computer won't let you do anything truly harmful to the clutch/trans/engine when changing gears anyway! Me, I personally ride/drive my Spyder as I would any other manually gearboxed bike/vehicle, and I generally initiate any necessary gearchange down-shifts myself, but not always - sometimes that might entail a bit of engine braking (ex-crashbox heavy vehicle driver here ) and sometimes it's just me matching revs & road speed to the gear selection seamlessly as I gently slow ( ); but I know that whatever way, the computer's got my back if I get it wrong occasionally, AND even if I completely forget to change down at all, or if I suddenly wrench the throttle wide open again in too high a gear for the given road speed!

    Just Sayin'
    So Peter, you’re saying that the clutch starts to disengage on the SE below 3500? Does that mean that in slow moving traffic, like city, construction, etc that just creeping along is bad for it?
    ~~2010 RS SE5 My first Spidey, but not my first ride~~

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  4. #29
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaniBoy View Post
    So Peter, you’re saying that the clutch starts to disengage on the SE below 3500? Does that mean that in slow moving traffic, like city, construction, etc that just creeping along is bad for it?
    Yep, the clutch on the SE5's won't FULLY engage until the revs get up over about 3200-3400, there's a little variation in there; and on decel they'll start to disengage as your revs drop thru about 3500 (different on the SE6's tho - they just need engine running oil pressure! ) It's not really a biggie if you're just creeping along, low speed, low gear, low revs type for a little bit, cos it'll manage that OK to some degree due to the low torque involved; but you really don't want to do it all the time, for a long time, or try to change up too soon - wait until you can reach & hold revs above 4000+ or so for a while in order to make sure the revs won't immediately drop as you slow again & so push too much torque thru the clutch now that you're in a higher gear!!! Most of your 'around town' riding anything slower than about 35mph should probably be in First &/or Second gear, and you should only go to Third ONLY IF you think you'll be able to hold revs over 4000 or so for a bit of a while... but if it's slow &/or stop/start traffic, try to let the vehicle in front pull away a bit & get more space between you'n it so that you can actually rev more & ride a bit then stop or coast with no throttle, moving in fits & spurts rather than trying to continually just creep along barely moving as the engine ticks over juuust above idle. Your SE5 clutch will much prefer it if you open the throttle a bit more to move forward then consciously/actively shut it off to coast & stop for a bit rather than trying to continually creep along....

    At some point around, I think it was around mid 2013, BRP introduced thicker/stronger clutch plates to improve these centrifugal clutch's ability to withstand this sort of thing juust a little, cos too many people had been tooling around in higher gears at too low revs, & as a result they were cooking their centrifugal clutches; but this upgrade didn't stop it happening if you treated it wrong, it just improved things a little - funnily enough, this happened more often in North America where many people were more used to big twin cylinder high torque/low revving engines that only fired at every telegraph pole when doing 35 mph or less, & not so much in other parts of the world where higher revving motors were more common. IIRC, there's quite a bit of discussion on this clutch thing in some threads back around 2010 ish, certainly before about 2015 or so, if you want to search & do some reading; but if you still have questions, you probably won't get too many posters from those early threads responding now.

    Make sense??
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 02-22-2023 at 11:03 AM. Reason: SE6's ;-)
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  5. #30
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaniBoy View Post
    So Peter, you’re saying that the clutch starts to disengage on the SE below 3500? Does that mean that in slow moving traffic, like city, construction, etc that just creeping along is bad for it?
    It's not quite that simple. The clutch does not necessarily start disengaging at 3,500 RPM. Actually, I think the official number is 3,200 RPM. But regardless. What it means is that maximum clutch plate pressure is not reached until this magic number (whatever it is). Under slight or even moderate loading, a less than maximum plate pressure is enough to keep the assembly completely engaged (no slippage). As engine load increases and clutch plate pressure decreases, clutch slippage is more likely.

    There is nothing wrong with appropriate clutch slippage. Clutches MUST slip, and all do. It is excessive slippage that will begin to destroy the clutch and should be avoided. So, creeping along in slow traffic is not going to be a problem.
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  6. #31
    Very Active Member SLICE's Avatar
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  7. #32
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    Great video. "The only bad thing is No Brake Light." That's where a Decelerometer module comes in, but I never could get mine regulated satisfactorily, so I have it inoperable right now.
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  8. #33
    Very Active Member cruisinTX's Avatar
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    I do a little of both. I typically touch the brake just enough to shave off a little speed before downshifting for two reasons. One is to light up the brake lights to indicate to anyone following me that I'm slowing down. Second is to save a little of the wear on the transmission and clutch cause by the sudden changes. Both steps are just old habits from riding motorcycles since 1968.

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  9. #34
    Very Active Member Peacekeeper6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    My answer is going start a .... WAR .... I use my brakes 95% of the time (I have an SE trans w 1330 engine) I let the computer do the Downshifting ...... the other 5 % I downshift manually to stay in the power band in the Twisty's. .... Lots of folks will say the trans. is made to withstand the abuse created by "engine braking" .... IMHO (and many others) every time you subject metal to metal contact, this creates WEAR - period (this applies to the clutch also). I would rather buy brake pads then engine/ trans. parts..... let the fighting begin ... ..... Mike
    You're not going to start a war with me because I basically feel the same way and do the same thing.
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  10. #35
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    Depends on the situation. If we are decelerating towards a red light, we usually let the system do the downshifting, I we are decelerating for a corner, we decide when to downshift. "Totally Situational" we just try to stay in the sweet spot.
    Last edited by KAMJAM; 03-25-2023 at 08:17 PM.

  11. #36
    SpyderLovers Sponsor BajaRon's Avatar
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    This guy is 100%, exactly right. Good Job!
    Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)

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  12. #37
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    Mine is an SE5, and I’ve noticed that manually downshifting via the blipper is much smoother than just braking and letting the TCM do it. Letting the bike downshift by itself seems to be a louder, harsher “clunk”, I suppose because the RPM’s are lower than they would be if I manually downshift. Does that make sense? In my mind, the prominent “Can-Am Clunk”, (especially noticeable when shifting into reverse) just sounds like extreme wear on the gears and such. Shifting into 1st after reversing is smooth and almost silent, as is up shifting once I’m on the road. Is that normal? Are automatic downshifts clunkier than manual ones?
    ~~2010 RS SE5 My first Spidey, but not my first ride~~

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  13. #38
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    Bought my first Spyder Nov 23 (23 RTL) after 50 years riding two wheelers. The weather is finally cooperating and I have started doing some serious riding. I'm loving the RTL. I have managed to stop grabbing for the clutch and hand brake and I'm getting comfortable shifting with the paddles. I'm fine downshifting for a stop, but when I let the bike downshift it often bucks and lurches when it shifts into 1st. I'm pretty sure this isn't normal. Is it something I'm doing? not doing?

  14. #39
    Very Active Member ThreeWheels's Avatar
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    I know all the arguments that the Spyders are designed for downshifting. Nevertheless brakes cost far less than transmissions. I slow down using brakes. Why tempt fate?
    If it ain't broke, don't break it.
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  15. #40
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAV06 View Post
    Bought my first Spyder Nov 23 (23 RTL) after 50 years riding two wheelers. The weather is finally cooperating and I have started doing some serious riding. I'm loving the RTL. I have managed to stop grabbing for the clutch and hand brake and I'm getting comfortable shifting with the paddles. I'm fine downshifting for a stop, but when I let the bike downshift it often bucks and lurches when it shifts into 1st. I'm pretty sure this isn't normal. Is it something I'm doing? not doing?
    That 'automatic downshift' thing is designed as a 'downshift of last resort just to save you/your engine/trans from your lack of planning/control etc' for when you've forgotten or have just been too busy staying alive/out of someone's way etc to be able to manually down-shift too, CAV06, so it was never intended to be as smooth as a full auto! It's just there to protect your engine &/or trans from you doing the wrong thing by what's essentially STILL just a manual transmission, albeit with some sexy 'Flappy paddle activated Quick-shift' capabilities and a smart 'oil pressure controlled computer activated clutch'; so by letting it do the down-shift all on its own, you're avoiding bringing all those sexy controls & management things into play & letting system revert to its almost uncontrolled manual operation - and as such, it doesn't do quite as much in the way of road speed/throttle/gear rotation speed matching, and you stand a far greater chance of get a fairly clunky change. If you instead TELL the sexy control systems to make that downshift as & when it's going to do it best, by triggering the change with the flappy paddles & then letting the all the computers & electro-solenoids & the throttle blippers et al work together to make it seamless in the way the system was designed means you largely avoid all that!

    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeWheels View Post
    I know all the arguments that the Spyders are designed for downshifting. Being in the right gear for a given road speed means you have a choice of braking OR accelerating without hesitation/issue. I slow down by changing down thru the gears AND/OR using the brakes as & when necessary. Why tempt fate?
    You must've got yourself a bit mixed up ThreeWheels, so I fixed it for you in the Quote above!

    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 03-15-2024 at 11:06 PM.
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  16. #41
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    I have always downshifted on my other bikes. The thing I have noticed on my F3 Limited is it takes about 2 seconds after the downshift for the bike to actually start to decel. To me, it actually feels like the bike accelerates a bit on downshift. I have started leading my downshift point a bit to compensate. I only have a few hundred miles on the F3 Limited, but it is a bit of a different ball game on the downshift to me (and I may be wrong but it's how it feels to me).
    Last edited by bullet33912; 03-15-2024 at 11:17 PM.

  17. #42
    Very Active Member Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAV06 View Post
    Bought my first Spyder Nov 23 (23 RTL) after 50 years riding two wheelers. The weather is finally cooperating and I have started doing some serious riding. I'm loving the RTL. I have managed to stop grabbing for the clutch and hand brake and I'm getting comfortable shifting with the paddles. I'm fine downshifting for a stop, but when I let the bike downshift it often bucks and lurches when it shifts into 1st. I'm pretty sure this isn't normal. Is it something I'm doing? not doing?
    You say it's lurches when it downshifts on its own, I would have to say that's not normal, and if it was me maybe I would take it to the shop and have it checked out, or find a friend that has a Spyder and let them try it and see what they think, and maybe you could try there's to ease your mind one way or another! Good luck
    2012 RTL , Pearl

  18. #43
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    My attention was drawn to this thread because of recent discussions with my two wheeled riding friends. Until two years ago, I had ridden two wheels for 50+ years and had developed a habit of controlling speed with the use of the transmission so I continued that practice when I moved to a Spyder after spending quality time in the hospital recovering from the effects of Covid. Anyway, several of my two wheeled riding buddies started commenting about how quickly I was scrubbing speed at corners or any other reason to slow and reminded me that when downshifting to slow my brake lights were not being activated and they didn't have adequate warning of a change of speed. I was tempted to remind them that they are responsible for being aware of the vehicles in front of them but then realized that they had a legitimate complaint and vehicles had stop lights for a reason, so, I started tapping my brakes even when downshifting just to give those behind me a warning I was changing speed. I haven't quit downshifting or decreased the amount of engine control I am using to control speed, just added some brake use to flash the brake lights. So this comment just to remind all of us that there may be more to this discussion than just the merits of wear on brake pads, engines and transmissions.
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  19. #44
    Very Active Member EdMat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullet33912 View Post
    I have always downshifted on my other bikes. The thing I have noticed on my F3 Limited is it takes about 2 seconds after the downshift for the bike to actually start to decel. To me, it actually feels like the bike accelerates a bit on downshift. I have started leading my downshift point a bit to compensate. I only have a few hundred miles on the F3 Limited, but it is a bit of a different ball game on the downshift to me (and I may be wrong but it's how it feels to me).
    Is it possible that you are blipping the throttle when downshifting? Doing so confuses the bike. It does not know if you are downshifting to accelerate or slow down.

    Let off the throttle, flick the paddle to downshift, and the bike will throttle match, activate the clutch, downshift, and be back at idle almost instantly.
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 03-16-2024 at 07:49 AM.
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  20. #45
    Very Active Member Snoking1127's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    This guy is 100%, exactly right. Good Job!
    Drivers of every stripe in Arizona must go through a lot of brake pads. As they all seem to race up to a red light and throw the anchor out at the last minute. When I see a red light, I tap the brake pedal to cancel cruise control, or let up on the throttle and coast towards the light watching my mirrors; and people will switch lanes and continue to race towards the red light! Most of the time the light will turn green just before I have to brake to a complete stop. Speeding in Arizona also seem to be a right of passage! My home brewed third brake light flashes for 6 seconds and then goes steady. And repeats every time I use the brakes.

    The Champagne has a 4 LED strobe and the Asphalt Grey one three, as the supply of the 4 LED array no longer has the extra wire for cruise (AKA on steady).
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    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 03-16-2024 at 08:14 AM.
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  21. #46
    Very Active Member ThreeWheels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post

    You must've got yourself a bit mixed up ThreeWheels, so I fixed it for you in the Quote above!

    Thanks so much for your help Peter, but I stand by my original comments. You are correct, there are many options. The ECU should prevent the driver from blowing the engine. I slow down using my brakes and the Spyder then downshifts itself accordingly. Others are welcome to ride any way they wish.
    If it ain't broke, don't break it.
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  22. #47
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    My ‘22 RTL also accelerates slightly on a paddle downshift.
    2022 Spyder RTL- dark trim
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  23. #48
    Very Active Member EdMat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealWing View Post
    My ‘22 RTL also accelerates slightly on a paddle downshift.
    Are you completely off the throttle when you downshift?
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  24. #49
    Very Active Member Navydad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealWing View Post
    My ‘22 RTL also accelerates slightly on a paddle downshift.
    Mine does too. It isn't actually accelerating as much as free wheeling which allows it to speed up a bit on the downhill especially. There is a bit of lag, maybe a second or so, before the clutch re-engages after the shift.
    2015 RT , Black

  25. #50
    Active Member seaweed's Avatar
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    I have a module on my Spyder that will flash the brake light 4 times then go solid red when I apply the brake. I normally attempt to coast up to a stop, first taping the brake, then a combination of letting the engine downshift and using the brake.

    The tapping of the brake also will take the bike out of cruise control if I have it applied.

    If am sitting at a light and see a vehicle approaching behind me, I will apply the brake to flash my brake lights then go solid red. This is to alert the driver that I am stopped. This normally cause the driver of the vehicle to stop well behind me.

    Dean Secord AKA seaweed
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