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  1. #1
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    Default Objective tire testing?

    I'm curious - has anyone or any organization even done any OBJECTIVE tire testing on the Spyder re: tire pressures and handling, braking, acceleration, etc.? We read a lot of "butt" dyno reports (and I'm not discounting any of that as the butt can be very accurate), but (see what I did there?) actual testing with numbers and data sets?
    Track tests, cone tests, braking distances at different pressures under the same controlled conditions?

    And the differences in same on a unladen F3 vs a fully loaded RT - I would like to know with data sets what affect a pound (two pounds, three pounds) +/- actually has.

    Or I will have to get off my lazy butt and spend an afternoon in an empty parking lot with the air compressor, stopwatch and measuring tape for myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasDan View Post
    I'm curious - has anyone or any organization even done any OBJECTIVE tire testing on the Spyder re: tire pressures and handling, braking, acceleration, etc.... actual testing with numbers and data sets? Track tests, cone tests, braking distances at different pressures under the same controlled conditions? And the differences in same on a unladen F3 vs a fully loaded RT ... Or I will have to get off my lazy butt and spend an afternoon in an empty parking lot with the air compressor, stopwatch and measuring tape for myself.
    That would still be subjective.

    No, I don't believe there are any scientific (objective) studies on even the Kendas, much less other brands. The market isn't big enough.
    Last edited by UtahPete; 06-19-2022 at 03:48 PM.
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    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    Doing such tests with OEM Crapenda tires is about as useful as trying to spit shine a t**d.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasDan View Post
    I will have to get off my lazy butt and spend an afternoon in an empty parking lot with the air compressor, stopwatch and measuring tape for myself.
    Don't you have anything better to do in the heat?, Mike and Peter have us covered.

    T.P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T.P. View Post
    Don't you have anything better to do in the heat?, Mike and Peter have us covered.

    T.P.
    With all due respect - I am a data guy.
    I may believe anothers opinion; but I am rarely satisfied by opinion without some objective supporting data.

    So I guess; if I want data sets - Ill have to create my own on my "Crapendas" and then again when I move to true automotive rubber. Ill share my findings when I complete them.
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    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasDan View Post
    I'm curious - has anyone or any organization even done any OBJECTIVE tire testing on the Spyder re: tire pressures and handling, braking, acceleration, etc.? We read a lot of "butt" dyno reports (and I'm not discounting any of that as the butt can be very accurate), but (see what I did there?) actual testing with numbers and data sets?
    Track tests, cone tests, braking distances at different pressures under the same controlled conditions?

    And the differences in same on a unladen F3 vs a fully loaded RT - I would like to know with data sets what affect a pound (two pounds, three pounds) +/- actually has.

    Or I will have to get off my lazy butt and spend an afternoon in an empty parking lot with the air compressor, stopwatch and measuring tape for myself.
    Apart from you doing that sort of 'home grown' testing yourself with your uncalibrated and self-admitted 'lazy butt' & no control over a large proportion of the range of conditions etc that may effect results in a parking lot somewhere, it's really very expensive to do that sort of testing in any helpful/reliable way Dan, and the people who pay for that sorta testing are generally pretty strict about where any of their test results &/or data gets used &/or published, so it's not likely that you'll get to see much of the sort of detailed data that I reckon you're looking for here.... You could search the magazines, or possibly find a utube channel or two that's done some limited testing vaguely along those lines on some of the tires that you might be interested in trying, but it too will probably reveal little in the way of the data you want and besides, I doubt there's too much out there involving Spyders & suitable tires in the applicable sizes... as others have said, the market is just too small to justify the expense!

    However, I have managed to get my 'educated & frequently calibrated butt & driving/riding skills' involved in some testing of that sort on a variety of tires/vehicles over the years (spent a whole coupla days of it just recently on the new release Michelin Pilot Sport - fantastic tire! Just no sizes that'll fit straight onto a Spyder; and a very strict agreement on leaking details.... ) & during the last 10 years or so have even managed to squeeze in some runs on a few different Spyders & a limited range of readily available tire brands & sizes - but since someone else was always paying for it, those 'strict rules' commented upon above apply, altho I've shared what I can (well, occasionally a bit more, but that truly wasn't intentional & won't be repeated! ) & hopefully expressed it in 'laymans terms' that most might've found to be maybe juuust a little helpful...

    I'm sure that Mike's also been constrained in what he can & can't share about his experiences with investigating tires & how they've actually performed under the stressful conditions he was called in for, and I believe he too has shared what he can in a way that most people might find helpful, so I believe the best you're ever likely to get on a Forum like this will be the largely anecdotal info you've already seen, with little in the way of data - unless of course, someone wants to spring for the rather large 6 or more figured sum required for a day of the measurable & repeatable testing under (vaguely) controlled conditions that tire manufacturers so often use their secret squirrel computer modelling tools to conduct these days, just cos it's so expensive/difficult to do in real life!! . I might even even look at volunteering to drag my 'educated & frequently calibrated butt & driving/riding skills' outta retirement to be involved if someone did..... altho last time I looked, there weren't too many suitable facilities for that sort of testing with much in the way of 'free time' for the forseeable future - they tend to be either owned or booked fairly solidly for years ahead by organisations that have faaaarrr deeper pockets than you'n me, and aren't above using the depth of those pockets to their fullest advantage!!

    So the parking lot is starting to look pretty good, hey?!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 06-19-2022 at 07:07 PM.
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    Obviously I was hoping the data existed in a manner compiled by someone better calibrated, more consistent and more intelligent than myself - allowing me to see objectively the differences that occur in the Spyder when tire pressures change + and -.
    And I can certainly understand the cost prohibitive and time consuming nature of such testing.
    So I guess my "testing" will be limited to my own observations given the conditions of the pavement and temps on the day of choosing.
    But I will run a selection of tests varying tire pressures and do so back to back to minimally give myself some "benchmarks" that while they will apply solely to me, will at least allow me to make decisions on what objectively works best for me and then subjectively adjust based on my "feelings".
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    Very Active Member troop's Avatar
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    Car tires are rated and tested on .. cars. Skid pan, water, coefficient of friction on different surfaces, heat build up, snow, etc etc are all tested on cars. What works well on cars in the tire industry is not a guarantee on Spyders. Hell, a fully loaded RT weighs in at, what, about 1500# with two passengers/luggage? A Mazda Miata weighs in at over 1K more, so load ratings aren't compatible. Plus, the obvious of missing a fourth tire. We can surmise that a grippy auto tire might translate into a grippy tire for a Spyder. Also, a long tread life rating may also mean a less grippy tire. It'd be nice to see a deep pocket group do some actual auto type testing on a Spyder, but you know it ain't gonna be BRP. Hell, I'm liking my "Mike" recommended Vredesteins on my fronts. I'm also really liking my 215/60r15 Goodyear Ultra Grip after years of year round use on a few squads. My rambling is over . Carry on .....


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    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasDan View Post
    ......
    But I will run a selection of tests varying tire pressures and do so back to back to minimally give myself some "benchmarks" that while they will apply solely to me, will at least allow me to make decisions on what objectively works best for me and then subjectively adjust based on my "feelings".
    Add in some Emergency Braking/Panic Stops & Steering/Cornering tests & that's exactly what I do whenever I get a new/new to me vehicle &/or tire/s . And if I collect a vehicle that I'm going to be driving for anything much more than a quick/short local trip, I'll inspect the tires, check, & if necessary, adjust the tire pressures before I get in (to me, it's the same thing as adjusting the seat & mirrors! ) then do a few Emergency/Panic stops with some steering thrown in during the first few miles of driving it - just to be sure to be sure.
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    My Butt Tells Me.....

    With properly inflated CTs on my Spyder and properly inflated tires on my GW trike, my traction/stopping distance is better than I have in my Buick. Without taking exact measurements, I believe our 3 wheel vehicles have more contact patch per vehicle weight than most family sedans do. That would tend to cause us to have a higher tendency towards hydroplaning (which we have). But also better traction for braking and riding twisties. My uneducated guesses are that we are better off than most vehicles on the road regardless of our tire brand. And given that proper tire pressures are maintained, there would be very small differences between brands. Probably too small to measure by us mere mortals. Anyway, that's what my butt tells me..... Jim
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    Quote Originally Posted by troop View Post
    Car tires are rated and tested on .. cars. Skid pan, water, coefficient of friction on different surfaces, heat build up, snow, etc etc are all tested on cars. What works well on cars in the tire industry is not a guarantee on Spyders. Hell, a fully loaded RT weighs in at, what, about 1500# with two passengers/luggage? A Mazda Miata weighs in at over 1K more, so load ratings aren't compatible. Plus, the obvious of missing a fourth tire. We can surmise that a grippy auto tire might translate into a grippy tire for a Spyder. Also, a long tread life rating may also mean a less grippy tire. It'd be nice to see a deep pocket group do some actual auto type testing on a Spyder, but you know it ain't gonna be BRP. Hell, I'm liking my "Mike" recommended Vredesteins on my fronts. I'm also really liking my 215/60r15 Goodyear Ultra Grip after years of year round use on a few squads. My rambling is over . Carry on .....
    Troop thanks for the kind words ..... and you actually began - what I was going to add to Peter's above post (... Thank you also Peter for your kind words ) .... Actually there is a direct correlation to Tires tested on Auto's and what you can expect those same tires ( using adjusted PSI's _ ie. lower ) to perform on a Spyder or Ryker .... Science is Science, and can be applied to different weight Veh's. and get similar results. I have yet to see a HIGHLY Rated CAR tire - when used on a Spyder ( psi adjusted for weight ) that didn't achieve similar results. Years & years ago I found the General Altimax RT43, I highly recommended it and 100's if not thousands of folks here bought and used them .... and were hugely happy with them ( at the proper PSI ) .... after a quite a few years I discovered the VREDESTEIN tire co. & then recommended their Q-5, and now their newer QUATRAC model .... again many, many folks listened and bought them .... also a very happy group ... Both Peter and I have had extensive training done by Professionals, mine was done through my employer ( a Vermont Police dept ) where I was an accident investigator for 20+ years. Kudo's to you for trying to do your own tire testing. .... but it will still be " Butt " testing, if your Butt was attached to either Lewis Hamilton or Max Verstappen ( both top F-1 drivers ) I would pay close attention to your recommendations. .... As Peter said " Tire testing " is quite difficult and to be done correctly is going to cost boat load of money .... hope this helps Vegasdan out ..... regards .... Mike
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 06-19-2022 at 09:15 PM. Reason: Yeras?? Years ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Troop thanks for the kind words ..... and you actually began - what I was going to add to Peter's above post (... Thank you also Peter for your kind words ) .... Actually there is a direct correlation to Tires tested on Auto's and what you can expect those same tires ( using adjusted PSI's _ ie. lower ) to perform on a Spyder or Ryker .... Science is Science, and can be applied to different weight Veh's. and get similar results. I have yet to see a HIGHLY Rated CAR tire - when used on a Spyder ( psi adjusted for weight ) that didn't achieve similar results. Years & years ago I found the General Altimax RT43, I highly recommended it and 100's if not thousands of folks here bought and used them .... and were hugely happy with them ( at the proper PSI ) .... after a quite a few years I discovered the VREDESTEIN tire co. & then recommended their Q-5, and now their newer QUATRAC model .... again many, many folks listened and bought them .... also a very happy group ... Both Peter and I have had extensive training done by Professionals, mine was done through my employer ( a Vermont Police dept ) where I was an accident investigator for 20+ years. Kudo's to you for trying to do your own tire testing. .... but it will still be " Butt " testing, if your Butt was attached to either Lewis Hamilton or Max Verstappen ( both top F-1 drivers ) I would pay close attention to your recommendations. .... As Peter said " Tire testing " is quite difficult and to be done correctly is going to cost boat load of money .... hope this helps Vegasdan out ..... regards .... Mike
    Mike, I took your advice and put Quatracs on the front of my RT. I have a Michelin on the rear. What pressure do you recommend for those tires, front and rear? Thanks, Steve

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    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCCMPR View Post
    Mike, I took your advice and put Quatracs on the front of my RT. I have a Michelin on the rear. What pressure do you recommend for those tires, front and rear? Thanks, Steve
    Peter and I have looked at the Auto tires used on a Spyder thing a long time ago .... we recommend 15 ( softer ride ) to 17 ( more aggressive riding ) PSI's for the fronts .... and 18-19 for the REAR ..... adding a pass. and gear and a trailer doesn't change this if using AUTO tires .... Kenda's will be different .... Mike
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 06-20-2022 at 06:44 PM. Reason: tirtes... ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasDan View Post
    I'm curious - has anyone or any organization even done any OBJECTIVE tire testing on the Spyder re: tire pressures and handling, braking, acceleration, etc.? We read a lot of "butt" dyno reports (and I'm not discounting any of that as the butt can be very accurate), but (see what I did there?) actual testing with numbers and data sets?
    Track tests, cone tests, braking distances at different pressures under the same controlled conditions?

    And the differences in same on a unladen F3 vs a fully loaded RT - I would like to know with data sets what affect a pound (two pounds, three pounds) +/- actually has.

    Or I will have to get off my lazy butt and spend an afternoon in an empty parking lot with the air compressor, stopwatch and measuring tape for myself.
    I'm sure BRP has a ton of data on tire performance, but they sure aren't going to share it publicly. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if they have data on car tire performance on Spyders.

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    Very Active Member PaladinLV's Avatar
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    Why is it, people these days that buy Bike/Trikes/MCs but SPECIALLY CanAms, ask for data or information they NEVER asked or WOULD never ask when buying a car?
    Do they test their oils for their 4 wheel vehicles, their brake pads, air filters, oil filters, their shocks, their (fill-in the blank).
    Maybe I am in the MINORITY but in 57 years of riding, I test drove the bike, made the choice and purchased and then just RODE!
    Starting feel inadequate for all those years I missed WORRYING and instead had FUN.

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    AJ, 50 years of riding, over 22 brands and models, +1 on your comments, still having fun, (hope to continue if my Spyder ever shows up), ........................
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