RT rescued from graveyard

[megagame]

I'll be using this thread as placeholder for my pics and progress in repairing my spyder which i bought after previous owner crashed and bent frame.

Maybe this will be usefull to someone.

This is before I started my work.

Bez tytułu.jpg

There is no front, damaged rear, multiple parts missing, no sensors, bent frame, missing rods, damaged coolers. etc.

[megagame]

Upper a-arms were bought from newer model but unfortunately length was not the same. The ones on older RT are longer.



Some cutting, grinding and welding and it's done.

[MONK]

I salute you for taking on a challenge like this but honestly this one might be destined for the scrap heap/parts bin. By the time you bolt the few remaining pieces on a new frame and purchase/install new parts (the tupperware isn't cheap), you probably could have bought a really nice used (but complete) unit.

Not trying to deter you and maybe RTs are scarce in Poland so this is the only way to go but that really does look like a lot of expensive work.

[megagame]

Everything removed and frame cutting starts. Old USA lathe from 1934 (southbend). Somehow it ended in Poland .



After some bending and welding.

Plates on left and right side which are holding coolers were removed. They will be done the same way as in MY2013.
I'm still not sure how front will look like so I'm not doing these right now.



Now with Fox shocks from newer model I need to fit upper mounts for shocks



Engine front mount was removed too (big plate between front part of frame and lower horizontal part) and welded afterwards to fit engine properly in case frame dimension has changed a bit. Engine test fitment below.

[megagame]

Now lokg process of fitting electric harness.



There was coolant temperature sensor missing. I used one for many toyota's and other makes. One of oem numbers is AS2140. I used FEBI.
Thread is M12x1.5. Newer models have different sensor.



Off course sensor was removed by someone and plug was remover from harness as well . I've repaired harness and woila, it works. As i remember specification is 2500ohm @ 20*C for temp. sensor.

[megagame]

At this point I starged the engine and there are problems with DPS and ABS. Basically BUDS is reporting both of them are damaged.

I've tried to fix DPS but it is glued probably with resin to it's housing. I will try to mimic DPS using CAN bus and I will remove electric motor to remove any resistance which is caused by gears and motor inside DPS.

Torque sensor is non replecable. It's produced by Megatech in Canada. I could not find any part numbers found inside DPS.

For now work is in progress so we will see how it goes with DPS.

IMG_20201129_154712.jpg

One error is because of no seat. Connector was damaged so I've had to replace it. It is DEUTCHE DT 3 pin connector.


No harness for cargo as well and no radio so new harness will be produced by me. There are more cables in CIC connectors than on schematics, probably because same harness is used for older models as well to have same production line for many models.


Brake master cylinder was used from LAGUNA III 07-15r. BOSCH 0204Y21951 0204051440. It fits but reservoid needs to be removed and hose fittings needs to be installed in place of laguna reservoir. Also, bolts to hold brake lines are M10 x 1 in spyder and new master cylinder is M12 x 1 so two ends of brake line were drilled from 10mm to 12mm. No leaks and still plenty of space for washers and it works great.

[KX5062]

Cool project. Good luck and keep us gearheads/petrolheads posted.

[Eviltwin]

Very ambitious. But not seeing all the photos in the thread.

[ARtraveler]

Very ambitious project. Will eagerly look forward to your reports.

[RICZ]

You are certainly resourceful, Acquiring parts from other vehicles and making them work on the Spyder. This project will keep you out of the pool hall for a long time.
Where in Poland? I am familiar with your country. I had family who had a one way train ride to Auschwitz.

[AbNormy]

Very ambitious project. Will eagerly look forward to your reports.

and more pics! it can be done! always wonder where the dead spyders go here in the US I seldom see used parts like from wreck for sale. Once in awhile there'll be whole bikes people are parting out but they usually seemed really proud of the parts.

[megagame]

I salute you for taking on a challenge like this but honestly this one might be destined for the scrap heap/parts bin. By the time you bolt the few remaining pieces on a new frame and purchase/install new parts (the tupperware isn't cheap), you probably could have bought a really nice used (but complete) unit.

Not trying to deter you and maybe RTs are scarce in Poland so this is the only way to go but that really does look like a lot of expensive work.

I've bought this one for 2,5k USD. My goal was to keep within 5k USD but ABS unit did not allow that.
To be honest when I bought this spyder I didn't know how many things could fail because of bad engineering. Normally I don't use cars/bikes with too much electronics. I have older Hilux, Honda from 93 and old bikes like KLX 650 from 94. They all run great. If something happens you can fix them with simple tools. This is not the case with spyder and this is bad judgement from my side. But, I still want to learn how things are done and want to be first to fix problems which are giving people headache.

Also, I hate when things (expensive and cheap) are thrown to garbage.

[megagame]

Very ambitious. But not seeing all the photos in the thread.

I've moved photos to google. Don't know why but forum server probably rejected them. They were there at the beginning but disappeared. Now they are back.

[megagame]

You are certainly resourceful, Acquiring parts from other vehicles and making them work on the Spyder. This project will keep you out of the pool hall for a long time.
Where in Poland? I am familiar with your country. I had family who had a one way train ride to Auschwitz.

It takes some time to find almost same parts and customize them to work with spider but it is fun when you realize you've paid 8$ for brake master cylinder (perfect condition) because it is for citroen and it is working great.

I'm from Kalisz but staying in Poznan for couple of years now. I have friends now far from Auschwitz as well.

[megagame]

Because of fault p551 and p552 and no data in BUDS from torque sensor I know DPS is damaged. I've removed dps housing to check electronic board but it is glued in many placed to housing.
I don't want to buy expensive DPS to help me with steering in low speeds. After steering without dps couple of times I don't need it.

I removed electric motor and made a plug to remove as much resistance from DPS unit as possible.





I will try to mimic DPS with help of Arduino and send CAN messages so that ecu will not show any fault. I'm in process of analyzing messages but I don't have proper DPS and "working" messages so this will take some time and is not a priority.

Right now I know DPS is sending message 330. At byte 6 there is counter and byte 7 is checksum made of XOR of each byte in message:

0x330 a0 a1 a2 a3 a4 a5 nn cc. nn is counter 00-0F and cc = (((((a0 xor a1) xor a2) xor a3) xor a4) xor a5).

12 messages are sent in pack of 3 x 4:
4x 00 05 52 01 FF FF 0n cc
4x 00 05 51 01 FF FF 0n cc
4x 00 99 99 01 FF FF 0n cc

01 at the beginning is 00, after couple of seconds when key is turned to ON it changes to 01.

When key is turned off there are some messages with C1 as byte 1 but it happens at the end so I don't think it has any real meaning.

BTW I'm software developer with decade+ experience so this is not an issue for me to mess with those things. Hopefully I will wrap this spyder around your finger

[megagame]

I know some people bought MPI3 with BUDS on sale. You could use BUSMASTER (free app from bosch) to log incoming messages. It would be very helpfull to see messages from working DPS.

In exchange I will analyze messages from YAW sensor (ID 0x303). Guess what will happen if we will trick yaw sensor and acceleration sensor .


I'm not sure if steering sensor is a limiter as well. Before I will actually start using and testing spyder on the road, I will not know how it behaves and why. Right now I have 100 meters on in - not too much. It is not registered also so no help with tricking ecu at least before february 21.

[PMK]

As a suggestion towards simplification, and seeing the amount of effort you are expending. Have you considered, and you seem capable, to remove the Spyders oem chassis computer and engine computer setup entirely, and remove the applicable input transducers? Then find an engine computer from an Aprillia for engine management. Ridden smartly, you might only wish to incorporate an abs control system.

[Jdr00ejr]

My hat's off to you sir. This sounds like something I might get ambitious enough to tackle and all my friends would call me crazy. I will watch this with great anticipation.

[blacklightning]

I wish I had 1/2 of your skill set. I would be transplanting a second gen Vmax engine into that thing and riding the wheels off of it. Great job of keeping us updated too.

[IdahoMtnSpyder]

I'm not sure if steering sensor is a limiter as well. Before I will actually start using and testing spyder on the road, I will not know how it behaves and why. Right now I have 100 meters on in - not too much. It is not registered also so no help with tricking ecu at least before february 21.

As I understand it the steering angle sensor is one of the inputs to determine how much torque is applied by the DPS. It's probably one of the inputs into the VSS to automatically limit speed and braking in a sharp turn.

To use BUSMASTER is anything else needed other than the s/w loaded on the computer? Of course BUDS is needed.

[megagame]

As a suggestion towards simplification, and seeing the amount of effort you are expending. Have you considered, and you seem capable, to remove the Spyders oem chassis computer and engine computer setup entirely, and remove the applicable input transducers? Then find an engine computer from an Aprillia for engine management. Ridden smartly, you might only wish to incorporate an abs control system.

That was my first idea but I wanted to finish the frame and afterwards check if engine is working. When I bought it everything was in pieces therefore I could not start the engine.
Now after solving many problems I did not expect to see I am a little bit exhausted and for the time beeing I will keep it as is. I will try to mess with it using can bus and YAW/ACC sensor a bit. I have one spare sensor to play with it at home.

But, I've made some research and if I would go that route my pick would be Megasquirt as ECU and Microsquirt or raspbery as trans control. It would make sense to remove everything if oem ECM would
not work and I would know how to gain some power. But I'm not a tuner and this would cost a bit to modify engine peripherals to gain some HP. My biggest goal was to stay within 5k USD for everything and at the moment I'm 5,5k and no front so I still have some things with high priority to do.

Cargo harness is missing and I need to redo it as next step to have working lights - I need to register it before end of the year (gov regulations). Afterwards winter so only home work (playing with can bus) and once outside temperature will be ok, front fabrication (epoxy and carbon fiber). Lot of work but it is fan in general

[megagame]

As I understand it the steering angle sensor is one of the inputs to determine how much torque is applied by the DPS. It's probably one of the inputs into the VSS to automatically limit speed and braking in a sharp turn.

To use BUSMASTER is anything else needed other than the s/w loaded on the computer? Of course BUDS is needed.

Yes, steering sensor is a must for ESC (electronic stability control) but I'm not sure for what exact purpose. ESC is not limiting engine torque and yaw rate and XY acceleration is used from another sensor. There is a document publicly available for Bosch M4 abs describing how whole system works and what data is used. You could basically buy this kit for 6k usd and have esc+abs on a bicycle . Once I will start messing with can bus and test my spyder on wet surface then we will see what is happening when.

BUDS is not required, in fact it's best to not use buds during logging because BUDS is communicating with spyder and traffic will be harder to decipher. IXXAT (MPI3) device needs to be connected but instead of BUDS you should open busmaster. If you have win10 there is dll with current drivers to allow getting data from ixxat (MPI3) (https://github.com/rbei-etas/busmaster/issues/1191). BUDS is using IXXAT VCI 4 drivers on windows 10 because ixxat (mpi3) is not working with vci 3 drivers on widows 10. Sorry for using IXXAT instead of MPI - MPI is just a name and stickers on IXXAT USB to can V2 device https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/p...erface-USB.jpg.

So, MPI3 + busmaster (on win10 dll with proper drivers in busmaster folder). That is all. Off course key on and logging on busmaster enabled with file as output. Activate for logging will be enabled when you configure logging (just tick checkbox that logging goes to file).

This for example is only ECU transmission without anything other connected.


Some messages are static, some change a little, most of them have counters as byte 6 or 7. Busmaster will write something like this:

17:31:34:1476 Rx 1 0x120 s 8 00 00 53 41 96 00 01 85
17:31:34:1479 Rx 1 0x300 s 8 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00
17:31:34:1481 Rx 1 0x308 s 8 40 80 00 00 00 00 00 00
17:31:34:1484 Rx 1 0x342 s 8 58 2D 00 00 7D 00 00 00
17:31:34:1486 Rx 1 0x516 s 8 02 01 81 01 00 00 00 01
17:31:34:1489 Rx 1 0x102 s 8 00 00 15 3E 3F C8 01 DD
17:31:34:1491 Rx 1 0x103 s 8 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 01
17:31:34:1494 Rx 1 0x310 s 8 87 00 00 00 00 00 01 86
17:31:34:1496 Rx 1 0x120 s 8 00 A5 53 41 96 00 02 23
17:31:34:1498 Rx 1 0x300 s 8 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00
17:31:34:1501 Rx 1 0x308 s 8 40 80 00 08 00 00 00 00
17:31:34:1503 Rx 1 0x342 s 8 58 2D 00 00 7D 00 00 00
17:31:34:1506 Rx 1 0x516 s 8 02 01 81 01 00 00 00 01
17:31:34:1586 Rx 1 0x102 s 8 00 00 15 3E 3F C8 02 DE
17:31:34:1589 Rx 1 0x103 s 8 00 00 00 00 00 00 02 02
17:31:34:1591 Rx 1 0x310 s 8 87 00 00 00 00 00 02 85
17:31:34:1686 Rx 1 0x102 s 8 00 00 15 3E 3F C8 03 DF
17:31:34:1688 Rx 1 0x103 s 8 00 00 00 00 00 00 03 03
17:31:34:1691 Rx 1 0x310 s 8 87 00 00 00 00 00 03 84
17:31:34:1693 Rx 1 0x120 s 8 20 A5 53 41 96 00 03 02
17:31:34:1696 Rx 1 0x300 s 8 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00
17:31:34:1698 Rx 1 0x308 s 8 40 80 00 08 00 00 00 00
17:31:34:1701 Rx 1 0x342 s 8 58 2D 00 00 7C 00 00 00
17:31:34:1703 Rx 1 0x516 s 8 02 01 81 01 00 00 00 01
17:31:34:1786 Rx 1 0x102 s 8 00 00 15 3E 3F C8 04 D8
17:31:34:1789 Rx 1 0x103 s 8 00 00 00 00 00 00 04 04
17:31:34:1791 Rx 1 0x310 s 8 87 00 00 00 00 00 04 83
17:31:34:1886 Rx 1 0x102 s 8 00 00 1A 3E 3F C8 05 D6
17:31:34:1888 Rx 1 0x103 s 8 00 00 00 00 00 00 05 05
17:31:34:1890 Rx 1 0x310 s 8 87 00 00 00 00 00 05 82
17:31:34:1894 Rx 1 0x120 s 8 20 A5 53 41 96 00 04 05
17:31:34:1896 Rx 1 0x300 s 8 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00
17:31:34:1899 Rx 1 0x308 s 8 40 80 00 08 00 00 00 00
17:31:34:1901 Rx 1 0x342 s 8 58 2D C3 03 7A 00 00 00
17:31:34:1903 Rx 1 0x516 s 8 02 01 81 01 00 00 00 01
17:31:34:1986 Rx 1 0x102 s 8 00 00 34 3E 3F C8 06 FB
17:31:34:1988 Rx 1 0x103 s 8 00 00 00 00 00 00 06 06
17:31:34:1991 Rx 1 0x310 s 8 87 00 00 00 00 00 06 81
17:31:34:2086 Rx 1 0x102 s 8 00 00 4F 3E 3F C8 07 81
17:31:34:2088 Rx 1 0x103 s 8 00 00 00 00 00 00 07 07
17:31:34:2091 Rx 1 0x310 s 8 87 00 00 00 00 00 07 80
17:31:34:2093 Rx 1 0x120 s 8 20 A5 83 41 96 00 05 D4
17:31:34:2096 Rx 1 0x300 s 8 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00
17:31:34:2098 Rx 1 0x308 s 8 40 80 00 08 00 00 00 00
17:31:34:2101 Rx 1 0x342 s 8 58 2D C3 03 7C 00 00 00
17:31:34:2103 Rx 1 0x516 s 8 02 01 81 01 00 00 00 01
17:31:34:2186 Rx 1 0x102 s 8 00 00 5D 3E 3F C8 08 9C
17:31:34:2188 Rx 1 0x103 s 8 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 08
17:31:34:2191 Rx 1 0x310 s 8 87 00 00 00 00 00 08 8F
17:31:34:2286 Rx 1 0x102 s 8 00 00 63 3E 3F C8 09 A3
17:31:34:2288 Rx 1 0x103 s 8 00 00 00 00 00 00 09 09
17:31:34:2290 Rx 1 0x310 s 8 07 00 00 00 00 00 09 0E
17:31:34:2294 Rx 1 0x120 s 8 20 A5 83 41 96 00 06 D7
17:31:34:2296 Rx 1 0x300 s 8 00 00 FF FF 00 00 00 00

[megagame]

I've finished bleeding brakes. I tried twice because first time, even with buds and vacuum it wasn't successful. I've forgot to unbolt front brake calipers and put them so that bleeder is above brake lines. With that approach buds was not needed for removing air from lines.

I've checked BLS and pressure sensor - all seems ok. Unfortunatel after few meters of ride again there is error C0044 which indicates problem with ABS pressure sensor or brake light switch. I've started engine again and no problem. On Buds error has occured but nothing else. BLS working, pressure ok. No other errors regarding communication issues or anything else.



I have no idea what is going on. Maybe there is a problem because BLS is coming when pressure is too low, maybe brake light should come out above ex. 500kPa, or it is other way around. Right now my BLS activates when 200kPa is already applied to brakes.
Actually, when I think about it, BLS should come out before any pressure reading, otherwise it doesn't make sense. There should be indication that braking is applied before actual braking happens. Maybe this is a problem.
Does anyone could check their kPa reading when brake light is activated?

[cptjam]

Very cool! I’ll keep watching. Great so far! Joe

[megagame]

Belt tension could be checked with something as simple as fishing scale. According to someone from the forum 4,5kg should cause deflection of 18mm at center of the belt.



I've painted my steering rods which were fabricated from steel precision pipe and parts made for can am outlander G2. Cost me 50$ to make both left and right side.



Lots of parts are missing unfortunatel. I still need to made mounts for stabilizer bar. I was surprised that oem links for stabilizer bare are made from plastic. They could be changed very fast using heim joint rod ends but for now I'm keeping this plastic.

Does anybody know what is this below? It looks like steel strap for ground but it is definetely not that. Maybe something to stop suspension from from going too much down like in racing prerunner trucks .