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  1. #1
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    Default Red Dust, Sprocket issues

    I am a new owner of a 2019 F3L I have to admit little concerned about the stories that i am reading. I only have 600 miles on it so far.
    looking for suggestions besides regular check ups

    Thanks your help

  2. #2
    Very Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    You're overthinking it. Ride it and don't worry. Monthly, remove the front pulley cover - just 3 screws - and take a peek for your peace of mind.
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.

  3. #3
    Very Active Member Mikey's Avatar
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    Ride more, worry less!!! Keep your fluids where there suppose to be, check your tire pressures, peak at your belt alignment every now and then when you get off the bike. And ride it like you stole it!!

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    I don't know how the how the sprocket and splined shaft could be an different than the RT's. I don't see mention of red dust appearing on those models. What gives, just saying.

  5. #5
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    If you want to have minimal worries, remove that new pulley, clean any residue lube if any from assembly. Coat the splines with moly lube for spline assemblies and reassemble. Make a note of the mileage and reaccomplish the task during routine maintenance around 15,000 miles. Far better to do this than experience failure later, or worse, ruin the gearbox shaft.

  6. #6
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    Where is this front pulley located?

  7. #7
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acdcking12 View Post
    Where is this front pulley located?
    Stand behind your Spyder, look at the rear wheel on the left side. There is a 1 inch wide black rubber belt. Follow that belt all the way forward until it goes around the pulley and back to the rear wheel. That would be the front pulley.

  8. #8
    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    I would like to put some perspective on this. On the homepage of Spyderlovers it says "Most users ever online was 19,915, 07-23-2020 at 09:21 PM." So I would think there are more than 20,000 active enough users that would post if they had a problem. So I will use 20,000. I guess that maybe 1/4 are ryker owners. So they will not have the front pulley issue. So that leaves 15,000 Spyder owners. So the front pulley issue comes up maybe 10 to 15 times a year. A serious problem for sure. But that makes the odds you having this issue. 1 in 1000 owners. So don't panic. Just inspect from time to time.

    This is just my WAG.

    2018 F3 LIMITED

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the imput, will look into more when I do the 1st service at 3000miles

  10. #10
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcolabella View Post
    Thanks for the imput, will look into more when I do the 1st service at 3000miles

    Decent plan. How many miles do you expect to ride per year? That will give basis on how frequently to inspect and relube the splines. There is no shame in accomplishing preventive maintenance to improve reliability.

    Many owners get upset that there is no permanent fix and also state it is not a scheduled maintenance item. While 100% true, those same owners get even more upset when they have complete pulley failure.

    Always good to have a reliable motorcycle.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post
    If you want to have minimal worries, remove that new pulley, clean any residue lube if any from assembly. Coat the splines with moly lube for spline assemblies and reassemble. Make a note of the mileage and reaccomplish the task during routine maintenance around 15,000 miles. Far better to do this than experience failure later, or worse, ruin the gearbox shaft.
    I'm with PMK on this. There is many front sprocket failures, the dealers know about the issue and BRP also knows about the issue. Here in the UK BRP does not challenge a claim for a replacement sprocket the issue is so prevalent. However, your 2019 will be fitted with a modified sprocket and it should also be tightened to the revised higher torque. With a bit of luck you will be OK. But, it's no use just looking to see whether it's OK occasionally because if it fails, by the time you find the red dust the damage is done and you'll need a new sprocket, plus when the sprocket fails it also frets the end of the splined drive shaft and the replacement sprocket will never seat quite as well as it originally did. If you can do the work yourself it's a straightforward task, doesn't take long and will give you peace of mind for the future.

    PMK has his favourite Moly grease but you can buy constant velocity joint grease in your local auto store. It's high spec moly grease and will be very satisfactory.

    For info, the splines should not be carrying the driving force on the sprocket, they are locators for the sprocket and a failsafe should an issue develop. The driving force is transmitted via the frictional grip of the driving shaft end and the sprocket end drive face. The tightening torque of the bolt applies pressure to the sprocket to generate this friction. The latest sprockets have an increased area drive face and the tightening torque of the bolt is also increased to provide more friction than the previous Spyders had. We are recommending the moly grease as a saviour should there be any movement of the sprocket on the splines.

    It's your call as to whether you trust BRP to have got it right on your machine. If the dust does appear, I bet you'll regret not having prevented the issue.
    Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
    Rule#1: Refer to rule #2.

  12. #12
    Very Active Member ABQSpyder's Avatar
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    I had mine replace and when they took it off very little damage but replaced it any way and there was a higher torque bolt tightening and a different bolt.

  13. #13
    Very Active Member Peteoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acdcking12 View Post
    Where is this front pulley located?
    ACDC, it is behind a small black panel, held in by 3 screws, above your front left floorboard/peg. Assuming you have an F3? You don’t say on your profile. If there is only grey/light brown dust on the pulley, there is currently no issue, but if it is reddish (like iron), you have an issue on the way....
    Pete
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  14. #14
    Very Active Member bmccaffrey's Avatar
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    It is something you should keep on eye on.
    I know one of the fixes is they switched locktite to green which is a bearing retainer.
    My buddy has a 16 F3T and on second one. This time ruined the spline on the shaft coming from transmission. They had to pull whole tranny apart. It was 10 weeks in the shop. I've seen more issues on facebook F3 spyder groups than on this site

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    Hi everyone, I'm a new owner of a 2016 F3L with about 1,700 miles. I just checked and don't see any dust on the pulley, but could you check my pictures? There is a little rust on the pulley itself. Cover has no dust on it either. Thanks!

    IMG_6905.jpgIMG_6906.jpg

  16. #16
    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2puttBirdie View Post
    Hi everyone, I'm a new owner of a 2016 F3L with about 1,700 miles. I just checked and don't see any dust on the pulley, but could you check my pictures? There is a little rust on the pulley itself. Cover has no dust on it either. Thanks!

    IMG_6905.jpgIMG_6906.jpg
    Visually nothing wrong there.

    2018 F3 LIMITED

  17. #17
    Active Member ingramsail's Avatar
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    I replace this on on a 2016 f3t with 29000mi.IMG_20200708_092944850 (1).jpg
    [SIGPIC][SIGPIC]

  18. #18
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkRosePetal View Post
    PMK has his favourite Moly grease but you can buy constant velocity joint grease in your local auto store. It's high spec moly grease and will be very satisfactory.

    For info, the splines should not be carrying the driving force on the sprocket, they are locators for the sprocket and a failsafe should an issue develop. The driving force is transmitted via the frictional grip of the driving shaft end and the sprocket end drive face. The tightening torque of the bolt applies pressure to the sprocket to generate this friction. The latest sprockets have an increased area drive face and the tightening torque of the bolt is also increased to provide more friction than the previous Spyders had. We are recommending the moly grease as a saviour should there be any movement of the sprocket on the splines.

    It's your call as to whether you trust BRP to have got it right on your machine. If the dust does appear, I bet you'll regret not having prevented the issue.
    Regarding moly lubes, with true spline lubes and similar products readily available, I certainly prefer those over moly fortified greases. The pastes tend to be more vicous, vs the greases that work well in rolling bearings.

    Splines...do they carry the load or not? My answer is yes, they are truly drive splines. If there were no true mechanical interface of the shaft to the pulley I would expect the surface area of the pulleys inboard and outboard mating surfaces could not provide enough “grip” to prevent the pulley from slipping on the shaft.

    On the Yamaha YZ400f & YZ426f motocross engines, the first years of production used a woodruff key design to index the primary drive gear on the crankshaft. Even those engines, with the gear retaining nut correctly torqued, with use, the key would wear. The telltale sign was a knocking as if the gearbox were coming apart. Replace the $2.00 key and problem solved. In 2001, they switched to a spline drive and had no further issues.

    The Spyder pulley sees loads in both rotating directions, this is truly not the cause of concern. Drive splines are under great pressure when loaded. That pressure and microscopic movement is how fretting corrosion occurs. Once the fretting begins, the oxide particles are very hard and abrasive, causing even greater wear. This is why, once you see the red dust, the damage has been done. Wet spline assemblies are best, for various reasons, wear being one of them.

  19. #19
    Very Active Member trikermutha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ingramsail View Post
    I replace this on on a 2016 f3t with 29000mi.IMG_20200708_092944850 (1).jpg
    For those that dont notice the hole for the pulley. The splices are worn which caused the red dust.

  20. #20
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    So with tat being said should I go ahead and lube it, and are we talking about putting the lube in where the pulley attaches to the drive

  21. #21
    Very Active Member PMK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcolabella View Post
    So with tat being said should I go ahead and lube it, and are we talking about putting the lube in where the pulley attaches to the drive
    Absolutely your call whether to remove, lube and reinstall.

    Yes, the pulley is removed. Spline in pulley and engine countershaft get cleaned and dried. Lubricate splines with moly paste and reassembly. Torque to specs.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMK View Post

    Splines...do they carry the load or not? My answer is yes, they are truly drive splines. If there were no true mechanical interface of the shaft to the pulley I would expect the surface area of the pulleys inboard and outboard mating surfaces could not provide enough “grip” to prevent the pulley from slipping on the shaft.
    I agree with you and that's where the problem lies. The surface area of cantact with the shaft face and bolt tightening pressure have not been enough to prevent movement of the sprocket relative to the shaft. Hence the fretting and water ingress problem.
    The most recent sprockets have increased contact area of the rear face by removal of the slight counterbore that previously existed. The bolt tightening torque has also been increased. Only time will tell if this proves sufficient to render the sprocket problem a non-issue. Let's hope so.
    In my case I grease the bolt threads and tighten the bolt to 115lb/ft and I've had no further problem. 7k miles so fingers crossed.

    The Spyder pulley sees loads in both rotating directions, this is truly not the cause of concern. Drive splines are under great pressure when loaded.
    There is fitting clearance between the splines and the shaft, for the splines to be loaded in both forward and reverse, by definition the sprocket would need to be able to turn suficently to take up that clearance. This is exactly the situation that needs to be avoided! It's that very movement that causes the spline, sprocket and shaft end wear.

    Imho the Spyder is kinda schizophrenic, a mixture of excellent design and engineering and seriously poor design and engineering.
    Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
    Rule#1: Refer to rule #2.

  23. #23
    Very Active Member bmccaffrey's Avatar
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    So if you are tighten to 115 ft lbs how u holding the sprocket from not turning??

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