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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by BajaRon View Post
    And they would be EXACTLY Right! If Kenda would only build a Quality Tire! Here we have a Great idea! Suffering from Terrible Execution!



    I used to get these same comments about the Custom Ignition Wire and Spark Plug set I have for the 998 V-Twin Rotax Spyder. They are less expensive than the OEM wire set and people would want to know how a cheaper product could be better than the more expensive manufacture's, as I claimed they were. I always told them the same thing. 'I can double the price if it will make you feel better!'. Sometimes price is based upon actual cost to deliver the product to the customer. Sometimes price has little to do with quality and much to do with what the seller can wring out of the customer. When you have a very limited supply product (like an only source tire), you can charge much more than the item would otherwise be worth.




    Believe me. That dealership manager is not getting paid to have your irrefutable logic register.
    with all that Ron has said

    2014 RTL Platinum & 2014 RTL Cognac
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  2. #102
    aka: akspyderman ARtraveler's Avatar
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    Five page goal achieved.

    Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow), 2015 Vulcan 900 LTD

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium). 6 Spyders, 11 years, 156,205 miles


  3. #103
    Very Active Member trikermutha's Avatar
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    Lets go for a record amount of pages on the Kenda tire.

    Hope to get the Kanine installed soon..

  4. #104
    Active Member HankD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trikermutha View Post
    Lets go for a record amount of pages on the Kenda tire.

    Hope to get the Kanine installed soon..

    To get a record page count, we would have to combine Kenda Tires with an Oil selection, something like..."I just changed my oil to generic lawnmower oil to add to my Kenda Tires, I can't wait to take a cross country trip!"

  5. #105
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    I have all 3 Kenda Canine tires for my F3-T. Just need to get it to the dealer to have them put on.

  6. #106
    aka: akspyderman ARtraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HankD View Post
    To get a record page count, we would have to combine Kenda Tires with an Oil selection, something like..."I just changed my oil to generic lawnmower oil to add to my Kenda Tires, I can't wait to take a cross country trip!"
    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! The endless possibilities.

    Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow), 2015 Vulcan 900 LTD

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium). 6 Spyders, 11 years, 156,205 miles


  7. #107
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARtraveler View Post
    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! The endless horror!
    Fixed it for you AR!


    2013 RT Ltd

  8. #108
    Very Active Member trikermutha's Avatar
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    Let's up it one tires,oil,and DESS. That should set a record.

  9. #109
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    Kenda has been around for many years. They have made a bazillion bicycle tires.. as well as hand truck tires and go-kart tires. I was wondering the same thing when I got my Spyder if they were ready for the big time. I say they are fine as any and have been doing a good job on most of our spyders. Maybe a little soft and not the longest life but that's what the Spyder engineers decided to use in the end. I just got my Spyder in August of 19' & the time hasn't came yet for me to cross the bridge of selecting new tires so I'm not sure what I'll do but knowing me, I'll probably end up getting a new set of these Kenda Kanines.

  10. #110
    Very Active Member h0gr1der's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HankD View Post
    To get a record page count, we would have to combine Kenda Tires with an Oil selection, something like..."I just changed my oil to generic lawnmower oil to add to my Kenda Tires, I can't wait to take a cross country trip!"
    Ok, I'll contribute. So how do you think a Kenda Canine will handle with a Amsoil leak onto the rear treads vs a Mobil 1 racing leak onto the treads? Do you suppose the oil leaks will exacerbate the parking brake failures on the '18 and '19 models, especially when fitted with the Kenda tires?
    h0gr1der
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    States Visited on Less than 4 wheels.

  11. #111
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MusicMike View Post
    Kenda has been around for many years. They have made a bazillion bicycle tires.. as well as hand truck tires and go-kart tires. I was wondering the same thing when I got my Spyder if they were ready for the big time. I say they are fine as any and have been doing a good job on most of our spyders. Maybe a little soft and not the longest life but that's what the Spyder engineers decided to use in the end. I just got my Spyder in August of 19' & the time hasn't came yet for me to cross the bridge of selecting new tires so I'm not sure what I'll do but knowing me, I'll probably end up getting a new set of these Kenda Kanines.
    " Spyder engineers decided " ….. friend this was all about the money and nothing else - period ….. Mike

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    " Spyder engineers decided " ….. friend this was all about the money and nothing else - period ….. Mike
    Mike, don't you think every product decision involves a cost consideration?

    2014 RTL Platinum & 2014 RTL Cognac
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  13. #113
    Member timd35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h0gr1der View Post
    Ok, I'll contribute. So how do you think a Kenda Canine will handle with a Amsoil leak onto the rear treads vs a Mobil 1 racing leak onto the treads? Do you suppose the oil leaks will exacerbate the parking brake failures on the '18 and '19 models, especially when fitted with the Kenda tires?
    Better yet. What oil, synthetic or blended, should be used to make Kenda Kanine's. Maybe the synthetic, instead of crude oil, would increase miles between changes. Then we could have the discussion of which synthetic....

  14. #114
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    I am taking my F3-T up to the dealership tomorrow and they are balancing and mounting all new Kenda Canine's on the front and back. I am pretty excited about it.

  15. #115
    aka: akspyderman ARtraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acdcking12 View Post
    I am taking my F3-T up to the dealership tomorrow and they are balancing and mounting all new Kenda Canine's on the front and back. I am pretty excited about it.
    The site will be looking forward to your report. I do like that new "beefier" look.
    Last edited by ARtraveler; 01-31-2020 at 11:21 AM.

    Currently Owned: 2019 F3 Limited, 2014 RTS-SE6 (yellow), 2015 Vulcan 900 LTD

    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium). 6 Spyders, 11 years, 156,205 miles


  16. #116
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    Mike, don't you think every product decision involves a cost consideration?
    Absolutely - that's just " economics 101 " ….. however in the case of BRP choosing Kenda, from everything I've read or learned from other sources …. Kenda was chosen based almost entirely on the Money factor. There is no LEGAL requirement ( at least in the U.S. ) that Spyders MUST have some kind of Mtc. endorsement on /for the tires ….. I've posted ( numerous times ) that H.D. sells their Trikes with DUNLOP ( auto type ) tires that are mounted at the factory...… Google it, if you don't believe me ….. () PS I don't check this on a daily or weekly basis, but last year this is what HD was doing ) ….. Mike

  17. #117
    Active Member RapidSpyder's Avatar
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    But the real question everyone wants to know is how much is it contributing to global warming
    Trent - 2017 asphalt grey RT Limited, yes I need to update my pic.
    Ultimate Seat, Baha Ronís sway bar, Kumho rear tire.



    HE>I

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Absolutely - that's just " economics 101 " ….. however in the case of BRP choosing Kenda, from everything I've read or learned from other sources …. Kenda was chosen based almost entirely on the Money factor. There is no LEGAL requirement ( at least in the U.S. ) that Spyders MUST have some kind of Mtc. endorsement on /for the tires ….. I've posted ( numerous times ) that H.D. sells their Trikes with DUNLOP ( auto type ) tires that are mounted at the factory...… Google it, if you don't believe me ….. () PS I don't check this on a daily or weekly basis, but last year this is what HD was doing ) ….. Mike

    While I agree that all manufactures base decisions on the money factor, I am not sure about these tire statements. There are cheaper tires than the Kenda and if BRP buys in bulk they are even less expensive. When I traded in my 14 with Kuhmo on rear and Federals on front for my 18 I got caught in a downpour on the way home. I was really surprised at how much better the stock tires on the 18 felt compared to the tires I had on the 14. I know it is all very subjective, but that was my experience. As for Harleys.... If you read the forums you will see how many think the Dunlops are crap and have switched to Michelin or other brands.... again subjective.

    Does anyone know if the new Kenda's are still 2 ply... just curious... I have them on the Slingshot I bought as well and they seem to perform well... They are Kenda Kaisers on the Sling.
    When the going gets tough...Downshift..

  19. #119
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billythekidd View Post
    While I agree that all manufactures base decisions on the money factor, I am not sure about these tire statements. There are cheaper tires than the Kenda and if BRP buys in bulk they are even less expensive. When I traded in my 14 with Kuhmo on rear and Federals on front for my 18 I got caught in a downpour on the way home. I was really surprised at how much better the stock tires on the 18 felt compared to the tires I had on the 14. I know it is all very subjective, but that was my experience. As for Harleys.... If you read the forums you will see how many think the Dunlops are crap and have switched to Michelin or other brands.... again subjective.

    Does anyone know if the new Kenda's are still 2 ply... just curious... I have them on the Slingshot I bought as well and they seem to perform well... They are Kenda Kaisers on the Sling.
    When using auto tires on any Spyder, a lower PSI will give better traction - wet or dry ……. and I'll bet the Michelins or other brands - are NOT MTC tires either !!! …. MY point had nothing to do with them being Dunlop's … it was that they were factory mounted and they weren't MTC. TIRES …. Mike

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Absolutely - that's just " economics 101 " ….. however in the case of BRP choosing Kenda, from everything I've read or learned from other sources …. Kenda was chosen based almost entirely on the Money factor. There is no LEGAL requirement ( at least in the U.S. ) that Spyders MUST have some kind of Mtc. endorsement on /for the tires ….. I've posted ( numerous times ) that H.D. sells their Trikes with DUNLOP ( auto type ) tires that are mounted at the factory...… Google it, if you don't believe me ….. () PS I don't check this on a daily or weekly basis, but last year this is what HD was doing ) ….. Mike
    Since the Kendas are built ONLY for our bikes, don't you think the limited market is also a factor?

    The limited production runs for these tires make them ineligible for true economies of scale, as with any specialized tire.

    Also, the number of companies interested in competing for BRP's business must be extremely small. You'd almost have to go with a smaller, boutique manufacturer I would think.

    2014 RTL Platinum & 2014 RTL Cognac
    Northern Utah in summer; Yuma, AZ in winter.

  21. #121
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    Went to dealership today and took a couple pics of the new Kenda tires a 2020 RT








  22. #122
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahPete View Post
    Since the Kendas are built ONLY for our bikes, don't you think the limited market is also a factor?

    The limited production runs for these tires make them ineligible for true economies of scale, as with any specialized tire.

    Also, the number of companies interested in competing for BRP's business must be extremely small. You'd almost have to go with a smaller, boutique manufacturer I would think.
    I'll state this this for about the 20 th time …. I have not been able ( nor has anyone else ) to find the Law / DOT rule that says our Spyders ( read that Trike ) MUST have tires that have a Motorcycle designation stamped on the sidewall.... Actually putting a Motorcycle tire with a motorcycle bead on a " J " type wheel/rim is ILLEGAL …. and the Spyders have " J " rims, it even says on the Kenda tires that they must be mounted on …… " J " type rims NOT Mtc rims ….. So if you know of a law / rule that contradicts that please let us all know !!! …. Kenda has made EVERY tire EVER put on every Spyder sold by BRP, ( for well over 125,000 bikes ) and the dealers only pay about 20% ( or less ) for the Kenda tire they sell you …. Mike ………...PS if you happen top have a Harley Davidson dealership near you , go in and see what tires they have on their Trikes

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    I'll state this this for about the 20 th time …. I have not been able ( nor has anyone else ) to find the Law / DOT rule that says our Spyders ( read that Trike ) MUST have tires that have a Motorcycle designation stamped on the sidewall.... Actually putting a Motorcycle tire with a motorcycle bead on a " J " type wheel/rim is ILLEGAL …. and the Spyders have " J " rims, it even says on the Kenda tires that they must be mounted on …… " J " type rims NOT Mtc rims ….. So if you know of a law / rule that contradicts that please let us all know !!! …. Kenda has made EVERY tire EVER put on every Spyder sold by BRP, ( for well over 125,000 bikes ) and the dealers only pay about 20% ( or less ) for the Kenda tire they sell you …. Mike ………...PS if you happen top have a Harley Davidson dealership near you , go in and see what tires they have on their Trikes
    Mike, I wasn't talking about laws, unless you consider basic economics a law. I know business economics and that's where I was coming from.

    There's another business dictum, one having to do with diminishing returns......

    2014 RTL Platinum & 2014 RTL Cognac
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  24. #124
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    I'll state this this for about the 20 th time Ö. I have not been able ( nor has anyone else ) to find the Law / DOT rule that says our Spyders ( read that Trike ) MUST have tires that have a Motorcycle designation stamped on the sidewall.... Actually putting a Motorcycle tire with a motorcycle bead on a " J " type wheel/rim is ILLEGAL Ö.
    I thought I had read in the Federal Regulations that a tire had to be labeled as to its intended use, but I can't find that specific requirement now. It might be in some official guidance or interpretation document related to the Federal regs. I'm pretty sure most tires ARE marked for their intended use, P for passenger car, LT for light truck, M/C for motorcycle, ST for special trailer, plus others. I just found a pic of a Kenda Ryker tire and it has M/C after the tire size designation. I'm sure Kenda adds the special motorcycle label to clearly show it is not a normal m/c tire even though it is in the general class of m/c tires. I'd have to look but I think the testing requirements for m/c tires are less strict than for car tires. What I have found in the Federal Regs is a requirement that the tire manufacturer must make known through publicly available documents (that does not mean free) of all the rims a particular tire has their approval to be mounted on. That document can simply make reference to specific rim styles in a reference document from any one of several tire and rim manufacturers associations. I'm sure we could find where Kenda says mounting their Spyder tires on a Spyder J rim is an approved installation, but approval may not be shown for usual car J rims. Maybe they do say that which is why the special motorcycle label. In other words Kenda's official position may essentially be that the Spyder tire can be used on any proper size J rim as long as that rim is on a motorcycle. But, and this is a big but, if Cooper or General or Vredestein, or whoever, does not say their tires are OK to mount on a Spyder rim, which probably is identified by more characteristics than just the J rim design, or that it is OK to mount their tires on any J rim including ones used on motorcycles, then a tire dealer is within his rights to refuse to mount such tires on a Spyder rim. What we need to get is the tire makers to say it's OK by them to mount a specific car tire on a Spyder rim. Or better yet, get the tire and rim manufacturers to grant blanket approvals for certain groups of tire designs to be mounted on certain groups of rim designs.

    It's really a case of splitting hairs where in the absence of a clear OK designation, the assumption is it is not OK. In our case we have plenty of experience to show that using car tires on our Spyders is NOT "not OK", but unfortunately the folks who are in the position to declare car tire use is OK don't seem to want to do that. As to legal/illegal it's a bit nebulous in my mind. Mounting a tire on a rim that is not listed as being an approved rim for that tire is contrary to the Federal Regs, or at least its intent. But I would say it is illegal only if the law states that mounting a tire in contradiction to the regulation is prohibited. If that is the case then mounting a car tire on a normal m/c rim would be illegal, but then so would be mounting a car tire on a Spyder rim if the Spyder rim is not listed by the tire maker as an OK rim to use. With the vast variety of tires and rims out in the world, and millions of combinations that are possible, it's probably nigh impossible to come up with clear regulations and exceptions to cover every situation.

    My position is use a car tire if you want, but don't get all bent out of shape at a Can Am dealer who won't mount it for you. There are plenty of other tire technicians out there who will do it.

    2014 Copper RTS

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  25. #125
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    I thought I had read in the Federal Regulations that a tire had to be labeled as to its intended use, but I can't find that specific requirement now. It might be in some official guidance or interpretation document related to the Federal regs. I'm pretty sure most tires ARE marked for their intended use, P for passenger car, LT for light truck, M/C for motorcycle, ST for special trailer, plus others. I just found a pic of a Kenda Ryker tire and it has M/C after the tire size designation. I'm sure Kenda adds the special motorcycle label to clearly show it is not a normal m/c tire even though it is in the general class of m/c tires. I'd have to look but I think the testing requirements for m/c tires are less strict than for car tires. What I have found in the Federal Regs is a requirement that the tire manufacturer must make known through publicly available documents (that does not mean free) of all the rims a particular tire has their approval to be mounted on. That document can simply make reference to specific rim styles in a reference document from any one of several tire and rim manufacturers associations. I'm sure we could find where Kenda says mounting their Spyder tires on a Spyder J rim is an approved installation, but approval may not be shown for usual car J rims. Maybe they do say that which is why the special motorcycle label. In other words Kenda's official position may essentially be that the Spyder tire can be used on any proper size J rim as long as that rim is on a motorcycle. But, and this is a big but, if Cooper or General or Vredestein, or whoever, does not say their tires are OK to mount on a Spyder rim, which probably is identified by more characteristics than just the J rim design, or that it is OK to mount their tires on any J rim including ones used on motorcycles, then a tire dealer is within his rights to refuse to mount such tires on a Spyder rim. What we need to get is the tire makers to say it's OK by them to mount a specific car tire on a Spyder rim. Or better yet, get the tire and rim manufacturers to grant blanket approvals for certain groups of tire designs to be mounted on certain groups of rim designs.

    It's really a case of splitting hairs where in the absence of a clear OK designation, the assumption is it is not OK. In our case we have plenty of experience to show that using car tires on our Spyders is NOT "not OK", but unfortunately the folks who are in the position to declare car tire use is OK don't seem to want to do that. As to legal/illegal it's a bit nebulous in my mind. Mounting a tire on a rim that is not listed as being an approved rim for that tire is contrary to the Federal Regs, or at least its intent. But I would say it is illegal only if the law states that mounting a tire in contradiction to the regulation is prohibited. If that is the case then mounting a car tire on a normal m/c rim would be illegal, but then so would be mounting a car tire on a Spyder rim if the Spyder rim is not listed by the tire maker as an OK rim to use. With the vast variety of tires and rims out in the world, and millions of combinations that are possible, it's probably nigh impossible to come up with clear regulations and exceptions to cover every situation.

    My position is use a car tire if you want, but don't get all bent out of shape at a Can Am dealer who won't mount it for you. There are plenty of other tire technicians out there who will do it.
    " bent out of shape " …. interesting. I feel bad that you went to all the trouble of typing what you did, because I didn't read much that was actually definitive …… So I simply ask - how can HD LEGALLY sell their TRIKES which are sold as Motorcycles with factory mounted CAR TIRES on them ????? ....Mike [/SIZE]

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