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  1. #26
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    There's a whole lot more info/specs from the manufacturer that we really need to know about how the tire is actually constructed & what is used in it, things including what denier cords/plies are being used, how the tread plies are applied, the thickness of the compound layers, and a heap of 'other stuff'..... things that both Kenda & BRP made really difficult to find out for the OE Spec Kendas! But we do KNOW that the OE Spec Kendas are so lightly constructed that they really NEED that 27-30 psi in them to support the loads imposed by our Spyders, and that even WITH that amount of air in there, the tread layers still 'balloon' out at speed so that grip & handling is compromised plus the tread rapidly wears in the middle couple of inches, cos that's all that's left touching the road.....

    And I suspect that given the ply details & load/pressure info we've already got on the Kenda Kanines, they too probably NEED that sort of pressure to work!! I also suspect that Kenda & BRP won't make finding the necessary info too easy, plus I suspect that the claims about providing better milage & handling than the passenger car alternatives (running at the appropriate pressure for the loading on them) are just marketing claims.....
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-21-2020 at 08:40 PM.
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  2. #27
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    But we KNOW that the OE Spec Kendas are so lightly constructed that they really NEED that 27-30 psi in them to support the loads imposed by our Spyders, and that even WITH that amount of air in there, the tread layers still 'balloon' out at speed so that the tread rapidly wears in the middle couple of inches, cos that's all that's touching the road.
    How much do you speculate the steel plies will mitigate that tendency? I think it should help.

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  3. #28
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    It might IdahoMS, but until we can access all that other info, or SEE the empirical results of running them for some thousands of miles in actual use, then it's really all just speculation.....
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  4. #29
    Active Member HankD's Avatar
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    Well, something changed because the max. psi at the same load increased 47% from 30 to 44 psi. The only choice I have with installers in my area is the new Kanines or the old spec Kenda's. I decided to at least give the new ones a shot. I only got about 9,000 miles on my OE rear tire before the center wore out, so I don't have much to lose.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdahoMtnSpyder View Post
    These tires were discussed in another thread just about a week or 2 ago. Don't know offhand if there was different info in that thread or if most all the pertinent info is repeated below. Sorry, I'm too disinterested to bother to find the other thread!
    Here's that other thread; the first mention of the Kanine tire is in post #5. There's also some helpful info in post #41.
    Last edited by Gekko; 01-21-2020 at 10:48 PM. Reason: Added last sentence.
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  6. #31
    Very Active Member IdahoMtnSpyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
    Here's that other thread; the first mention of the Kanine tire is in post #5. There's also some helpful info in post #41.
    My memory is shot! That thread was 2 months ago, not 2 weeks ago!

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  7. #32
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  8. #33
    Very Active Member eddieshep999's Avatar
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    Let’s hope they don’t suffer from the problem BRP had when they used Kenda Softer compound tyres and Riders found they worn down within 5,000 miles
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  9. #34
    aka: akspyderman ARtraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddieshep999 View Post
    Let’s hope they don’t suffer from the problem BRP had when they used Kenda Softer compound tyres and Riders found they worn down within 5,000 miles
    I remember that from 2014 when I bought my new 2014 RT-S. I got 8,400 miles out of the soft compound on the rear tire.

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    Previously : 2008 GS-SM5 (silver), 2009 RS-SE5 (red), 2010 RT-S Premier Editon #474 (black) 2011 RT A&C SE5 (magnesium). 6 Spyders, 11 years, 156,205 miles


  10. #35
    Very Active Member chris56's Avatar
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    not really a good tire .. in Europe it gets only a "C" label in the rain, maybe the built a special version now ??
    its some years old, they have also this version for the Rykers (rear) ..

    https://www.performanceplustire.com/...a:kenda-tires/
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  11. #36
    Very Active Member jcthorne's Avatar
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    I see two specifications on the Kanine side wall that concern me enough that they will NOT go on my bikes.

    KENDA

    Made In China

    Far too much history of very poor quality. This could be the first truly great tire to come out of China and Kenda, but I am not gettting suckered into handing them money until its proven. That will take more years than I have left in riding. It took that many for them to develop the truly awful reputation they currently have. My bikes and my customers deserve better. Top tier, Made in USA tires. Chinese Kenda's need not apply.

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  12. #37
    Very Active Member h0gr1der's Avatar
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    OK fellers, help me out. I went through this process and it seems to work (for me), but I'd like confirmation from the folks who actually are in the know. Determining inflation pressures from a blind start. I used the footprint test, tire pressure increase, and finally a tire pyrometer. I read many times the air supports the weight, not the tire. I take that to mean correct inflation pressure. Doing the footprint test first gets you in the ballpark, I.E. the range of pressures in which the total width of the tread is on the ground is the usable inflation pressures as determined by either wetting or chalking your tire and rolling it on smooth concrete and measuring the width of the footprint with the bike fully laden. Start high, lower the pressures and repeat until you have the max and min pressure that all the tread is on the ground. Ride hard for 1 hour and check pressures. 4 PSI or more means under-inflated, very little pressure increase means (possibly) over-inflated. Last ride hard and use a tire pyrometer to verify (quickly) the tire tread temperature is even all the way across. The range of proper pressures can be (for me) as low as 14 PSI front all the way up to close to 26 PSI front (car tires). Between those pressures my Spyder had all the tread down, and all the temperatures were even. I chose a lower pressure because comfort, and tires plump up when running. What do you guys think?
    h0gr1der
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  13. #38
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h0gr1der View Post
    OK fellers, help me out. I went through this process and it seems to work (for me), but I'd like confirmation from the folks who actually are in the know. Determining inflation pressures from a blind start. I used the footprint test, tire pressure increase, and finally a tire pyrometer. I read many times the air supports the weight, not the tire. I take that to mean correct inflation pressure. Doing the footprint test first gets you in the ballpark, I.E. the range of pressures in which the total width of the tread is on the ground is the usable inflation pressures as determined by either wetting or chalking your tire and rolling it on smooth concrete and measuring the width of the footprint with the bike fully laden. Start high, lower the pressures and repeat until you have the max and min pressure that all the tread is on the ground. Ride hard for 1 hour and check pressures. 4 PSI or more means under-inflated, very little pressure increase means (possibly) over-inflated. Last ride hard and use a tire pyrometer to verify (quickly) the tire tread temperature is even all the way across. The range of proper pressures can be (for me) as low as 14 PSI front all the way up to close to 26 PSI front (car tires). Between those pressures my Spyder had all the tread down, and all the temperatures were even. I chose a lower pressure because comfort, and tires plump up when running. What do you guys think?
    Everything you have concerns about ( using auto tires ) has been pretty much determined and tested …. If you want to repeat everything - have fun .... I'm fairly confident if done correctly you will reach the same conclusions ….. IMHO if you aren't involved in Racing - Darn close is close enough …. you said " air supports the weight, not the tire " if you mean - tire as in sidewall construction, then I dis-agree …. It's a combination of both …. have fun, good luck ….me I'm going Skiing …… Mike

  14. #39
    Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie Peter Aawen's Avatar
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    If you're using the '4psi Rule', set your cold start pressure & ride for an hour, then check again. An increase of MORE than 4psi means your cold start pressure was too LOW; an increase of LESS than 4psi means your cold start pressure was too HIGH; so an increase of 4psi is the 'ideal' target to aim for.

    But there are some things to remember - it's a 'Rule of Thumb', so it's not necessarily or specifically exact, but for most, it IS reliable, repeatable, and reasonably close for the majority of circumstances; a tire pressure gauge that's consistent is better than one that's questionably or occasionally exactly accurate; and adjusting your tire pressure is not the only way of getting closer to achieving the ideal 4psi increase - briefly, you could consider adjusting your avg speed just a little, that can make a big change in tire temps & therefore in tire pressure; cornering, braking, and generaly just ryding harder or gentler can do the same; reducing or increasing the load on the tire can make a significant difference; and ambient temps, road surface temps, & road conditions (wet, dry, or anywhere in between) can make a difference! So you don't need to become a slave to checking tire pressures, but if you do check them regularly for a few weeks initially, just to work out what YOUR ryding/driving does to your pressures, most will get pretty good at 'guesstimating' something pretty close to the pressure that'll give them that 'ideal 4psi increase' given what they are going to be doing today in today's conditions with today's load, and checking that you've got it fairly close to right every now & then is usually going to be enough. A TPMS can help make it easier to do that checking more often if you wish.

    Just beware of getting too invested in keeping your tire pressures at exactly the 4psi above your cold start pressure - you're meant to be ryding safely & enjoyably, not sweating over getting your tire pressures exact for every circumstance &/or ryde!! Like Mike said above, there's been a lot of miles of testing & confirming, and many have done this often enough to confirm that for most running car tires as opposed to the OE Spec & differently constructed Kendas, there's just not that great a variation in the 'ideal pressure' from what's been recommended often, here & elsewhere. Still, even just checking your cold start pressures once a week and confirming that you're in the '4psi increase' ball-park once every half a dozen or even every dozen rydes is going to be much better than doing nothing, or just adhering to the (still better than nothing) tire placard 'one pressure fits all uses & circumstances' pressure, but if you do check for that 4psi increase about that regularly you'll probably see and feel the dividends in better ryde, handling, & tire wear, et al. Enjoy, but please, don't obsess!!

    Ride More, Worry Less!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-22-2020 at 05:27 PM.
    2013 RT Ltd

  15. #40
    Active Member HankD's Avatar
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    The above is very helpful to me. I will get the dealer to install the new rear Kenda Kanine and have them set it at 30 psi. I then drive about an hour home and recheck the tire pressure. Somewhere around 34 and I'm hopefully good, Lower than 34 and I adjust down in pressure a bit after the tire cools down, and higher than 34 and I add some air and repeat until I get it dialed in a bit. Then I forget about it for awhile and enjoy the bike.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Peter Aawen; 01-24-2020 at 11:13 AM. Reason: More than 4psi = too LOW, add air pressure! Less than 4psi = too HIGH, lower air pressure.

  16. #41
    Very Active Member Peteoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUEKNIGHT911 View Post
    Until the Actual specs are posted for this tire …. I will reserve judgement ….. guessing about this or anything else is a big mistake …… Mike
    Have a look at post#8, Mike and Peter A. The spec of concern for me is - Tread plies = 3. Sidewall plies =1. Same sidewall as current. I have zero interest in price (within reason) or increased mileage. What I want is a tyre that is easily balanced, feels secure under you (my original Kendas certainly didn’t), and will be fitted by a CanAm shop. Not much to ask, surely ?

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  17. #42
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    I read and re-read all these posts on tyres, and yet I don't have all the dramas with tyres which I read about:

    I have had my F3T for 2 years, still have original tyres. I have covered 13,000 kms. I ride twice a week, usually on roughish country roads and some freeway riding. Highest speed I have done on my F3 is 135kms/hr. Usually speeds are 90 -100kms/hr on rough country roads. My front tyres look new, my rear is starting to show wear in the middle, but not bad. I run pressures exactly as directed in the owners manual. Handling is very good (did a realignment when new). No worries at all.

    What am I doing wrong?

    (2 wheel rider for around 64 years)

  18. #43
    Very Active Member Peteoz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BazF View Post
    I read and re-read all these posts on tyres, and yet I don't have all the dramas with tyres which I read about:

    I have had my F3T for 2 years, still have original tyres. I have covered 13,000 kms. I ride twice a week, usually on roughish country roads and some freeway riding. Highest speed I have done on my F3 is 135kms/hr. Usually speeds are 90 -100kms/hr on rough country roads. My front tyres look new, my rear is starting to show wear in the middle, but not bad. I run pressures exactly as directed in the owners manual. Handling is very good (did a realignment when new). No worries at all.

    What am I doing wrong?

    (2 wheel rider for around 64 years)
    If your Kendas feel stable and are doing what you want, that’s great, Baz. For me, the Kendas felt unstable, which was cured by their replacement with Kuhmo, which feel particularly stable to me.

    Pete
    Harrington, Australia

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  19. #44
    Active Member HankD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BazF View Post
    I read and re-read all these posts on tyres, and yet I don't have all the dramas with tyres which I read about:

    I have had my F3T for 2 years, still have original tyres. I have covered 13,000 kms. I ride twice a week, usually on roughish country roads and some freeway riding. Highest speed I have done on my F3 is 135kms/hr. Usually speeds are 90 -100kms/hr on rough country roads. My front tyres look new, my rear is starting to show wear in the middle, but not bad. I run pressures exactly as directed in the owners manual. Handling is very good (did a realignment when new). No worries at all.

    What am I doing wrong?

    (2 wheel rider for around 64 years)
    There are 2 subjects that always generate a lot of input on this forum...Tires, and Oil

    I have had my spyder for 3 years and have no particular problem with the stock Kenda's that came on it, other than I would like to have gotten more than 9,000 miles out of the rear. The fronts still have a ways to go before I need to change them out. But, I'm a pretty aggressive rider. I have never felt "unsafe" with the kenda's. I've been doing 2 wheel riding for about 30 years and I think I would probably notice if I felt something unsafe in the tires/traction on the trike.

    But, people have strong opinions on this subject.

    If I could experiment I would....but installers within a reasonable distance from me will only do Kenda's. That's the way many dealers in the USA operate. So, I will try the new model Kenda Kanine and report on my findings.

  20. #45
    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    Until such time as Spyder riders verify through many thousands of miles that the Kanines are better than the automobile tires I have on my roadster I'm in jc's camp.
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  21. #46
    Very Active Member h0gr1der's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Aawen View Post
    If you're using the '4psi Rule', set your cold start pressure & ride for an hour, then check again. An increase of MORE than 4psi means your cold start pressure was too LOW; an increase of LESS than 4psi means your cold start pressure was too HIGH; so an increase of 4psi is the 'ideal' target to aim for.

    But there are some things to remember - it's a 'Rule of Thumb', so it's not necessarily or specifically exact, but for most, it IS reliable, repeatable, and reasonably close for the majority of circumstances; a tire pressure gauge that's consistent is better than one that's questionably or occasionally exactly accurate; and adjusting your tire pressure is not the only way of getting closer to achieving the ideal 4psi increase - briefly, you could consider adjusting your avg speed just a little, that can make a big change in tire temps & therefore in tire pressure; cornering, braking, and generaly just ryding harder or gentler can do the same; reducing or increasing the load on the tire can make a significant difference; and ambient temps, road surface temps, & road conditions (wet, dry, or anywhere in between) can make a difference! So you don't need to become a slave to checking tire pressures, but if you do check them regularly for a few weeks initially, just to work out what YOUR ryding/driving does to your pressures, most will get pretty good at 'guesstimating' something pretty close to the pressure that'll give them that 'ideal 4psi increase' given what they are going to be doing today in today's conditions with today's load, and checking that you've got it fairly close to right every now & then is usually going to be enough. A TPMS can help make it easier to do that checking more often if you wish.

    Just beware of getting too invested in keeping your tire pressures at exactly the 4psi above your cold start pressure - you're meant to be ryding safely & enjoyably, not sweating over getting your tire pressures exact for every circumstance &/or ryde!! Like Mike said above, there's been a lot of miles of testing & confirming, and many have done this often enough to confirm that for most running car tires as opposed to the OE Spec & differently constructed Kendas, there's just not that great a variation in the 'ideal pressure' from what's been recommended often, here & elsewhere. Still, even just checking your cold start pressures once a week and confirming that you're in the '4psi increase' ball-park once every half a dozen or even every dozen rydes is going to be much better than doing nothing, or just adhering to the (still better than nothing) tire placard 'one pressure fits all uses & circumstances' pressure, but if you do check for that 4psi increase about that regularly you'll probably see and feel the dividends in better ryde, handling, & tire wear, et al. Enjoy, but please, don't obsess!!

    Ride More, Worry Less!
    Mr. Peter,
    One of the reasons I phrased my query as I did was my inability to get 4 PSI on the front tires at any time. At 14 PSI I only saw about 1.5 - 2 PSI increase. Below 14 PSI the sidewall began widening the tread footprint test, so I couldn't go lower. Hence the tire tread pyrometer method. I got 4 PSI on the drive tire at 18 PSI, and everything else was in the normal range, but I suspect the front tires are too lightly loaded to gain 4 PSI. My opinion only.
    h0gr1der
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  22. #47
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peteoz View Post
    Have a look at post#8, Mike and Peter A. The spec of concern for me is - Tread plies = 3. Sidewall plies =1. Same sidewall as current. I have zero interest in price (within reason) or increased mileage. What I want is a tyre that is easily balanced, feels secure under you (my original Kendas certainly didn’t), and will be fitted by a CanAm shop. Not much to ask, surely ?

    Pete
    I noticed the plies for this tire also, and if my memory is correct the former Kenda's also had the same plies ratio ….. HOWEVER the new Kanine has swapped one the Polyester Tread plies for one of STEEL. Generally speaking a steel ply should make the tread a bit more stiff & I believe stable.... all steel belts/ply's are not necessarily equal, so there could be NO change in stiffness ….. actual physical testing will shed more light on this .…. personally I would LOVE to see the Kanine tire improve to the point of coming markedly closer to that of any Auto tire, …. I am not confident that the one ply poly sidewall is any better than the original, the sidewall strength has more to do with stability than the tread composition …… Wow I can't believe I typed this much ...…… Mike

  23. #48
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BazF View Post
    I read and re-read all these posts on tyres, and yet I don't have all the dramas with tyres which I read about:

    I have had my F3T for 2 years, still have original tyres. I have covered 13,000 kms. I ride twice a week, usually on roughish country roads and some freeway riding. Highest speed I have done on my F3 is 135kms/hr. Usually speeds are 90 -100kms/hr on rough country roads. My front tyres look new, my rear is starting to show wear in the middle, but not bad. I run pressures exactly as directed in the owners manual. Handling is very good (did a realignment when new). No worries at all.

    What am I doing wrong?

    (2 wheel rider for around 64 years)
    You aren't doing anything wrong ….. Although I have always stated the Kenda's are weak in their construction and don't recommend re-placing them with another Kenda or worse an Arachnid …. I have also said Kenda's on the FRONT can give somewhat satisfactory performance IF the are properly Balanced and the ALIGNMENT is 98 to 100% Perfect ….. There is nothing that can be done to correct the rear tire wear issue - NOTHING , it has all be tried without changing them ….. good luck … Mike

  24. #49
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HankD View Post
    There are 2 subjects that always generate a lot of input on this forum...Tires, and Oil

    I have had my spyder for 3 years and have no particular problem with the stock Kenda's that came on it, other than I would like to have gotten more than 9,000 miles out of the rear. The fronts still have a ways to go before I need to change them out. But, I'm a pretty aggressive rider. I have never felt "unsafe" with the kenda's. I've been doing 2 wheel riding for about 30 years and I think I would probably notice if I felt something unsafe in the tires/traction on the trike.

    But, people have strong opinions on this subject.

    If I could experiment I would....but installers within a reasonable distance from me will only do Kenda's. That's the way many dealers in the USA operate. So, I will try the new model Kenda Kanine and report on my findings.
    Your experience with Your Kenda's fall into the 70% category …. so you are fortunate ….. however 100 plus forum members have reported that " their Kenda's were defective " when NEW …. couldn't machine balance , tread and or ply separation, out of round …. among some of the issues … In my 60 years of dealing with tires, the Kenda's for Spyders have the highest " DEFECT " rate of any tire I know of ….. good luck …. Mike

  25. #50
    Very Active Member BLUEKNIGHT911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HankD View Post
    There are 2 subjects that always generate a lot of input on this forum...Tires, and Oil

    I have had my spyder for 3 years and have no particular problem with the stock Kenda's that came on it, other than I would like to have gotten more than 9,000 miles out of the rear. The fronts still have a ways to go before I need to change them out. But, I'm a pretty aggressive rider. I have never felt "unsafe" with the kenda's. I've been doing 2 wheel riding for about 30 years and I think I would probably notice if I felt something unsafe in the tires/traction on the trike.

    But, people have strong opinions on this subject.

    If I could experiment I would....but installers within a reasonable distance from me will only do Kenda's. That's the way many dealers in the USA operate. So, I will try the new model Kenda Kanine and report on my findings.
    ???? … how far are you from " SpyderPops " …… He can help you out …. Mike

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