-
Laser Schmaser ?
I have a 2010 RT with 17,000 M.
I am prepared to be corrected, so don't hold back.
As I understand it, the Spyder front end alignment is for "toe in" only. There is no adjustment for caster or camber. Correct ?
If this is correct, I do not understand the big deal about a laser front end alignment.
Does this just use a laser measuring device in lieu of a ruler ?
If this is the case, I would really question the necessity of a laser.
If "toe in" specs are available it would seem to me that it could be done with a ruler.
I am not a Luddite, but I don't like being snookered either.
I have heard the advertisements for high tech laser back surgery. I understand that the only difference is that the incision is made with a laser instead of a scalpel.
It sounds impressive though.
-
Very Active Member
I think you are overlooking the part where it is all in relation to the rear wheel.
-
Very Active Member
Correct no caster or camber …. but you forgot " Toe - out " ….. Yes it can be done manually, but a bit difficult …. If your " toe " is way off, the tire wear will be affected … sometimes minor - sometimes Major …. when a bad wear pattern starts - it ruins the tires, and pretty much correcting alignment won't save the tires. …. It is well reported here that the OEM - BRP alignment is usually OFF, my 2011 RSS wore evenly, but that was the exception ….. good luck …. Mike …. PS, I've had mine re-checked a few times and the alignment was still good.
-
Very Active Member
Sort of. Castor is not adjustable. Camber technically is not adjustable. Toe is adjustable.
I believe toe specs are published in the manuals, however they are expressed in degrees, not a linear dimension.
You certainly can align the wheels without a laser setup. Be aware though you may need to null the steering electronics to prevent other problems.
-
Number one; lasers are used because it's very difficult to get a measurement across the Spyder, physically, that is. The super-duper laser alignment attempts to get the chassis and all three wheels kinda neutrally aligned. Probably impossible unless you're very lucky and your rear wheel lines up with the chassis just as the belt runs true on the sprockets - not very likely. It sounds good but as soon as you drive along a road with a camber (most roads) the bike runs down the camber and you steer to counter that so the whole kaboosh runs out of line anyway.
However, plenty of Spyders appear to have poorly aligned front wheels in relation to toe-in so getting that sorted is a good thing. Since you've got a 2010RT, the steering tie-rods are very flimsy and flex under cornering loads, if you have the wherewithal to address that, you'll find your steering and general handling is much improved. They also flex on the 1330 but they're a little better but the front suspension is rubber bushed anyway so is a bit wooly.
3mm toe-in measured at the wheel rim isn't a bad place to start.
-
Thanks to all for good input and for not beating me up.
PinkRosePetal,
3mm toe-in measured at the wheel rim isn't a bad place to start.
Front edge of rim to edge of rim 3mm narrower than rear edge of rim to edge of rim and squared with centerline of rear rim ?
I live by your rule # 1 and have used that line for most of my life.
-
Originally Posted by 12tree
PinkRosePetal,
3mm toe-in measured at the wheel rim isn't a bad place to start.
Front edge of rim to edge of rim 3mm narrower than rear edge of rim to edge of rim and squared with centerline of rear rim ?
Yup, 3mm narrower at the front of the wheel rim compared to the rear. You have 12" wheels so that gives you a tad more toe than it would on a 1330 with 13" rims. The front suspension has a certain amount of bump steer so your weight and the load in the front trunk will have a wee effect on the actual toe setting once you're riding.
I live by your rule # 1 and have used that line for most of my life.
Good call, you might find you need it here too...
-
Originally Posted by 12tree
I have a 2010 RT with 17,000 M. I am prepared to be corrected, so don't hold back.
As I understand it, the Spyder front end alignment is for "toe in" only. There is no adjustment for caster or camber. Correct? CORRECT
If this is correct, I do not understand the big deal about a laser front end alignment; does this just use a laser measuring device in lieu of a ruler? YES
If this is the case, I would really question the necessity of a laser.
Laser alignment is not necessary, but some people prefer having someone knowledgeable align their Spyder and those folks use a laser assisted system.
2014 RTL Platinum
-
Very Active Member
The biggest benefit of the laser is it projects the position of the toe-in well past the front and rear of the Spyder. This will magnify the error and therefore allow you to make a more accurate adjustment.
2011 RTS (Sold to a very nice lady)
1998 Honda Valkyrie
2006 Mustang GT. Varooooom!
US Navy Veteran
SC Law Enforcement Boat Captain
CNC Machine Service Technician
President: Rolling Thunder SC1
Member: Disabled American Veterans, Rock Hill, SC
Member: American Legion
Experience is recognizing the same mistake every time you make it!
-
Very Active Member
If laser alignment systems, for both cages and Spyders, weren't more accurate than older systems dealers and independents wouldn't invest the considerable bucks they cost. The real key is the knowledge and meticulousness of the operator of the system.
Artillery lends dignity to what would
otherwise be a vulgar brawl.
******************************
Cognac 2014 RT-S
-
Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie
Originally Posted by PinkRosePetal
Yup, 3mm narrower at the front of the wheel rim compared to the rear. You have 12" wheels so that gives you a tad more toe than it would on a 1330 with 13" rims. ......
Originally Posted by PinkRosePetal
Yup, 3mm narrower at the front of the wheel rim compared to the rear. You have 14" wheels so that gives you a tad more toe than it would on a 1330 with 15" rims. .........
Probably best to try & get the details right Fixed it for you (in bold) above!
Last edited by Peter Aawen; 12-23-2019 at 05:49 PM.
2013 RT Ltd Pearl White
Ryde More, Worry Less!
-
Very Active Member
-
Airplane, Lesley Nielson ??
-
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by 12tree
Airplane, Lesley Nielson ??
You win!!!!!!!
Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.
2014 RTS in Circuit Yellow, farkle-ing addiction down to once every few months. ECU FLASH IS GREAT.
-
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Peter Aawen
Probably best to try & get the details right Fixed it for you (in bold) above!
????????????? …. did " Lew L " mean " Shirley " ????????? ….. Mike
-
Very Active Member
Since I do all my own work, I built my own laser alignment system, based on plans found here, with some modifications. http://www.lindsayroland.com/spyder/...-DIY-gear.html
-
Originally Posted by Peter Aawen
Probably best to try & get the details right Fixed it for you (in bold) above!
Oops, brain fart, thanks.
-
Very Active Member
I think this is one of those "You don't know what you don't know" situations. The bike may seem OK. But after having a proper alignment suddenly you realize just how much you were fighting the steering control. After having mine aligned by Joe, I could ride almost any road condition using just two fingers on the handlebars. I didn't realize how much I was constantly fighting the steering and the fatigue it produced. A correctly aligned bike is a lot more fun and easier to ride for long periods of time..... Jim
2005 Windveil Blue Premium Mustang Convertible
2008 Honda GL1800/California Sidecar Trike, SOLD
2014 Platinum Silver Satin Spyder RTL, SOLD
Semper Fi
-
Originally Posted by Jetfixer
How do you reset the BUDS?
2014 RTL Platinum
-
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Jetfixer
Does this align to the chassis or to the rear wheel?
2016 F3 Limited
2019 Ryker Rally
2014 Suzuki V Strom 650
2020 CSC TT 250
-
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by Highwayman2013
Does this align to the chassis or to the rear wheel?
I read through the linked info. Seeing they measure from the rear wheel, it appears it may based on the rear rim.
They do a few other things that seem incorrect, but if it is working, then so be it.
-
SpyderLovers Sponsor
Originally Posted by canamjhb
I think this is one of those "You don't know what you don't know" situations. The bike may seem OK. But after having a proper alignment suddenly you realize just how much you were fighting the steering control. After having mine aligned by Joe, I could ride almost any road condition using just two fingers on the handlebars. I didn't realize how much I was constantly fighting the steering and the fatigue it produced. A correctly aligned bike is a lot more fun and easier to ride for long periods of time..... Jim
100%.
In the early days, Lamont & I took several, excruciatingly careful runs at aligning our Spyders. We followed BRP's instructions to the letter. They used the frame as the basis for alignment. It never worked regardless of how accurate and careful we were. That is because the frame is a very inaccurate way to align the front wheels. What you want, after all, is for all 3 wheels to be going in the same direction. When ROLO came out with their product and process for alignment. It really was a 'DUH!' moment for us. It doesn't matter what the frame orientation is. If the rear wheel is fighting (directionally) the front wheels. The Spyder is never going to handle correctly.
The 2 major things that ROLO did was move the base line from the frame to the rear wheel using lasers to magnify (greatly) the error in alignment. The Spyder is so sensitive to alignment, that unless you greatly magnify the error, you just do not have a chance of getting it right. Rulers, tape measures and lines marked on the floor can easily be misaligned. Believe me. It only takes a little bit off and you're wasting your time.
To be sure, the laser equipment is not magic. It still requires an operator that not only knows what they are doing. But are also willing to be meticulous in their adjustment process. A sloppy job is no better with lasers than with any other form of alignment.
The alignment people can tell you that customers come in saying that they are very happy with their current alignment, no issues, runs straight, etc. But just want to get it checked out. (Many purveyors will not charge you if your alignment is within spec.) Only to discover that, indeed, their Spyder is out of spec. And, the customer is then quite surprised at how much better the steering is after getting a correct alignment. It's just another 'Didn't know what I didn't know' moment.
Last edited by BajaRon; 12-24-2019 at 09:30 AM.
Shop Ph: 423-609-7588 (M-F, 8-5, Eastern Time)
Only SLOW people have to leave on time...
-
Very Active Member
Originally Posted by PMK
I read through the linked info. Seeing they measure from the rear wheel, it appears it may based on the rear rim.
They do a few other things that seem incorrect, but if it is working, then so be it.
Just wondering because our 2016 F3L had good alignment between the front wheels but not to the back wheel. It was crabbing slightly.
2016 F3 Limited
2019 Ryker Rally
2014 Suzuki V Strom 650
2020 CSC TT 250
-
Very Active Member
Kaos----- Gone but not forgotten.
2014 RTS in Circuit Yellow, farkle-ing addiction down to once every few months. ECU FLASH IS GREAT.
-
Very Active Member
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts
-
Forum Rules
|