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Thread: Brake failed

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    Active Member ChrisW's Avatar
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    Question Brake failed

    Help, We have a 2014 RT and when we turn off the parking brake the light stays on and it says BRAKE FAILED. What can we do to fix it?


    The Wife's 2014 RTS SE6
    New tires: Back, KUMHO ECSTA 225/50 R15 (24psi) @ 9,380 miles, Fronts, KUMHO SOLUS KH16 175/55 R15 (20 psi) @ 9,421 miles

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    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    With the key on and the brake failed message on the screen. Press mode, set and turn cancel buttons all at the same time. Some 5 digit codes will appear on the screen. Write them down or take a picture. Post here and someone will point you in the right direction.

    2018 F3 LIMITED

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    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    When you turn off the parking brake can you move the Spyder? If yes, check the brake fluid level, both master cylinder portions remembering that the forward most cap is for the rear brake, rear cap for front brakes. If no, the operator's guide says to have transported to nearest dealer. In that case you will have to manually remove the parking brake cable using a 12 mm open end or small crescent wrench. Loosen the lock nut, the rearmost one you can easily see, by turning it CCW and turn the adjusting nut, the forward and hard to see one, CW to loosen tension on the cable so you can slide it out of its bracket.
    Artillery lends dignity to what would
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    Active Member ChrisW's Avatar
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    My dealer is CRAP here in the Reno area so I need to work on it myself. I just need to know how to remove the right side covers and I may be able to find it.


    The Wife's 2014 RTS SE6
    New tires: Back, KUMHO ECSTA 225/50 R15 (24psi) @ 9,380 miles, Fronts, KUMHO SOLUS KH16 175/55 R15 (20 psi) @ 9,421 miles

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    Active Member ChrisW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBros View Post
    When you turn off the parking brake can you move the Spyder? If yes, check the brake fluid level, both master cylinder portions remembering that the forward most cap is for the rear brake, rear cap for front brakes. If no, the operator's guide says to have transported to nearest dealer. In that case you will have to manually remove the parking brake cable using a 12 mm open end or small crescent wrench. Loosen the lock nut, the rearmost one you can easily see, by turning it CCW and turn the adjusting nut, the forward and hard to see one, CW to loosen tension on the cable so you can slide it out of its bracket.
    When we turn it off the brake is off and we can ride. However the light and Failure Brake comes on sometimes and then it will go off. This sounds like a switch/button that is in contact with that system is a little off of alinement. What do you all think? And how do I remove to right side panels.


    The Wife's 2014 RTS SE6
    New tires: Back, KUMHO ECSTA 225/50 R15 (24psi) @ 9,380 miles, Fronts, KUMHO SOLUS KH16 175/55 R15 (20 psi) @ 9,421 miles

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    Very Active Member Grandpot's Avatar
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    If you were pressing on the brake pedal when releasing the parking brake, the pedal most likely went down further and activated the Low Pressure Switch.

    If you do not have any codes, but still have a brake warning, it is possible the low pressure switch has been activated. There are three switches in the brake circuit. 1. Brake light switch, 2. Hydraulic pressure switch, and 3. Low pressure switch (this is really a limit switch that just senses the pedal has traveled too far). This can be reset by the following procedure.


    After a low pressure switch (LPS) problem has
    been solved, it is necessary to clear the occurred
    fault in the VCM as fo llows:
    1. Turn ignition switch OFF.
    2. Wait 30 seconds.
    3. Turn ignition switch ON.
    rmr2011-086
    www.green-manuals.com
    4. Firmly press brake pedal until you hear a "click"
    from the LPS sw itch or until braking pressure
    reaches 3 500 kPa (508 PSI) .
    NOTE: The 1st click will come from the brake light
    switch. Continue to strongly press pedal to hear
    a 2 nd click. This one will come from the low pressure
    switch. You may not hear the click, just push the pedal real hard.
    5. Turn ignition switch OFF.
    6. Wait 30 seconds.
    7. Turn ignition switch ON.
    8. Validate fault was cleared.

    When I say press the brake pedal down, I mean do it really HARD!
    2011 RTS
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    Experience is recognizing the same mistake every time you make it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW View Post
    This sounds like a switch/button that is in contact with that system is a little off of alinement. What do you all think?
    NO. It sounds VERY much like a coincidence......and the brake fluid is a little low.......and it just looks like it is somehow related to the parking brake.......when it isn't at all.

    Check the brake fluid and add a tablespoon or so even if it looks OK.

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    Very Active Member canamjhb's Avatar
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    I would check brake fluid level first. You will get that warning when the fluid level is only a couple teaspoons low..... Jim
    Platinum Silver Satin 2014 RTL, Driver Backrest. Baha Ron Bar, Elka Shocks, Hiway pegs, Lighted Bump Skid, Centramatic Wheel Balancers, Wide Vu Mirrors, Third Tail/Brake light, Missing Belt Guard, Federal Formoza front and General Altimax rear tires, Squared Away, Mirror turn signals, Vibration Damper, Magnetic Mirrors, Matching RT622 Trailer.....Semper Fi....

    .]

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    Very Active Member pegasus1300's Avatar
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    If you look in your owner's manual it will tell you how to remove the panels and in what order.

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    Paul

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    Active Member ChrisW's Avatar
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    This is what someone said on facebook: "Simple stuff first. Check you brake fluid. The reservoir is under the seat. It must be full full. I mean to the point where it almost runs out the top the sensor in there is very picky about that. Use DOT 4." what do you think?
    Thanks


    The Wife's 2014 RTS SE6
    New tires: Back, KUMHO ECSTA 225/50 R15 (24psi) @ 9,380 miles, Fronts, KUMHO SOLUS KH16 175/55 R15 (20 psi) @ 9,421 miles

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    Very Active Member trikermutha's Avatar
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    Have you done this yet as suggested to see if you have a code stored? Just wondering?

    With the key on and the brake failed message on the screen. Press mode, set and turn cancel buttons all at the same time. Some 5 digit codes will appear on the screen. Write them down or take a picture. Post here and someone will point you in the right direction.

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    Active Member ChrisW's Avatar
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    We tried, there is no light right now and there is no codes showing....


    The Wife's 2014 RTS SE6
    New tires: Back, KUMHO ECSTA 225/50 R15 (24psi) @ 9,380 miles, Fronts, KUMHO SOLUS KH16 175/55 R15 (20 psi) @ 9,421 miles

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    Very Active Member billybovine's Avatar
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    Codes will only show when they are active. That means while the brake failure message is on the screen.

    2018 F3 LIMITED

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    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisW View Post
    ...And how do I remove to right side panels.
    Have you checked the brake fluid level? Please do yourself a favor. First, read the bottom of pg 144 of your operator's guide, Second, see pg. 135 -136 of your guide to see how to check the brake fluid level including the orientation of the vent in the caps which should be at about 11 o'clock, pointing toward the right brake light, if you are standing on the right side of the Spyder, driver's right looking down at the caps. If the vents, a distinctive bulge on the top of the caps, is not pointing at 11 the caps may have losing fluid because of the downward tilt of the master cylinder reservoir and the brake fluid level may be low. If you have to remove panels read pg. 48-52 of your guide; the instructions for all panels are there. If you have to add brake fluid cover the painted Tupperware with impervious material as brake fluid will destroy the paint. You should use something like a teaspoon as the reservoir doesn't hold a lot of fluid and the low level sensor is very sensitive. If you still believe you have to remove panels and know how to use a volt meter, look at post #7 of this link: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...-won-t-Release.
    Artillery lends dignity to what would
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    Cognac 2014 RT-S

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    Very Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    Even though I bought mine new, but as a left over 2017, because of above admonishments to check the brake fluid level, I did that and I was surprised to see murky fluid. In just 2 years, the fluid had absorbed enough atmospheric moisture to darken it - just sitting dormant. This is why you change the brake fluid every 2 years, at least.
    If you remove the cap and can not see clearly the round screen at the bottom of each compartment, change the fluid.
    A short cut, without bleeding, is just suck out the fluid in the reservoir and replace with fresh DOT4.
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RICZ View Post
    A short cut, without bleeding, is just suck out the fluid in the reservoir and replace with fresh DOT4.
    That really is NOT a good option.
    A fair amount of contaminated fluid will be left in.....partly because of the ABS hardware......and if there is any "dirt" present, it has no chance of getting out.

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    Very Active Member RICZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy Rider View Post
    That really is NOT a good option.
    A fair amount of contaminated fluid will be left in.....partly because of the ABS hardware......and if there is any "dirt" present, it has no chance of getting out.
    Understood, but I go on the operating table tomorrow and removing what's in the reservoir and replacing with fresh is better than doing nothing. The fresh fluid will eventually absorb some of the moisture from the fluid that's in the lines.
    Ours is a red, black and chrome 2017 F3 Limited. Bought new in 2/2019. The avatar is my first bike back in 1952, a Simplex Servi-Cycle. Photo taken at the Barber Museum.

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    Active Member ChrisW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBros View Post
    Have you checked the brake fluid level? Please do yourself a favor. First, read the bottom of pg 144 of your operator's guide, Second, see pg. 135 -136 of your guide to see how to check the brake fluid level including the orientation of the vent in the caps which should be at about 11 o'clock, pointing toward the right brake light, if you are standing on the right side of the Spyder, driver's right looking down at the caps. If the vents, a distinctive bulge on the top of the caps, is not pointing at 11 the caps may have losing fluid because of the downward tilt of the master cylinder reservoir and the brake fluid level may be low. If you have to remove panels read pg. 48-52 of your guide; the instructions for all panels are there. If you have to add brake fluid cover the painted Tupperware with impervious material as brake fluid will destroy the paint. You should use something like a teaspoon as the reservoir doesn't hold a lot of fluid and the low level sensor is very sensitive. If you still believe you have to remove panels and know how to use a volt meter, look at post #7 of this link: https://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/...-won-t-Release.
    OK, I am looking at the caps if I am sitting on the bike the vents are pointing to the right handle bar grip, or 1 on a clock. As you said how can they be pointing to 11oclock but at the right tail light?


    The Wife's 2014 RTS SE6
    New tires: Back, KUMHO ECSTA 225/50 R15 (24psi) @ 9,380 miles, Fronts, KUMHO SOLUS KH16 175/55 R15 (20 psi) @ 9,421 miles

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    Active Member ChrisW's Avatar
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    Do you have any pictures of the caps on, as the book is real bad on the picture of the right/wrong way to put the cap back on.


    The Wife's 2014 RTS SE6
    New tires: Back, KUMHO ECSTA 225/50 R15 (24psi) @ 9,380 miles, Fronts, KUMHO SOLUS KH16 175/55 R15 (20 psi) @ 9,421 miles

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    Very Active Member JayBros's Avatar
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    My apology for not being more precise. What I meant to say was stand on the right side of the vehicle. (Left and right are always used in reference to the rider sitting on the Spyder.) So, you're on the throttle side of the Spyder looking to the rear of the machine. If you look down at the master cylinder, in reference to a clock 12 o'clock is facing directly to the rear of the bike. The vent is pointing at 11 o'clock, or in the direction of a line from the center of the cap to the right rear taillight.Master Cylinder Cap.jpg. Now in the picture, the top of the picture faces to the left side of the Spyder. You can see the vent on the cap between the C in the word "CLEAN" and the G in the word "REMOVING." Sorry, I don't detail my master cylinder.

    If the vents are pointing toward the throttle, as you say, they are pointed in the wrong direction and you may have lost brake fluid out of the vent since the master cylinder slopes downward from rear to front. The loss would be very gradual until the level triggered the low fluid sensor. Hope this clarifies things a bit more for you.
    Artillery lends dignity to what would
    otherwise be a vulgar brawl.
    ******************************
    Cognac 2014 RT-S

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    Very Active Member canamjhb's Avatar
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    JayBros..... Thank you for the detail description. Very informative. And, I checked the caps on mine and they are incorrectly installed. The vents are (were) pointing towards my right handlebar (throttle). I should have paid better attention. The entire area around the caps was coated with a lot of gunk. I added about a teaspoon of DOT4 to each. Cleaned and fixed now..... Jim
    Platinum Silver Satin 2014 RTL, Driver Backrest. Baha Ron Bar, Elka Shocks, Hiway pegs, Lighted Bump Skid, Centramatic Wheel Balancers, Wide Vu Mirrors, Third Tail/Brake light, Missing Belt Guard, Federal Formoza front and General Altimax rear tires, Squared Away, Mirror turn signals, Vibration Damper, Magnetic Mirrors, Matching RT622 Trailer.....Semper Fi....

    .]

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    Active Member ChrisW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBros View Post
    My apology for not being more precise. What I meant to say was stand on the right side of the vehicle. (Left and right are always used in reference to the rider sitting on the Spyder.) So, you're on the throttle side of the Spyder looking to the rear of the machine. If you look down at the master cylinder, in reference to a clock 12 o'clock is facing directly to the rear of the bike. The vent is pointing at 11 o'clock, or in the direction of a line from the center of the cap to the right rear taillight.Master Cylinder Cap.jpg. Now in the picture, the top of the picture faces to the left side of the Spyder. You can see the vent on the cap between the C in the word "CLEAN" and the G in the word "REMOVING." Sorry, I don't detail my master cylinder.

    If the vents are pointing toward the throttle, as you say, they are pointed in the wrong direction and you may have lost brake fluid out of the vent since the master cylinder slopes downward from rear to front. The loss would be very gradual until the level triggered the low fluid sensor. Hope this clarifies things a bit more for you.
    Thank you for the rest of the info. I am keeping the clock set from the riding position thus the cap vent part will now be in the 5oclock position pointing towards the right tail light. Will work on the brake fluid today as I need to get a new bottle of DOT-4 first. Thanks to all....


    The Wife's 2014 RTS SE6
    New tires: Back, KUMHO ECSTA 225/50 R15 (24psi) @ 9,380 miles, Fronts, KUMHO SOLUS KH16 175/55 R15 (20 psi) @ 9,421 miles

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    Active Member ChrisW's Avatar
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    I added a little brake fluid in both and put the caps on the right way. Now we just need to go ride it. Thanks to all


    The Wife's 2014 RTS SE6
    New tires: Back, KUMHO ECSTA 225/50 R15 (24psi) @ 9,380 miles, Fronts, KUMHO SOLUS KH16 175/55 R15 (20 psi) @ 9,421 miles

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