Front end alignment/semi rant (Laser aligning is a MUST do)

[zavalza]

But being from CA (Orange County) can somebody point me to this Joe and Ann people to do mine?
I mean are they sponsors on the site so I can get the data from the sponsor page

Thanks in advance

[Gray Ghost]

It's Squared Away and they are sponsors (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/s...Away-Alignment)

[KX5062]

Post some pics when you get the chance, this could be an interesting thread.

Having looked at the parts fish and seeing the commonality in the design for ALL 2008-2014 Sypders, my first impression is this design works but might be susceptible to failure if stressed with the right [side] load?

Jerry

I completely agree. I guess other than for the sake of discussion my point is to have people check their wheel bearings, especially those people who've had alignment issues, or people who are doing the alignments or high milers that carry heavy loads.





Interesting, but All Balls Racing makes aftermarket components for the Can Am ATV's. Their claim is they are upgraded in certain areas. All Balls has a mixed reputation in the motorcycling world, but it does off a different alternative to OEM that MIGHT work.

http://www.allballsracing.com/ymmsea...earchfromhome/

[SpyderAnn01]

But being from CA (Orange County) can somebody point me to this Joe and Ann people to do mine?
I mean are they sponsors on the site so I can get the data from the sponsor page

Thanks in advance

Sent you a private message

[KX5062]

In case anybody is still reading this thread or cares, I received my replacement OEM bearings in the mail. They are made by NSK. They are a Japanese company who make a quality product. The country of origin is unknown. They have factories all around the world, including China, so who knows where they came from originally, but it does appear to be a high quality unit.

[Nils888]

In case anybody is still reading this thread or cares, I received my replacement OEM bearings in the mail. They are made by NSK. They are a Japanese company who make a quality product. The country of origin is unknown. They have factories all around the world, including China, so who knows where they came from originally, but it does appear to be a high quality unit.

Cool!! Are you getting your Alignment next weekend!!

[KX5062]

Cool!! Are you getting your Alignment next weekend!!

That's the plan, assuming BRP comes through with the tie rod.

[KX5062]

Well, over the weekend I took my Spyder to my local indy, who works on motorcycles and quads. He is an ace mechanic and I trust him completely. I don't have the time right now to do the repairs due to work and family stuff, or else I would. However, once I got the Spyder into him and he began the diagnosis, prior to tearing into it, he discovered the upper ball joint went south too.

So, now I'm in a holding pattern waiting for a ball joint to be shipped priority shipping from a mid-west dealer who had them in stock. (Many different dealers did not, so I went with one that was in stock and did immediate shipping.)

[SpyderAnn01]

Well, over the weekend I took my Spyder to my local indy, who works on motorcycles and quads. He is an ace mechanic and I trust him completely. I don't have the time right now to do the repairs due to work and family stuff, or else I would. However, once I got the Spyder into him and he began the diagnosis, prior to tearing into it, he discovered the upper ball joint went south too.

So, now I'm in a holding pattern waiting for a ball joint to be shipped priority shipping from a mid-west dealer who had them in stock. (Many different dealers did not, so I went with one that was in stock and did immediate shipping.)

here is hoping that the ball joints get to you in a day or two. We are planning on coming to your place on Monday the 10th. But we can reschedule for another time if need be.

[Chaser666]

How much is a laser alignment ??

[KX5062]

here is hoping that the ball joints get to you in a day or two. We are planning on coming to your place on Monday the 10th. But we can reschedule for another time if need be.

The ball joint arrived today and the tie rod is due Thursday. So we should be good to go on Monday. Thanks again to both you and Joe!!!!!

[Nils888]

How much is a laser alignment ??

$130.00

[PMK]

Having read this and other posts where some machines have had wheel bearings become worn and even the ball joint, is it viable for an owner / mechanic to pop the dust seals of either in service bearings or say that new bearing and grease it.

I ask, since vehicles I own (dirt bikes, bicycles, automobiles / trucks) with sealed style bearings, I will sometimes clean and regrease, then snap the rubber seal back in place.

As for the ball joint, and I admit being new to Spyders, why are the A arms non adjustable for castor and camber. More though, why do they seem so whippy. You can see the entire front suspension rotate as you stop for a light. Wouldn't a set of front arms similar to this make the handling better?

http://iconvehicledynamics.com/shop/...l-arm-kit.html

Not slamming the machine or handling, it rides good, especially going straight under power, but feels like the rear swingarm flexes along with the front making things less planted. Under hard braking, the toe change is very noticed, possibly with the flexing front arms, making the machine ever so slightly weave / wander left to right.

I do plan to upgrade the shocks. I spoke with Len. Nice guy with excellent knowledge. The Elka 1 series which is all they now offer is probably fine, but my suspension geek inside me has a hard time buying emulsion shocks. I did inquire with Ohlins, but currently they have nothing.

Not a rant or slam, the vehicle does provide the fun as intended. Just sorting it out. What to mod or not mod.

PK

[KX5062]

Instead of pulling things apart there is a needle grease injector. I can't remember the real name right now, I have one. It is like a syringe that snaps onto your zerk style grease gun. It is designed to inject grease through the rubber fittings of ball joints that do not have zerk fittings.

I must note that the ball joint (OEM) I got is not very robust and does not appear to come with much lubricant. The rubber seal is only nominal and does not appear to seal all that well. According to the packaging is made in China, FWIW.

Again, FWIW, IMO the wheel bearings appear to be made to a much better standard than the ball joints. I again looked at the OEM packaging on the bearing and now noted (it was badly smudged) it was made in Brazil for anyone who cares or might be keeping track.

[NancysToy]

Greasing wheel bearings without removing them, cleaning them, inspecting them, and repacking them is a waste of time. It really accomplishes nothing. The old grease ruins the new grease, and the new grease never gets to where it has to go anyway. Overpacking the bearing can make it overheat. If it makes you feel better to squirt grease in there once in a while, do it, but it is of no value otherwise. JMHO

[PMK]

Greasing wheel bearings without removing them, cleaning them, inspecting them, and repacking them is a waste of time. It really accomplishes nothing. The old grease ruins the new grease, and the new grease never gets to where it has to go anyway. Overpacking the bearing can make it overheat. If it makes you feel better to squirt grease in there once in a while, do it, but it is of no value otherwise. JMHO

It all depends...if you remove the rubber seals and clean the old grease out, inspect by ensuring smoothness and no play, then repack from one side until grease flows through to the other side you should be fine. As you replace the rubber seal from the grease application side, it will move grease further across the balls and cage. It never seems to hurt by removing the slight excess to limit a 100% fill, but overall, normally the grease will weep past the seals until the needed amount remains.

The needle tool on a sealed bearing can get grease in, but as was mentioned, the ball bearing still has old grease in it.

Overall, nothing on the chassis has a high rpm where a bearing that is overpacked could overheat or spall.

Sometimes it is just easier to replace and pay the money.

Yes the needles can fill the rubber boot of a ball joint or tie rod end with grease. As mentioned, often it is difficult to get the grease where it is really needed. Never hurts.

PK

[KX5062]

Greasing wheel bearings without removing them, cleaning them, inspecting them, and repacking them is a waste of time. It really accomplishes nothing. The old grease ruins the new grease, and the new grease never gets to where it has to go anyway. Overpacking the bearing can make it overheat. If it makes you feel better to squirt grease in there once in a while, do it, but it is of no value otherwise. JMHO

I was referring to ball joints not wheel bearings.

[KX5062]

The repairs are completed and I must say the ball joints on the ends of the tie rods are not bad quality items, but the ball joints on the "A" arms are not that well made. I can see why a radical misalignment would take one out. There is no wiggle room, they are probably barely adequate under the best circumstances. Oh well...............

Now that the front end is tightened up I can really feel the misalignment. The slop really masked the problem, but now there is no slop it is dramatic. I can't wait for Squared Away (Joe and Anne) to do their thing.

(I do still think the camber angle is off to, but that's another story.)

[SpyderFun]

Greasing wheel bearings without removing them, cleaning them, inspecting them, and repacking them is a waste of time. It really accomplishes nothing. The old grease ruins the new grease, and the new grease never gets to where it has to go anyway. Overpacking the bearing can make it overheat. If it makes you feel better to squirt grease in there once in a while, do it, but it is of no value otherwise. JMHO

in part....

Anytime you can remove, clean and inspect any part according to an approved specification is the BEST way to determine its serviceability and remaining life. However, IMHO, "mixing" old grease with new does little, if no, harm and in-fact is better than operating with minimal grease which can cause premature wear and overheating. FYI...."mixing" here refers to using the same type of grease of the same mfg not the inter-mixing of different types.

FYI INFO ONLY:
There is a way to add "new grease" without removal or disassembly provided there are no seals that can be damaged (not sure if this technique will work on the Spyder). Slowly pump grease into the bearing thru the fitting(s) until you see old grease coming out. Keep pumping (slowly) until you purge all the "old grease" by seeing "new grease" coming out. This procedure has been, and is still, used on aircraft today. Does anyone think the landing gears on a modern aircraft gets removed for "greasing"? NOT A CHANCE! It is also the same technique used when greasing boat trailer wheel bearings to purge the water out of them due to submergence caused by launching and recovery procedures.

[KX5062]

Well to conclude the saga, Joe and Anne did the alignment on my bike and a friend's 2009 GS. Both bikes were tons off. Mine was way off and the rear belt was slightly misaligned too. All fixed.

The 2009 was way off too, but the belt was okay. That one too is SQUARED AWAY!

The difference in both bikes is amazing. It's hard to describe the differences, but they both track straight and true. The corners are smooth and require far less effort. When people say they can't believe it's the same bike, that's no joke. It truly is THAT different.

Joe and Anne you're the best!

If anyone has ANY doubt about this alignment service, DON'T it's the real deal.

Thanks again to Squared Away, Joe and Anne.

[Trooper]

I do plan to upgrade the shocks. I spoke with Len. Nice guy with excellent knowledge. The Elka 1 series which is all they now offer is probably fine, but my suspension geek inside me has a hard time buying emulsion shocks. I did inquire with Ohlins, but currently they have nothing.

PK

If I may, we did look into options to manufacture the shocks to include internel floating pistons, but with the intended use of the vehicle ( pavement ), there was little justification for us to offer such a shock. It would have only increased the price of our products, and our customers were looking for the most cost effective quality products that we could offer.

We do however offer the Stage 5 shocks which have a piggback reservoir with IFP technology and full ajustability....but they are significantly more expensive that our Stage 1 or Stage 1+R style shocks.

Please do not hesitate to contacft me either via these boards or at jilkiw@elkasuspension.com

Regards,

John @ Elka

[PMK]

If I may, we did look into options to manufacture the shocks to include internel floating pistons, but with the intended use of the vehicle ( pavement ), there was little justification for us to offer such a shock. It would have only increased the price of our products, and our customers were looking for the most cost effective quality products that we could offer.

We do however offer the Stage 5 shocks which have a piggback reservoir with IFP technology and full ajustability....but they are significantly more expensive that our Stage 1 or Stage 1+R style shocks.

Please do not hesitate to contacft me either via these boards or at jilkiw@elkasuspension.com

Regards,

John @ Elka

John, thanks for the reply.

I am posting your email reply to me, which is what I used for my a basis for to inquire about other brands. I easily understand the costs involved in performance suspension. It may be cost prohibitive for many to step up to piggybacks with a full set of clickers. No doubt the 1+r, even in emulsion style is a great upgrade from the oem shocks. The value in the performance is no doubt there, as shown by the popularity. I have been working with performance suspension for many years. To me, while the cost is more, I often don't mind and prefer to have the ability to make simple changes with an external adjustment rather than shim stack change.

My wife is new to motorcycles, but not two wheeled vehicles. She has some fears, heights, imagined excessive speed, and on the Spyder, a concern of being "tossed off" in a corner. Her experience on our full suspension tandem Ventana mountain has proven she is a person that knows when suspension is not to her liking, but explains it no more than "it's just not right". With 40 years of working with performance suspension, and 35 plus years having been with my wife since we first met. Her enjoyment of riding and my desire to not be pulling stuff apart to get her a perfect ride via a few clicks make the added expensive viable in our case.

Please note, I am not slamming ELKA, or emulsion shocks. I know ELKA's reputation from outside the Spyder, rest assured I was not mad for ELKA prioritizing their market. We (I) just prefer more. I based my holding off on ELKA from a recent email reply from you. This is a copy and paste reply from you, I placed it in italics to verify no confusion of my words to you words. Thanks and with luck, we will be upgrade to a better suspension sooner than later.

I want to add and clarify also, that so far, my research has ELKA, even with the 1+r emulsion as the only performance shock setup for all three shocks and the only company offering aftermarket production shocks for the later year Spyders. Fox is not per a conversation with them, Ohlins Sweden is not, therefore Ohlins USA is not, I have not called Race Tech yet, but the offering from them is custom built. I did contact ICON Vehicle Dynamics, but they informed me that no new projects at this time since they are doing well with off-road truck suspension.

PK

This is a copy of your email reply to me, it deviates from your post here to some degree.All we have available at this time for the 2014 Spyder is the front Stage 1+ shocks. We have yet to bring in the vehicle in our shop to get confirmation if the rear is the same as the 2013 model, however we have confirmed that the front geometry is identical.

All we have available for the rear of the 2013 is the Stage 1+R as well.

Due to the low demand for the Stage 5 shocks with the 2010-2012 Spyders, we decided to not offer them for the 2013 Spyder.

[Trooper]

John, thanks for the reply.

I am posting your email reply to me, which is what I used for my a basis for to inquire about other brands. I easily understand the costs involved in performance suspension. It may be cost prohibitive for many to step up to piggybacks with a full set of clickers. No doubt the 1+r, even in emulsion style is a great upgrade from the oem shocks. The value in the performance is no doubt there, as shown by the popularity. I have been working with performance suspension for many years. To me, while the cost is more, I often don't mind and prefer to have the ability to make simple changes with an external adjustment rather than shim stack change.

My wife is new to motorcycles, but not two wheeled vehicles. She has some fears, heights, imagined excessive speed, and on the Spyder, a concern of being "tossed off" in a corner. Her experience on our full suspension tandem Ventana mountain has proven she is a person that knows when suspension is not to her liking, but explains it no more than "it's just not right". With 40 years of working with performance suspension, and 35 plus years having been with my wife since we first met. Her enjoyment of riding and my desire to not be pulling stuff apart to get her a perfect ride via a few clicks make the added expensive viable in our case.

Please note, I am not slamming ELKA, or emulsion shocks. I know ELKA's reputation from outside the Spyder, rest assured I was not mad for ELKA prioritizing their market. We (I) just prefer more. I based my holding off on ELKA from a recent email reply from you. This is a copy and paste reply from you, I placed it in italics to verify no confusion of my words to you words. Thanks and with luck, we will be upgrade to a better suspension sooner than later.

I want to add and clarify also, that so far, my research has ELKA, even with the 1+r emulsion as the only performance shock setup for all three shocks and the only company offering aftermarket production shocks for the later year Spyders. Fox is not per a conversation with them, Ohlins Sweden is not, therefore Ohlins USA is not, I have not called Race Tech yet, but the offering from them is custom built. I did contact ICON Vehicle Dynamics, but they informed me that no new projects at this time since they are doing well with off-road truck suspension.

PK

This is a copy of your email reply to me, it deviates from your post here to some degree.All we have available at this time for the 2014 Spyder is the front Stage 1+ shocks. We have yet to bring in the vehicle in our shop to get confirmation if the rear is the same as the 2013 model, however we have confirmed that the front geometry is identical.

All we have available for the rear of the 2013 is the Stage 1+R as well.

Due to the low demand for the Stage 5 shocks with the 2010-2012 Spyders, we decided to not offer them for the 2013 Spyder.

Thank you for your clarification.

I am not sure where my post deviates from my response to your earlier enquiry, as I was not clear on what model or year of Spyder you have, however my earlier response to you still stands. It remains that if there is demand in the market for a Stage 5 shock for the 2013-2014 models, we would be more than happy to do the R&D required to offer them, but according to market research and market demand, there has yet to be reason to justify the time involved to do the development. If you are interested, let me know and I will make inquiries with our R&D department as to the possibility of developing them.

I also ommitted to add to my earlier post that as for an IFP shock, it is not always just a matter of cost, but also a question of available stroke. Inserting an IFP will limit the amount of available stroke that a shock absorber will have, and it is not always possible to offer one. I could go over the specs with the engineers to see if the available stroke is there, and if it is possible I can put a set of IFP Stage 1+ R shocks in production for you if you would like.

[PMK]

Thank you for your clarification.

I am not sure where my post deviates from my response to your earlier enquiry, as I was not clear on what model or year of Spyder you have, however my earlier response to you still stands. It remains that if there is demand in the market for a Stage 5 shock for the 2013-2014 models, we would be more than happy to do the R&D required to offer them, but according to market research and market demand, there has yet to be reason to justify the time involved to do the development. If you are interested, let me know and I will make inquiries with our R&D department as to the possibility of developing them.

I also ommitted to add to my earlier post that as for an IFP shock, it is not always just a matter of cost, but also a question of available stroke. Inserting an IFP will limit the amount of available stroke that a shock absorber will have, and it is not always possible to offer one. I could go over the specs with the engineers to see if the available stroke is there, and if it is possible I can put a set of IFP Stage 1+ R shocks in production for you if you would like.

At the moment I am sitting tight. As we both know, even if an IFP is added, there is still no means of a compression adjuster. So, yes IFP would be a step up from emulsion, but really, all in is rezzy with HSC and LSC.

As for interest, let's see where others would like this to go. I am one small voice.

PK